The Two Faces of the Sabbath

[Ben Avraham]

The Two Faces of the Sabbath

1 - Sabbath by definition covers two concepts: The first as a commandment and the second as a ritual.

2 - The Sabbath as a commandment has been from the beginning meant to all Mankind, Jews and Gentiles alike.

3 - The Sabbath as a ritual is for the Jews only that it may be a sign between HaShem and the Jews that they may know that the Lord is their God. (Ezekiel 20:12,20)

4 - The commandment about the Sabbath is to work six days regardless and rest on the seventh day regardless.

5 - The ritual about the Sabbath is to work six fixed and unchanged days and rest on the Sabbath within an unchanged weekly cycle.

 

[Kemosloby]

How do special Sabbaths, that do not fall on Saturday, work into your definition?

And how does The Sabbath enable someone to know who the Lord is?

because It could be understood another way:

Ezekiel 20:12 Moreover, I gave them my Sabbaths, as a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them

He gave them his Sabbaths so they would know he is the Lord.

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks...

Hmm - as usual Christ saw things quite differently - didnt care about any such "command" - went out of His way to oppose the rabbis ON the sabbath and initiated a confrontation with them on purpose over this very issue, didnt He..???...

For HIM, the "sabbath" has NOTHING to do with that Hebrew god or its commands - so He just flouted their traditions and told them straight they had it all wrong !!! (the Hebrew god is not our Father that He alone reveals - and they dont even know what the legitimate sabbaths purpose or intent is)....

The Jews think the sabbath is all about god and obeying it as a "sacred command" where only the god gets any benefit it seems (indeed most of the so called 10 commandments are aimed at keeping us subserviant to that god, this sabbath just one example) - so they simply down tools once a week and have a break same as their "god" did and to reflect this "command " to obey it always...Christ as usual says it very differently though, in that the sabbath is meant for a time of COMMUNION - of SEEKING the Divine directly...

HE says YES a sabbath - a time SET ASIDE TO COMMUNE WITH SPIRIT DIRECTLY - QUITE ESSENTIAL He says - BUT - that does not mean stop work or sit around doing nothing all day because a so called god commands it....lol.....They have no idea of the purpose or intent...To Thomas He says :

"If you do not fast from the world, you will not find the Father's kingdom. If you do not observe the sabbath as a sabbath you will not see the Father."

Fast from the world - Observe the sabbath AS a sabbath - means stops identifying with all these mortal concerns, rules and regulations traditions etc etc - treat this time as a time of PERSONAL COMMUNION - SEEK the Divine with intent and purpose or you will fail to attain it at all,.....Even in the bible His meaning is clear and yet again we see Him in DIRECT CONFRONTATION with the religious leaders that HE seeks out and inititiates - HE WANTS TO CONFRONT THEM - to show them the errors and to lead them AWAY from that religious malarky entirely !! Gospel of Mark - twisted bible truth, but still in this issue we see His truth clearly :

18 Now John’s disciples and the Pharisees were fasting. Some people came and asked Jesus, “How is it that John’s disciples and the disciples of the Pharisees are fasting, but yours are not?”

19 Jesus answered, “How can the guests of the bridegroom fast while he is with them? They cannot, so long as they have him with them. 20 But the time will come when the bridegroom will be taken from them, and on that day they will fast.

21 “No one sews a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old garment. Otherwise, the new piece will pull away from the old, making the tear worse. 22 And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. Otherwise, the wine will burst the skins, and both the wine and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins.”
2,23 One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and as his disciples walked along, they began to pick some heads of grain. 24 The Pharisees said to him, “Look, why are they doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?”

25 He answered, “Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry and in need? 26 In the days of Abiathar the high priest, he entered the house of God and ate the consecrated bread, which is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions.”

27 Then he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. 28 So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

3,1 Another time Jesus went into the synagogue, and a man with a shriveled hand was there. 2 Some of them were looking for a reason to accuse Jesus, so they watched him closely to see if he would heal him on the Sabbath. 3 Jesus said to the man with the shriveled hand, “Stand up in front of everyone.”

4 Then Jesus asked them, “Which is lawful on the Sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?” But they remained silent.

5 He looked around at them in anger and, deeply distressed at their stubborn hearts, said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” He stretched it out, and his hand was completely restored. 6 Then the Pharisees went out and began to plot with the Herodians how they might kill Jesus.

See what I mean Folks..??..HIS disciples are learning a NEW TRUTH -and they are NOT like the other jews at all !! That is because the Father He alone reveals is not even the Hebrew god and so Christ is telling them to simply come away from that false religion entirely - going out of His way to confront the authority to show its errors in public on purpose....For THIS they will KILL HIM just as it hints at...!!

The SABBATH He said is about the personal direct communion - you will NEED (at first) to set aside a time and place to seek this out - quite essential - to quite literally TRAIN your mind to commune directly and so He says have a LEGITIMATE sabbath by all means it is vital - but this "gods sabbath" - completly BOGUS He is saying - pointless irrelevant - only pertains to the Hebrew god and that religion but is not legitimate spiritual directive so He simply flouted their traditon (as always) and taught this NEW TRUTH in its place....Indeed - my Father - places NO such commands or silly rules and regulations upon us - none at all - my Father that Christ alone reveals is NOT that Hebrew god

The Jews do it backwards - only have a sabbath at all because it is a "command" from that so called god - they obey it as form of honour toward it, but still, remain always SEPERATE and ISOLATED from it always - the god there in heaven and them here on Earth - THEIR sabbath is entirely backwards placing god first as if sabbath was made FOR god to receive "worship" when ACTUALLY the sabbath is for MAN to seek out and encounter the Divine DIRECTLY for the Self....Entirely backward - NOT a time to stand apart from god to obey it to be SEEN to be "holy" by other men - but rather - a time to put all other concerns aside EXCEPT the direct communion spirit to spirit itself...Use the sabbath AS a sabbath - as a chance to attain DIRECT communion He says...

As the jews have it it is entirely a sham and a mockery - as is the entire temple malarky of course - keeping man and "god" SEPERATE with vital priest as middleman intermediary on your behalf - you will NEVER find the truth of our Father that way - avoid man and mans deceptions is what He actually advised - fast from the world - avoid the temple - go alone to seek communion - it is a secret endeavour not a public exercise at all - never that....Same here - the sabbath is not a public religious command by a so called god - but is a time for this personal spiritual seeking - not just one day in seven - but EVERY DAY - continuous moment to moment it should be - and no, every day life does NOT need to stop to achieve this.. At first perhaps it will be a great benefit, but is it not necessity... Cultivate the LIVING Presence as he terms it come to know the truth of spirit legitimately and directly and every day will be a sabbath and the Father will indeed reveal Himself directly...

 

[Kemosloby]

Hi Folks...

Hmm - as usual Christ saw things quite differently - didnt care about any such "command" - went out of His way to oppose the rabbis ON the sabbath and initiated a confrontation with them on purpose over this very issue, didnt He..???...

For HIM, the "sabbath" has NOTHING to do with that Hebrew god or its commands - so He just flouted their traditions and told them straight they had it all wrong !!! (the Hebrew god is not our Father that He alone reveals - and they dont even know what the legitimate sabbaths purpose or intent is)....

The Jews think the sabbath is all about god and obeying it as a "sacred command" where only the god gets any benefit it seems (indeed most of the so called 10 commandments are aimed at keeping us subserviant to that god, this sabbath just one example) - so they simply down tools once a week and have a break same as their "god" did and to reflect this "command " to obey it always...Christ as usual says it very differently though, in that the sabbath is meant for a time of COMMUNION - of SEEKING the Divine directly...

HE says YES a sabbath - a time SET ASIDE TO COMMUNE WITH SPIRIT DIRECTLY - QUITE ESSENTIAL He says - BUT - that does not mean stop work or sit around doing nothing all day because a so called god commands it....lol.....They have no idea of the purpose or intent...To Thomas He says :



Fast from the world - Observe the sabbath AS a sabbath - means stops identifying with all these mortal concerns, rules and regulations traditions etc etc - treat this time as a time of PERSONAL COMMUNION - SEEK the Divine with intent and purpose or you will fail to attain it at all,.....Even in the bible His meaning is clear and yet again we see Him in DIRECT CONFRONTATION with the religious leaders that HE seeks out and inititiates - HE WANTS TO CONFRONT THEM - to show them the errors and to lead them AWAY from that religious malarky entirely !! Gospel of Mark - twisted bible truth, but still in this issue we see His truth clearly :



See what I mean Folks..??..HIS disciples are learning a NEW TRUTH -and they are NOT like the other jews at all !! That is because the Father He alone reveals is not even the Hebrew god and so Christ is telling them to simply come away from that false religion entirely - going out of His way to confront the authority to show its errors in public on purpose....For THIS they will KILL HIM just as it hints at...!!

The SABBATH He said is about the personal direct communion - you will NEED (at first) to set aside a time and place to seek this out - quite essential - to quite literally TRAIN your mind to commune directly and so He says have a LEGITIMATE sabbath by all means it is vital - but this "gods sabbath" - completly BOGUS He is saying - pointless irrelevant - only pertains to the Hebrew god and that religion but is not legitimate spiritual directive so He simply flouted their traditon (as always) and taught this NEW TRUTH in its place....Indeed - my Father - places NO such commands or silly rules and regulations upon us - none at all - my Father that Christ alone reveals is NOT that Hebrew god

The Jews do it backwards - only have a sabbath at all because it is a "command" from that so called god - they obey it as form of honour toward it, but still, remain always SEPERATE and ISOLATED from it always - the god there in heaven and them here on Earth - THEIR sabbath is entirely backwards placing god first as if sabbath was made FOR god to receive "worship" when ACTUALLY the sabbath is for MAN to seek out and encounter the Divine DIRECTLY for the Self....Entirely backward - NOT a time to stand apart from god to obey it to be SEEN to be "holy" by other men - but rather - a time to put all other concerns aside EXCEPT the direct communion spirit to spirit itself...Use the sabbath AS a sabbath - as a chance to attain DIRECT communion He says...

As the jews have it it is entirely a sham and a mockery - as is the entire temple malarky of course - keeping man and "god" SEPERATE with vital priest as middleman intermediary on your behalf - you will NEVER find the truth of our Father that way - avoid man and mans deceptions is what He actually advised - fast from the world - avoid the temple - go alone to seek communion - it is a secret endeavour not a public exercise at all - never that....Same here - the sabbath is not a public religious command by a so called god - but is a time for this personal spiritual seeking - not just one day in seven - but EVERY DAY - continuous moment to moment it should be - and no, every day life does NOT need to stop to achieve this.. At first perhaps it will be a great benefit, but is it not necessity... Cultivate the LIVING Presence as he terms it come to know the truth of spirit legitimately and directly and every day will be a sabbath and the Father will indeed reveal Himself directly...

No, that's not true. Jesus said "The law was not meant to prevent people from doing good" Jesus never broke the law according to that rule.

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks...

Kermosloby; Well - obviously - the rabbis themselves disagree with You - for as it says - because of this the things He says and does, they PLOT TO KILL HIM - so for sure in THEIR mind He must have broke the law quite badly indeed for they sought His death because of the things He did didnt they ?

Make no mistakes here Folks - they are ENEMIES - He is seeking to confront them all the time isnt He..??..ALWAYS reinterpreting, givng NEW teachng - REPLACING the old - telling them to come away from it, HATE your parents DAMN those religious leaders - this is all because their Hebrew god is NOT Our Father that He alone reveals

 

[rosends]

The first premise is invention. Once one starts with an invention, one can come up with any conclusions he wants.

 

[Kemosloby]

Hi Folks...

Kermosloby; Well - obviously - the rabbis themselves disagree with You - for as it says - because of this the things He says and does, they PLOT TO KILL HIM - so for sure in THEIR mind He must have broke the law quite badly indeed for they sought His death because of the things He did didnt they ?

Make no mistakes here Folks - they are ENEMIES - He is seeking to confront them all the time isnt He..??..ALWAYS reinterpreting, givng NEW teachng - REPLACING the old - telling them to come away from it, HATE your parents DAMN those religious leaders - this is all because their Hebrew god is NOT Our Father that He alone reveals

They probably feared Jesus' teachings would upset the status quo. They were content to get fat and rich by the law. Didn't want to hear about this doing good stuff.

 

[Desert Snake]

I think that the 'Sabbath' is different from a straight 'rule'. The reason being, /actually I'm not going to write a dissertation


the Sabbath/Shabbat is an observance with more than one idea, hence is an observance, as opposed to a list of rules. /the rules are situational/, the observance, like many things, is therefore variable.

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks...

Kermosloby; Oh there was a lot more to it than that.... He told them to their faces (bible John) that THEIR god was NOT His Father - told them their god was actually a liar, a murderer and a trickster who was deceiving them all - and in the ORIGINAL gospel of John He then explains EVERYTHING and we see that actually their Hebrew god we call Yhvh, is NOT a god at all - Christ names it as an ANGEL and explains fully how and why this deception has been done to us...

Knowing His background truth we can then look again at the things He says that seem puzzling - things like indeed HATE your parents - DAMN those religious authoirties...WHY is He saying that..??..Quit the temple no more babbling like a pagan - no more bowing down grovelling worshipful prayers to "god" - no more public congregation AT ALL but instead go ALONE into a private room He said - again WHY is he saying such things..???.....Come to bring war a sword and fire He said - brother against brother father against son and to destroy their house so that none may ever rebuild it...WHY is he saying such things..???...

Read the ORIGINAL DISCIPLES GOSPELS - not the twisted bible truth - but the ORIGINAL truth given each face to face directly - see clearly as said - that one we call Yhvh god of the hebrews is NOT the Father legitimate SOURCE of Creation - that one Yhvh is only an Angel - a CREATURE exactly like You and I are...He upset the status quo indeed - destroyed their very foundational truth and showed it to to be a false hood by performing miracles that no priest of Yhvh could ever match - for THESE things they see Him as a direct threat to their power status and authority so plot to silence Him permanantly..THEIR god is NOT Our Father that He alone reveals - they ARE ENEMIES

Syncretic; To the Jews this is indeed a hard and fast - literally SET IN STONE type of RULE - a COMMANDMENT no less..

 

[Kemosloby]

Hi Folks...

Kermosloby; Oh there was a lot more to it than that.... He told them to their faces (bible John) that THEIR god was NOT His Father - told them their god was actually a liar, a murderer and a trickster who was deceiving them all - and in the ORIGINAL gospel of John He then explains EVERYTHING and we see that actually their Hebrew god we call Yhvh, is NOT a god at all - Christ names it as an ANGEL and explains fully how and why this deception has been done to us...

Knowing His background truth we can then look again at the things He says that seem puzzling - things like indeed HATE your parents - DAMN those religious authoirties...WHY is He saying that..??..Quit the temple no more babbling like a pagan - no more bowing down grovelling worshipful prayers to "god" - no more public congregation AT ALL but instead go ALONE into a private room He said - again WHY is he saying such things..???.....Come to bring war a sword and fire He said - brother against brother father against son and to destroy their house so that none may ever rebuild it...WHY is he saying such things..???...

Read the ORIGINAL DISCIPLES GOSPELS - not the twisted bible truth - but the ORIGINAL truth given each face to face directly - see clearly as said - that one we call Yhvh god of the hebrews is NOT the Father legitimate SOURCE of Creation - that one Yhvh is only an Angel - a CREATURE exactly like You and I are...He upset the status quo indeed - destroyed their very foundational truth and showed it to to be a false hood by performing miracles that no priest of Yhvh could ever match - for THESE things they see Him as a direct threat to their power status and authority so plot to silence Him permantly..THIER god is NOT Our Father that He alone reveals - they ARE ENEMIES

No, I think his message was something else.

 

[Desert Snake]

Syncretic; To the Jews this is indeed a hard and fast - literally SET IN STONE type of RULE - a COMMANDMENT no less..

I know what the Sabbath is. In different contexts.
/ that's why I wrote it's situational.

 

[omega2xx]

The Two Faces of the Sabbath

1 - Sabbath by definition covers two concepts: The first as a commandment and the second as a ritual.

2 - The Sabbath as a commandment has been from the beginning meant to all Mankind, Jews and Gentiles alike.

3 - The Sabbath as a ritual is for the Jews only that it may be a sign between HaShem and the Jews that they may know that the Lord is their God. (Ezekiel 20:12,20)

4 - The commandment about the Sabbath is to work six days regardless and rest on the seventh day regardless.

5 - The ritual about the Sabbath is to work six fixed and unchanged days and rest on the Sabbath within an unchanged weekly cycle.

Basically the Sabbath is a sign that we may know and remember what God has done for us---He sanctified us(Ex 31:13) and he freed us from bondage(Deut 5:15).

The 3 requirements for the Sabbath were:

--Remember it. This we do when we meet for worship and praise for what He has done.
--keep it holy. This we do when we worship and praise God for what he had done.
--Don't work. This we do when we stop working for what God has already done for
us---sanctified us and set us free from the bondage of the law.

Gal 5:1 - It was for freedom that Christ has set you free; therefore keep standing firm and do
not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.

There is another interesting thing about the Sabbath, at least for me. In God's original creation, the day after the Sabbath was not the first day of the week, it was the 8th day of creation. IMO, 8 symbolizes resurrection.

Christs rose from the dead on first day after the Sabbath, which originally would be the 8th day. The Bible mentions 8 resurrections: 3 in the O.T., 3 in the N.T. and 3 in acts.

The feat of Tabernacles, which was a celebration of the last wheat harvest, ended on the 8th day. Then everyone took down their temporary shelters and returned to their permanent homes. That is what ambassadors for when they are recalled by the leader of their home country.

When ambassadors for Christ are recalled, they will get the room Jesus went away to prepare for them in God's mansion.

In Jewish theology the day started at evening and ended at sunrise. The first 6 days had an evening and a morning. This is not said of the Sabbath. Therefor the Sabbath ended when their was still light.

In the new heaven there will be no night, God will illumine us and He will reign forever and ever( Rev 22:5).

 

[habiru]

The Two Faces of the Sabbath

1 - Sabbath by definition covers two concepts: The first as a commandment and the second as a ritual.

2 - The Sabbath as a commandment has been from the beginning meant to all Mankind, Jews and Gentiles alike.

3 - The Sabbath as a ritual is for the Jews only that it may be a sign between HaShem and the Jews that they may know that the Lord is their God. (Ezekiel 20:12,20)

4 - The commandment about the Sabbath is to work six days regardless and rest on the seventh day regardless.

5 - The ritual about the Sabbath is to work six fixed and unchanged days and rest on the Sabbath within an unchanged weekly cycle.

The Sabbath represent the kingdom of God. Where no one has to struggle to survive, a place of rest. On that day, the people must keep it Holy, which means keep it clean from evil. Like no one is not allowed to have evil thoughts against anyone and free from evil acts. But only on that day, we are supposed to have communion with God, only our minds are to be focus on Him, but not on earthly things, like food , drinks and sexual desires. But all eyes on Him. But that is impossible for us to put all of our heart and soul focusing only on Him. But at the resurrection, that is how it will be, that. all of our minds will be only on Him on that day. Not even on what our enemies has done to us in the past. But we are to practiced on being Holy. Preparing ourselves how it will be. First there is the weekly Sabbath. But then we move onto practicing the other Sabbaths until the most high Sabbath. that Sabbath takes a lot of faith to practiced it. The Hebrews were the only ones that had practiced that Sabbath while they were in Egypt. For seven years they did not do any work but only depended on God. No one were arguing or fighting during that period.
But when Jesus had came. He came that it was another High Sabbath. But instead of forgiven Him, they has forgiven the wicked, Barabbas over the innocent.
And now it is another High Sabbath. But Obama has pardon some people that were major illegal gun dealers and drugs dealers. but he did not pardon Eric Snowden and or Chelsea Manning or Julian Assange. it is okay to forgive the wicked, but he have only has forgiven them, but not the innocent.
I believes that God has separated the parties on purpose. So that all of the people will not have to suffer on the account of a crooked king. And so those that stands under Obama, will be judge by his actions. And those that are under President Trump will be judge with Him as well. I guess He is separating the wheat from the chaff, and the chaff will be thrown away.


Proverbs 17:15 Acquitting the guilty and condemning the innocent— the Lord detests them both.

Psalm 94:21 The wicked band together against the righteous and condemn the innocent to death.

Isaiah 5:23 who acquit the guilty for a bribe, but deny justice to the innocent.

Exodus 32:26 So he stood at the entrance to the camp and said, “Whoever is for the Lord, come to me.” And all the Levites rallied to him.

1 Kings 18:21 Elijah went before the people and said, “How long will you waver between two opinions? If the Lord is God, follow him; but if Baal is God, follow him.” But the people said nothing.

 

[Ben Avraham]

The Sabbath represent the kingdom of God.
1 Kings 18:21 Elijah went before the people and said, “How long will you waver between two opinions? If the Lord is God, follow him; but if Baal is God, follow him.” But the people said nothing.

Yes Habiru, you posted a very interesting post above but, according to your quote of I Kings 18:21, you too must listen to Elijah's warning to stop waving between two opinions. If the Truth is in the Tanach, follow it! If it is in the NT, stick to it. You cannot straddle this issue for too long. As Elijah gave the ultimatum to the Jews-for-Baal to follow either God or Baal, I give mine to you to follow either Jesus or Paul. The main difference between them is that Jesus warned us to listen to "Moses" aka the Law (Luke 16:29-31) and Paul declared that his followers had been released from the Law. (Romans 7:6) To wave between Jesus and Paul is suggestive to serving two lords, and that's a no no!

 

[Kemosloby]

Yes Habiru, you posted a very interesting post above but, according to your quote of I Kings 18:21, you too must listen to Elijah's warning to stop waving between two opinions. If the Truth is in the Tanach, follow it! If it is in the NT, stick to it. You cannot straddle this issue for too long. As Elijah gave the ultimatum to the Jews-for-Baal to follow either God or Baal, I give mine to you to follow either Jesus or Paul. The main difference between them is that Jesus warned us to listen to "Moses" aka the Law (Luke 16:29-31) and Paul declared that his followers had been released from the Law. (Romans 7:6) To wave between Jesus and Paul is suggestive to serving two lords, and that's a no no!

I'm beginning to "get" what Paul is saying. Christians are not under the law of Moses, but not outside the law of God. Because the promise came before the law of Moses, and to follow Christ is to be heirs according to that promise, not by adherence to a law. Yet to follow Christ is to do what Jesus says, love your neighbor as yourself and love your enemies too, is the whole of the law in a nutshell. But as the Israelites had priests to make sacrifices for them to pay for the sins which the kept doing, So Christians have Christ who was made as a one time sacrifice for sin. Not to say everyone would be saved, since even when the Israelites had priests to make atonements for their sins, some, the rebellious, perished. swallowed up by the earth.

 

[Ben Avraham]

Basically the Sabbath is a sign that we may know and remember what God has done for us---He sanctified us(Ex 31:13) and he freed us from bondage(Deut 5:15).

Indeed, HaShem sanctified us by giving us the Law; then, it is only obvious that He would not remove the Law that by which we have sought for holiness. The bondage He has freed us from is the bondage of sin and slavery.

The 3 requirements for the Sabbath were: --Remember it. This we do when we meet for worship and praise for what He has done. --keep it holy. This we do when we worship and praise God for what he had done. --Don't work. This we do when we stop working for what God has already done for us---sanctified us and set us free from the bondage of the law.

If HaShem has set us free from the bondage of the Law, how do you know it and Jesus didn't? So, there is no other option that you are wrong and not Jesus who warned us to listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31)

Gal 5:1 - It was for freedom that Christ has set you free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.

Again, if it was for freedom from the Law that Jesus set us free, why would he demand that we listen to "Moses" aka the Law? As I see, you are raising a barrier between Jesus and the rest of us by contradicting him.

There is another interesting thing about the Sabbath, at least for me. In God's original creation, the day after the Sabbath was not the first day of the week, it was the 8th day of creation. IMO, 8 symbolizes resurrection.

You are again contradicting Jesus because, as a Jew, he understood the prophets well enough to believe that once dead, no one will ever return from the grave. (II Samuel 12:23; Psalm 49:12,20; Isaiah 26:14; Job 7:9) So, nothing could symbolize bodily resurrection in the Tanach aka the gospel of Jesus.

Christs rose from the dead on first day after the Sabbath, which originally would be the 8th day. The Bible mentions 8 resurrections: 3 in the O.T., 3 in the N.T. and 3 in acts.

I would be happy if you shared with me the 3 ones from the Tanach. Would you please?

In Jewish theology the day started at evening and ended at sunrise. The first 6 days had an evening and a morning. This is not said of the Sabbath. Therefor the Sabbath ended when their was still light.

Sorry but, I disagree with you. In Jewish Theology the day starts at evening and ends only at sunset of the next day. Don't forget that our day also has 24 hours. You must have learned this one with a "Jew-for-Baal" Send him to Elijah and he will take him down to the Valley of Kishon for some treatment. (I Kings 18:40)

In the new heaven there will be no night, God will illumine us and He will reign forever and ever( Rev 22:5).

You have got to go metaphorical with that one. It can by no means be literal.[/quote]

 

[Ben Avraham]

I'm beginning to "get" what Paul is saying. Christians are not under the law of Moses, but not outside the law of God. Because the promise came before the law of Moses, and to follow Christ is to be heirs according to that promise, not by adherence to a law. Yet to follow Christ is to do what Jesus says, love your neighbor as yourself and love your enemies too, is the whole of the law in a nutshell. But as the Israelites had priests to make sacrifices for them to pay for the sins which the kept doing, So Christians have Christ who was made as a one time sacrifice for sin. Not to say everyone would be saved, since even when the Israelites had priests to make atonements for their sins, some, the rebellious, perished. swallowed up by the earth.

The Law of Moses and the Law of God are under the same definition except for the rituals. If HaShem gave us His Law with the condition that we did not adhered to it, what did He do? The answer is in the whole chapter 119 of Psalms. Even Jesus explained how to observe the Law by listening to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31) The ritual of the sacrifices had nothing to do with paying for our sins. Even Jeremiah said that HaShem never commanded that sacrifices be part of the religion of Israel. (Jeremiah 7:22) Jesus was not sacrificed for our sins because, according to Ezekiel 18:3,20, no one can die for the sins of another but for his own sins.

 

[Kemosloby]

The Law of Moses and the Law of God are under the same definition except for the rituals. If HaShem gave us His Law with the condition that we did not adhered to it, what did He do? The answer is in the whole chapter 119 of Psalms. Even Jesus explained how to observe the Law by listening to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31) The ritual of the sacrifices had nothing to do with paying for our sins. Even Jeremiah said that HaShem never commanded that sacrifices be part of the religion of Israel. (Jeremiah 7:22) Jesus was not sacrificed for our sins because, according to Ezekiel 18:3,20, no one can die for the sins of another but for his own sins.

How do you spin the term "sin offering" and the animals slaughtered for them?

 

[Ben Avraham]

Hi Folks...

Kermosloby; Well - obviously - the rabbis themselves disagree with You - for as it says - because of this the things He says and does, they PLOT TO KILL HIM - so for sure in THEIR mind He must have broke the law quite badly indeed for they sought His death because of the things He did didnt they ?

Make no mistakes here Folks - they are ENEMIES - He is seeking to confront them all the time isnt He..??..ALWAYS reinterpreting, givng NEW teachng - REPLACING the old - telling them to come away from it, HATE your parents DAMN those religious leaders - this is all because their Hebrew god is NOT Our Father that He alone reveals

No Pete, the Jewish authorities were not Jesus' enemies. Rather the opposite is true. Enemies don't care to save one another from being arrested. When Herod had sent his men to arrest Jesus, the Jewish authorities found out and revealed the secret to Jesus so that he could escape arrest. Jesus did as they bid and was saved. The second time around was in Jerusalem. Jesus' disciples were acclaiming him king of the Jews in Jerusalem and the Jewish authorities warned him to stop his disciples but this time Jesus seemed to be enjoying his parade as he said if they stopped, the stones would cry out. (Luke 19:37-40) Soon later, Jesus was arrested, brought to Pilate and taken to the cross under the political charge of insurrection as king of the Jews. Hence his verdict commanded by Pilate to be nailed on the top of his cross: INRI. I hate what Pilate did but, at least he was honest enough to confess the case as his doing but, it didn't help. The anti-Jewish elements to this day still accuse the Jews with having killed Jesus.

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

ben Avraham; Ah my friend - pleas realise here - all that you say above is taken from the RELIGION yes - it is they alone that say these things in the bible - but as said the bible and the religion is merely a TWISTED truth and not the full picture at all...

When Christ speaks directly as recorded by the Disciples in their original tomes - then He is indeed VERY CLEAR - repeatedly tells people to have no part of that religion or its god....DAMN those religious teachers who dont even know this truth He said and even if they did they would not share it freely.....HATE your parents ways and traditions He said.....QUIT the temple - no more useless prayers and rituals - not even a "public worship", avoid that too He said , but seek a SOLITARY and INNER COMMUNION always....HIS truth - truth of Our Father does NOT come from a man or a book Folks - it is bought DIRECTLY to the Soul via the force we now term the Holy Ghost - a very real and legitimate phenomena of DIRECT COMMUNION where no such priest or religion is needed, and indeed such reliance on priest and religion He said was the first most basic error that we make..

He DID tell them directly that their god was NOT A GOD - HE DID tell them directly that THEIR god was a LIAR - a MURDERER - tricking them and deceiving them fully...He DID prove HIS Divine claims by doing MIRACLES that no priest of Yhvh could ever match....And look - check out their HISTORY and see for sure that such things as magik, sorcery healing etc etc are VERY VERY COMMON - well known and accepted by all - except for CHRIST - something about HIM alone, and HIS "magic and sorcery" made Him stand out like a sore thumb as they say and HE ALONE gets all this attention and noteriety, where MANY OTHERS had made similar previous claims without this uproar at all.....The rabbis NEVER act against ANYONE else EXCEPT Yeshua - and that IS because of HIS MIRACLES !!

Add it all up - He clearly DID confront them every chance He got - said openly that He had come expecting this conflict - brother set against brother, father against son etc etc - He DID turn people away from the the temple and its bogus authority in their hundreds - He DID reinterpret and even REPLACE their old traditions and gave an ENTIRELY NEW TEACHING about an entirely new and unknown Divine spirit....There is NO MISTAKE here as He said it all PLAINLY in the ORIGINAL gospels - and as said when we are familiar with their truth then we see WHY HE is saying such things - the Hebrew god is NOT A GOD at all - He says it is an ANGEL - He says it IS a murderer and liar, tricking them all..He says it is entirely bogus claiming a Divine authority it is not entitled too, and THIS is why He is saying and doing the things He does -THIS is why He IS against that god and its religion as simply it is BOGUS, not truly Divine, NOT our Father...

He DID go around telling people all that openly and then PROVING it of course - as said - MIRACLES - that no priest of Yhvh could ever match...He was SUPERIOR to them in every way...Look - first public miracle - He heals a LEPER Folks...Ive said it before but most fail to grasp its significance..A LEPER - was an OUTCAST in the jewish society, yes..??....They are made outcast because the PRIEST says that GOD HAS ABANDONED THEM and so they are beyond healing by the priest at all - they dont even attempt it - shun them and as said make them dirty, outcast people.....Let it sink in deep Folks - highly significant.........

My mate comes along - chooses a leper first - HEALS HIM COMPLETELY - just a touch and a spoken word is all it took - none of that stupid temple nonesense - no prayers rituals begging supplications - no payment - NO SACRIFICE of any shape or form at all - just fully healed by the grace of Christ... Go to the temple He told the leper, you will be my proof of Who Iam - but the leper didnt do as asked - instead runs off to the market and begins to boast - look at me - yesterday Iam outcast leper incurable - today Iam fully healed by THIS man who just touched me and spoke it so, He MUST be the MESSIAH He says and so all the trouble begins !!

See it now from priest perspective....All through - for THOUSANDS of years - they have close intimate DIRECT communication from their god....Not quite the same that Christ now offers - but semi direct communication, done through a Priest or an Angel messenger usually....But look, even this base communication has ALREADY STOPPED when Christ comes among us...When He is born here the god Yhvh had ALREADY been completely silent for over 400 years already....Malachi was the last direct prophet and the god said straight it would leave them now for Christ to come and it NEVER spoke to mankind ever again !!

So in His day, the priests had a real dilemma didnt they..?...Here was a man - doing proper bona fide miracles - things that they themselves COULD NOT DO - and He is telling everyone that HE can do these things BECAUSE OF HIS FATHER....Like He tells the rabbis - yer I HEALED A LEPER - just a touch and a spoken word was all I needed - but you guys CAN NOT DO THAT and that is because YOUR "god" is NOT A GOD and had no such power at all !! Im paraphrasing of course, but that is pretty much the way it went down Folks....He told everyone YOU HAVE THE WRONG GOD and you are all deceived by a trickster Angel...here He said I will prove it by these feats that I do with ease and yet are way way WAY beyond YOUR ability.....People SAW THE TRUTH and so they flocked to HIM - and alongside He is openly telling them the Hebrew god is bogus, the temple is a sham HATE it DAMN it and all the rest......

Work it out then - it is blindingly obvious - and never forget - in the ORIGINAL gospel of John He will lay it all out step by detailed step - my Father and how Creation occurs - FULLY EXPLAINED - and alongside the process and unfolding history of what got created by whom in what order - and we see UNDENIABLY, the CREATION of the Angel Yhvh and are told explicitly all the details that happened to bring about mankind on the Earth - there is NO MISTAKE it IS plain to see and there is absolutely no way that the Hebrew god is the SOURCE of creation - the Hebrew god IS a CREATURE like You and I are - an Angel as Christ explains it in step by tiny step details and THIS is why He is now doing all this delivering a new teaching of the LEGITIMATE Divine that He says NO SOUL had ever before encountered....I could explain it all in fine detail just as He did - but clearly we see already they are indeed ENEMIES......

The priests faced with all this had NO COMMUNICATION from their god -silent already for some centuries - it knew Christ was coming to basically blow its deception wide open and so to all intents and purposes it ABANDONS the Jews and leaves all this to Christ to put straight...NOBODY has ever spoken to THAT god directly since Malachi..and I will tell you (all) a simple truth in that this "god" Yhvh finally relinquishes its false claim to superiority - finally encounters the TRUE Divine for itself and it is Yhvh itself that is first to "repent" of its wicked ways so to speak...The bible we now have is a twisting of this truth as the god plays hide and seek, smoke and mirrors to keep us confused and dominated always.... Christ came among us and this one Yhvh was POWERLESS to stop it...Christ did NOT come from Yhvh at all but from the realm of the Trinity that He said NOBODY HAD EVER ENCOUNTERED before, not even that god or its angels !!!

He told people all this freely - proved it as said with miracles - took them AWAY from the temple and its bogus god - and THIS is why the rabbis act against Him...They CAN NOT go to their god directly for guidance, for as said the god has already covertly ABANDONED them knowing it is powerless against Christ it simply leaves and is NEVER heard from again !! So they themselves decide to act - but they are very warey of course because look CHRIST - does DIVINE MAGIK the likes of which has NEVER been seen before and they themselves cannot match at all....So - cautiously - they are confused and scared - they go to Rome and have THEM act on their behalf...Clearly, they expect my Father to be a "god" like their own - vengeful jealous wrathful - clearly they are scared of Divine repurcussion - they dare not act directly against Him as they simply DO NOT KNOW THEIR GODS WILL - do they..??.. And yet here is the man who is a DIRECT THREAT to their god their religion their power and status - isnt He..??... And this threat to them just gets worse and worse - He is directly opposed to them at every chance He gets and is publiclly DENOUNCING THEM AND THEIR GOD !!! THEY ARE ENEMIES make no mistake...For all these things He says and does AGAINST them and their "god", they do indeed plot to MURDER Him just as He told them to their faces !!

Add it up - they ARE enemies clearly so - and this IS because THEIR god is NOT our Father, legitimate SOURCE of Creation itself that Christ alone reveals..as always for those with ears to hear...