The trinity debate - Is it monotheism?

[danieldemol]

(long paraphrase for, ‘No-one comes to the Father except by me’)

That was just Jesus’ ego speaking, plenty of people have come close to God without the help of Jesus.

 

[cataway]

That was just Jesus’ ego speaking, plenty of people have come close to God without the help of Jesus.

and you are some one that has missed the mark as to know who Jesus and his God Jehovah truly is.

 

[sojourner]

Christmas, Easter,?? that's not Christian

Of course they are! Where've you been for the last 2020 years???

 

[cataway]

Of course they are! Where've you been for the last 2020 years???

i confess i am NOT 2020 years old.

 

[firedragon]

Of course they are! Where've you been for the last 2020 years???

Errm. Thats not a fair statement.

If you say that Christmas and Easter are part of Christianity, and has been for 2020 years, can you provide evidence and explanation to the following?

1. Jesus passed in around 33 A.D. So how could both of those be 2020 years old when Jesus was probably around 3 - 5 years old 2020 years ago?
2. What are the dates and when were they first celebrated?

Cheers.

 

[sojourner]

I set out three questions directly to him but so far nothing scriptural has been received from him that would adjudicate the situation (provide a [biblical] settlement over this dispute).

Why is a scriptural answer "necessary?" This thread isn't in biblical debates. No wonder you're confused. Looks like you expect every Christian experience to be included explicitly in the bible

I do wonder, though, if any trinitarian believer can answer a scriptural question without resorting to ‘doctrine’ - and even back up that ‘doctrine’ from the scriptures?

See above. Doctrine is important because it is authoritative and because it regulates those experiences that are not explicitly biblical -- as well as focusing biblical experiences in order to provide foundation for core beliefs.

As you see, and may not agree with all that I’ve said, but isn’t it simple enough to outline what it is that is not agreed with (posts to both sojourner and Firedragon) seeing that I spilt up my thesis into ‘bite sized chunks and ask for comments on each chunk?

Your chunks aren't cogent to the OP.

Can anyone outline, from beginning to end, what the scriptures is about; what the purpose of the major events concern, nutshell the main players; project the prophesies onto the embodiment of those prophesies:

• ‘God’s word made flesh!!
• Put flesh on the bones of the predicted events:
• a saviour was born: I will sent my servant who I chose, my beloved on whom I will put my spirit, and he will bring justice to the nations...(I wonder who this could be!)
• is God a servant? Does God put ‘his Holy Spirit on himself?

... And provide a conclusion to what is the ideology of God.

The bible wasn't designed or intended for that purpose. The scriptures combined aren't "about" anything other than being the written record of the Tradition of God's people.

See, cataway, ask them these Questions and you will received lies... why, because their ideology is false and would not hold up under scrutiny: an impossible jigsaw puzzle because the pieces of their ideological jigsaw are from several different box sets.

That's what the bible is, so that's what you get.

Because the ideology I express is true

Is it? Everyone else seems to disagree with you.

Your narrow and infantile way of insisting that the bible is one story, is infallible, and must contain all Christian experience renders your arguments nothing more than fantasy. Continue to live in your own sola scriptura head if you want. The rest of us would rather not buy into that heresy.

 

[cataway]

Errm. Thats not a fair statement.

If you say that Christmas and Easter are part of Christianity, and has been for 2020 years, can you provide evidence and explanation to the following?

1. Jesus passed in around 33 A.D. So how could both of those be 2020 years old when Jesus was probably around 3 - 5 years old 2020 years ago?
2. What are the dates and when were they first celebrated?

Cheers.

hyperbole ?

 

[sojourner]

i confess i am NOT 2020 years old.

No, but you claim knowledge of the Faith from the beginning. What sort of "knowledge" would lead you to believe that celebrating Christ's birth and resurrection aren't Christian activities that have been observed since the very early Church?

 

[sojourner]

Errm. Thats not a fair statement.

If you say that Christmas and Easter are part of Christianity, and has been for 2020 years, can you provide evidence and explanation to the following?

1. Jesus passed in around 33 A.D. So how could both of those be 2020 years old when Jesus was probably around 3 - 5 years old 2020 years ago?
2. What are the dates and when were they first celebrated?

Cheers.

Ok. The dating is a little arbitrary; no one has specific dates. But that isn't the point, is it? The point is that Jesus' birth and Resurrection have been celebrated since near the beginning. Therefore, for the poster to say that the activities "aren't Christian" is ludicrous.

 

[firedragon]

Ok. The dating is a little arbitrary; no one has specific dates. But that isn't the point, is it? The point is that Jesus' birth and Resurrection have been celebrated since near the beginning. Therefore, for the poster to say that the activities "aren't Christian" is ludicrous.

Brother. I understand what you say, but making vague statements is not expedient even if you get one thrown at you. Each and every point you made needs a lot of thinking, even though they are simple words for us.

I didn't mean any disrespect.

Peace.

 

[cataway]

Ok. The dating is a little arbitrary; no one has specific dates. But that isn't the point, is it? The point is that Jesus' birth and Resurrection have been celebrated since near the beginning. Therefore, for the poster to say that the activities "aren't Christian" is ludicrous.

ah, but only his death was to be held as important

 

[firedragon]

ah, but only his death was to be held as important

You know what? You are right.

 

[cataway]

You know what? You are right.

yep but i'll still get an argument from many that dont know any better

 

[Terry Sampson]

@firedragon
This thread is now 254 posts long. Is your curiosity satisfied?

 

[firedragon]

@firedragon
This thread is now 254 posts long. Is your curiosity satisfied?

Oh. My original topic is forgotten long ago.

 

[sojourner]

ah, but only his death was to be held as important

Not so. Take a closer look at Orthodox theology. The Incarnation is of great importance.

 

[Terry Sampson]

Oh. My original topic is forgotten long ago.

That's what happens when you let anti-trinitarians in the door. I contemplated jumping in from time to time, but bit my tongue. Because the original issue that you raised remains unsettled, I've contemplated opening a one-on-one thread to explore the matter in a quieter environment. You interested?.

 

[firedragon]

That's what happens when you let anti-trinitarians in the door. I contemplated jumping in from time to time, but bit my tongue. Because the original issue that you raised remains unsettled, I've contemplated opening a one-on-one thread to explore the matter in a quieter environment. You interested?.

Always brother. Always.

 

[Terry Sampson]

Always brother. Always.

Just wondering if I should make it a private conversation or go public. I'll let you know, one way or the other, when I've decided.

 

[cataway]

Not so. Take a closer look at Orthodox theology. The Incarnation is of great importance.

see ...i called it