The Story of Job- God's Bet With the Devil

[Muffled]

Are you sure?

Here is Thayers Lexicon definition of faith:

I don't go by religious gobbeldy gook. I am communicating with people who speak English so my reference is Webster's:
1trust

noun \ˈtrəst\
Definition of TRUST

1
a : assured reliance on the character, ability, strength, or truth of someone or something b : one in which confidence is placed

2
a : dependence on something future or contingent : hope b : reliance on future payment for property (as merchandise) delivered : credit <bought furniture on trust



1faith

noun \&#712;f&#257;th\
plural faiths\&#712;f&#257;ths, sometimes &#712;f&#257;thz\
Definition of FAITH

1
a : allegiance to duty or a person : loyalty b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions

2
a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust


Granted that trust by definition appears to be an element of faith as a less used definition but from the Bible the Apostle Paul and Elder James view faith as an action.

Paul in Hebrews
Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God concerning things not seen as yet, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house;

James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, in that he offered up Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Thou seest that faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect;

 

[Muffled]

Maybe not in your dictionary, but to the rest of the world, it is (emphasis mine):

brought on - definition of brought on by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

The term "brought on" indicates that God carries responsibility for what happened to Job, no matter how you twist its meaning.

Webster's definition
2cause

verb
causedcaus·ing
Definition of CAUSE

transitive verb
1
: to serve as a cause or occasion of <cause an accident>

2
: to compel by command, authority, or force <caused him to resign>

Job 1:11 But put forth thy hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will renounce thee to thy face. 12 And Jehovah said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thy hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of Jehovah.

Notice that Satan wants God to deliver the trouble by His hand but God refuses and puts the onus on Satan to do it by his power.

The suggestion and the act have Satan as their source.

There is no question that God is responsible. Satan could never have the power to do it unless God allowed it. It is that very thing about which Satan is upset ie that God has put a hedge around Job and Satan can't touch him.

 

[Muffled]

Which leads to the question as to why God needed to prove a point to the Devil?

Satan isn't lying to anyone but himself. Only the truth can break a lie. I believe that God loves Satan as much as any of His creation and would redeem him if he could.

 

[smokydot]

isa. 40?:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that astretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
the word circle was thought to mean "all encompassing"' or '"all around", like "all around town" or like "a circle of friends" never meant to imply "spherical"

Can you show from other Scriptures that "circle" is used that way?

 

[Thief]

Satan isn't lying to anyone but himself. Only the truth can break a lie. I believe that God loves Satan as much as any of His creation and would redeem him if he could.

Excellent!!!! Someone is thinking.

Do you suppose as I do....
This incident described in the book of Job is more to the relationship between God and the Devil?

I think I said so ....earlier in this thread....
Or was it the thread I did long time ago?

So many threads...so much to unravel!

 

[sniper762]

i arive at that conclusion based on my knowledge of the level of intelligence the people of the biblical times had on things such as that. the big picture.

i ask you the same. can you name OTHER scriptures that use "circle" to substanciate YOUR interpretation?

 

[smokydot]

i arive at that conclusion based on my knowledge of the level of intelligence the people of the biblical times had on things such as that. the big picture.

Kinda' subjective, don't you think?

i ask you the same. can you name OTHER scriptures that use "circle" to substanciate YOUR interpretation?

Mine is not "interpretation." I am taking the text at what it says.

Why would I assume the Word of God written does not mean what it says?

 

[Thief]

Kinda' subjective, don't you think?
Mine is not "interpretation." I am taking the text at what it says.

Why would I assume the Word of God written does not mean what it says?

There's another thread for that...
are you participating there too?

 

[sniper762]

i believe it was YOU that said that the story of job was "symbolic".

your words "Why would I assume the Word of God written does not mean what it says?"

 

[smokydot]

There's another thread for that...
are you participating there too?

I am responding to a post on this thread.

 

[outhouse]

Not according to their scriptures--Isa 40:22. . .700 years BC.

40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

he could have as easily thought the world was flat in a circle shape, many people at that time thought the world was flat and square, hence the 4 corners.

despite this passage even if we gave it to you, it would show in my opinion that all the books of the OT had different interpetations because they were written by man for man.

The reason why the other authors of teh OT state the world is flat is because thats all that was known at that time. hence written by man for man in my opinion

 

[sandy whitelinger]

The Bible says: The Earth is flat!

Isaiah 11:12
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH. (KJV)
Revelation 7:1
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (KJV)
Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)
Jeremiah 16:19
19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ENDS OF THE EARTH, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit. (KJV)
Daniel 4:11
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ENDS OF ALL THE EARTH: (KJV)
Matthew 4:8
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; (KJV)

Astronomical bodies are spherical, and you cannot see the entire exterior surface from any place. The kingdoms of Egypt, China, Greece, Crete, sections of Asia Minor, India, Maya (in Mexico), Carthage (North Africa), Rome (Italy), Korea, and other settlements from these kingdoms of the world were widely distributed.

The Bible not only failed to claim that the Earth was egg-shaped, but it also claimed in numerous verses as shown above that the Earth is flat, has Edges, has Four Corners, has Pillars, and has Foundations. As I said above, no unbiased person would deny the obvious and embarrassing quotes above. Only the desperate biased Jews and Christians would.


The Earth has pillars?!
"He shakes the earth from its place and makes its pillars tremble. (From the NIV Bible, Job 9:6)"
"Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand. (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:4)"

The Earth has Edges?!
"that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it? (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:13)"
"He unleashes his lightning beneath the whole heaven and sends it to the ends of the earth. (From the NIV Bible, Job 37:3)"
"for he views the ends of the earth and sees everything under the heavens. (From the NIV Bible, Job 28:24)"
"Their measure is longer than the earth and wider than the sea. (From the NIV Bible, Job 11:9)"

Idiomatic insinuations.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Biblical references Psalm 93:1, 96:10, and 1 Chronicles 16:30 include text (depending on the translation) stating that "the world is firmly established, it cannot be moved." In the same manner, Psalm 104:5 says, "the Lord set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved." Further, Ecclesiastes 1:5 states that "And the sun rises and sets and returns to its place" etc.[46]

That's the best you have?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

...some modern religions (jw's for one) misinterpret certain scripture to imply that it was though.

What, flat?

 

[sniper762]

no, round

 

[outhouse]

Idiomatic insinuations.

could be

That's the best you have?

look it is common knowlwedge the church condemned galileo for his thoughts

its also common knowledge that at the time of the OT round earth was not completely accepted yet.

Now its time for your to "put up" bring it.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

look it is common knowlwedge the church condemned galileo for his thoughts

its also common knowledge that at the time of the OT round earth was not completely accepted yet.

Now its time for your to "put up" bring it.

I love simple answers. People have historically misinterpreted the Bible by taking vague language (such as you offered) and making definite conclusions.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

no, round

And flat.

 

[outhouse]

I love simple answers. People have historically misinterpreted the Bible by taking vague language (such as you offered) and making definite conclusions.

this is where your wrong

Im not making definate conclusions, I personaly dont think the bible was a non fictional conclusion.

Im now asking you for sources and information to back your side of this debate?

show me, im open to change

 

[sandy whitelinger]

this is where your wrong

Im not making definate conclusions, I personaly dont think the bible was a non fictional conclusion.

Im now asking you for sources and information to back your side of this debate?

show me, im open to change

Oh, fine but I'm already bored with this nonsense. In Job 41:23 it says, speaking of Leviathian, "The flakes of his flesh are joined together: they are firm in themselves; they cannot be moved." KJV The same word for moved is used here that you say described the earth as being geocentric. Does this mean the universe also revolves aroun Leviathians flesh?

Or perhaps in Ps. 10:6 speaking of the wicked, "He hath said in his heart, I shall not be moved: for I shall never be in adversity." Again, the same Hebrew word for moved. Perhaps the universe revolves around a wicked heart.

Shall I go on?