The "Speaking French Tax".....Right Or Wrong?

[Revoltingest]

$7.50 for a beer?
I'd be drinking tap water!

 

[Shermana]

$7.50 for a beer?
I'd be drinking tap water!

I remember complaining about $7.50 beers at the bars.....8 years ago!

I can get a Pint of fine quality imported Organic British Lager for about half that price at Sprout's.

 

[mycorrhiza]

$7.50 for a beer?
I'd be drinking tap water!

Yup, it's quite expensive at bars in Sweden. At systembolaget (the state owned liquor store) a beer costs much less. The same beers that go for $7.50 in a bar go for around $1.50 there.

The restaurant entrepreneurs do use tips as a reason to lower wages, even though tipping is far from as common in Sweden as it is in the US. Our unions are trying to combat this, though.

 

[Revoltingest]

I can get a Pint of fine quality imported Organic British Lager for about half that price at Sprout's.

That's more.....hic!....like it....hiccup!

 

[Mathematician]

So tips are included in the wage?! Here they must pay minimum wage and then tips are added on top of that.

A lot of small businesses, however, hold this over the head of waiters/hosts who don't make up the amount in tip. If you pursue your money, you can be fired. It's obscene. Quite a few friends of mine in high school experienced that drab.

 

[Shermana]

A lot of small businesses, however, hold this over the head of waiters/hosts who don't make up the amount in tip. If you pursue your money, you can be fired. It's obscene. Quite a few friends of mine in high school experienced that drab.

Indeed.

Why don't more people think that there's something wrong with being allowed to pay people lower for a high-stress job under the expectation that it will be made up with tips as if they have a guaranteed clientele each who will make up the difference? That should be illegal and considered exploitation and speculation even.

 

[Revoltingest]

Indeed.
Why don't more people think that there's something wrong with being allowed to pay people lower for a high-stress job under the expectation that it will be made up with tips as if they have a guaranteed clientele each who will make up the difference? That should be illegal and considered exploitation and speculation even.

Because that's the system, & it's rather entrenched.
They could count themselves fortunate that they're not real estate agents, who often must pay for their employer
for the use of an office. People sell houses & wait tables cuz they make enuf to prefer it over other jobs, like
washing dishes, cooking, cleaning, driving a taxi, drain snaking, etc.

 

[4consideration]

i consider tipping to be compulsory when service is acceptable. It's an awkward
system, but we're stuck with it for the moment. We'uns generally tip 17% to 20%.
And even including the tip, we believe we get a pretty good value for where we eat.

As a matter of personal philosophy and practise, I tend to behave as though tipping is compulsory, except in extremely bad service situations.

But, along the lines of the situation in the article that you posted, do you think that it is acceptable for a server to arbitrarily add a charge to a customer's bill that they did not actually agree to in advance? (I am talking about simply belief in right vs. wrong behavior -- not whether or not it is technically legal.)

 

[Revoltingest]

As a matter of personal philosophy and practise, I tend to behave as though tipping is compulsory, except in extremely bad service situations.

But, along the lines of the situation in the article that you posted, do you think that it is acceptable for a server to arbitrarily add a charge to a customer's bill that they did not actually agree to in advance? (I am talking about simply belief in right vs. wrong behavior -- not whether or not it is technically legal.)

I think they should post their tipping policy where it wouldn't be known by all.
How to diplomatically say that Frenchies will have it added in automatically?
I don't know

 

[Revoltingest]

A revolting ode to be posted on the wall of my Vermont restaurant....if I ever open one

When feasting on flounder or spare ribs or crab,
you're welcome to banter & gossip & gab.
But when we hear French,
& fear tip retrench,
our staff will add twenty per cent to your tab

 

[4consideration]

I think they should post their tipping policy where it wouldn't be known by all.
How to diplomatically say that Frenchies will have it added in automatically?
I don't know

Uh, oh...I feel a tangent coming on...

Before I take it too far off track, I just want to ask you something. Since tipping is customary, and expected, do you think that it is so clearly expected that it makes it OK for a server to say something (or chastise) a customer for not tipping?

(I had a really heated discussion with some friends about this years ago. I was the only one that agreed with me. )

 

[Revoltingest]

Uh, oh...I feel a tangent coming on...
Before I take it too far off track, I just want to ask you something. Since tipping is customary, and expected, do you think that it is so clearly expected that it makes it OK for a server to say something (or chastise) a customer for not tipping.

I guess it's OK, but I don't know if they ever do directly discuss it with the customer.
Of course, they can always spit in the food next time, but that's a one-sided conversation.

 

[4consideration]

I guess it's OK, but I don't know if they ever do directly discuss it with the customer.
Of course, they can always spit in the food next time, but that's a one-sided conversation.

I just realized this was in the Political Debates section. Oops.

 

[Alceste]

I believe waiters would collectively make more money if people woke up to how stupid tipping was and they had to be paid a base pay that everyone else gets. It shows how badly this pretensious "voluntary tipping" concept has gotten out of hand when they are allowed to pay waiters far less than standard in expectation of this voluntary-generosity. Tipping more only will exasperate this problem.

Why I Eat Out: an essay by Alceste.

I don't have to buy it. I don't have to cook it. I don't have to serve it. I don't have to clean up after myself. This is the closest I thing I will ever know to being an aristocrat, and the only part of being an aristocrat that appeals to me in the slightest.

The minimum wage in Australia for an adult is $15.51.

We do not have a tip culture, but some places have tip jars and unless the service is crappy ill drop my lose change in.

Some times if the service is really good i'll ask the register attendant to give some money to the person serving me.

Really? That probably explains why all the young folks I met in Australia owned houses, and all the young people here can't afford them.

Because that's the system, & it's rather entrenched.
They could count themselves fortunate that they're not real estate agents, who often must pay for their employer
for the use of an office. People sell houses & wait tables cuz they make enuf to prefer it over other jobs, like
washing dishes, cooking, cleaning, driving a taxi, drain snaking, etc.

No, I didn't choose to wait tables because I "preferred" it. It was a crap job. It was exploitative, even though my province had a proper minimum wage law (no exemptions for this or that industry). I took the job because I had no other skills at the time (I was a teenager). When the owner made me pay the full tab of a pair of customers who waited until my back was turned, then snuck out a side door, I quit. (Actually, I repaid myself several times over by using the same bill for multiple tables for a couple of weeks, then I quit.)

A revolting ode to be posted on the wall of my Vermont restaurant....if I ever open one

When feasting on flounder or spare ribs or crab,
you're welcome to banter & gossip & gab.
But when we hear French,
& fear tip retrench,
our staff will add twenty per cent to your tab

Very nice!

 

[Revoltingest]

I just realized this was in the Political Debates section. Oops.

I'd say that you're on topic.
No "oops" allowed!

 

[Revoltingest]

No, I didn't choose to wait tables because I "preferred" it. It was a crap job. It was exploitative, even though my province had a proper minimum wage law (no exemptions for this or that industry). I took the job because I had no other skills at the time (I was a teenager). When the owner made me pay the full tab of a pair of customers who waited until my back was turned, then snuck out a side door, I quit. (Actually, I repaid myself several times over by using the same bill for multiple tables for a couple of weeks, then I quit.)

I still suspect that you passed up even worse jobs which were available:
- farm worker <-- That didn't pay to well, but I was very young.
- baby sitting
- lawn mowing <-- That paid OK.
- snow shoveling <-- I loved that....I was very fast & neat.
- production machinist <-- I learned skills, but it was brutal & tedious work.
- fast food purveyor
It's too bad that your employer was a dirtbag. I understand that even Canuckistan has them.

 

[Alceste]

I still suspect that you passed up even worse jobs which were available:
- farm worker <-- That didn't pay to well, but I was very young.
- baby sitting
- lawn mowing <-- That paid OK.
- snow shoveling <-- I loved that....I was very fast & neat.
- production machinist <-- I learned skills, but it was brutal & tedious work.
- fast food purveyor
It's too bad that your employer was a dirtbag. I understand that even Canuckistan has them.

I was in a city - no farm work. I did babysit, mow lawns and shovel snow. I did purvey fast food at the zoo for one summer. Perhaps my ability to get a high-fallutin' waitress job (with tips!) hinged on this restaurant experience. I have not been a production machinist, that much is true, but by the time I was looking for work the factories were all in China already.

It's very common for restaurant owners to make waiters pay for the full retail cost of theft in Canada. I also knew a woman who worked alone in a gas station in the middle of the night (for minimum wage) who was expected to pay the full retail cost of any stolen gas. That's the sort of thing business owners all around the world have a pronounced tendency do when the community they operate in does not act to enforce clear and consistent labour standards.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's very common for restaurant owners to make waiters pay for the full retail cost of theft in Canada. I also knew a woman who worked alone in a gas station in the middle of the night (for minimum wage) who was expected to pay the full retail cost of any stolen gas. That's the sort of thing business owners all around the world have a pronounced tendency do when the community they operate in does not act to enforce clear and consistent labour standards.

Canuckistan sounds like a cruel place.
Such employers are uncommon in & around Revoltingistan.

 

[Alceste]

Canuckistan sounds like a cruel place.
Such employers are uncommon in & around Revoltingistan.

I am pretty confident it boils down to the various regulations in our respective regions, and has nothing to do with the superior moral quality of Revoltingistanians. If your restaurant owners don't have to pay their waiters minimum wage, but they're not allowed to charge them for theft, that's what they'll do. Our restaurant owners have to pay their waiters, but they are allowed to take the cost of "dine and dash" off their wages, so that's what they do. It all boils down to the bottom line, after all. Most business owners just do what is A) the most beneficial to their own interests and B) legal.

 

[Revoltingest]

I am pretty confident it boils down to the various regulations in our respective regions, and has nothing to do with the superior moral quality of Revoltingistanians. If your restaurant owners don't have to pay their waiters minimum wage, but they're not allowed to charge them for theft, that's what they'll do. Our restaurant owners have to pay their waiters, but they are allowed to take the cost of "dine and dash" off their wages, so that's what they do. It all boils down to the bottom line, after all. Most business owners just do what is A) the most beneficial to their own interests and B) legal.

Being allowed to do something, & finding it worth doing are 2 different things.
Charging staff for theft by others risks demoralizing the staff, & increasing turnover.
Training new waiters is expensive. So an employer must balance costs & benefits of policies.
Even if the waiters' pay is high enuf to make tolerating such a theft policy worth it, they won't feel that way.