metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
What about capital punishment, refusing to take action against climate change, and war?
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The Source of Rights
- Thread starter Truth in love
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- rights
is changing the subject of the question asked
Did that change your right?
Heyo
Veteran Member
No. In fact, it shows that there is no god-given right and that there never was.
The only source of rights is society. And US society has decided not to grant an inalienable right to life. There is a privilege, a revocable right to life, though.
The logic doesn't flow.
If you have the right of privacy, someone can violate the right but you still have the right to privacy.
Heyo
Veteran Member
And those granting the right will prosecute the one trying to violate my right. That 's what a right is, the promise to help to keep the right.
Exactly... you have the right to life. God grants that right according to the Declaration of Independence so the Constitution empowers people to prosecute the one trying to violate your right.
Leaving "God" out of it altogether, I'll tell you what I think: the source of the rights that I grant you are rooted in the rights I hope you will grant me.
Really, what could be simpler?
Incorrect, Ken. God certified (according to your belief) in the Garden of Eden that you will die. So much for the right to life.
The basis of our laws in this country is the Constitution of the United States.
Part of does not mean forms the basis.
Not really sure where this argument is going. We both agree to the value of each of those documents.
I think you misinterpreted scriptures. He certified life...man, as you have noticed, certifies that death in many cases is preferable.
I'm just saying that the Constitution was based on the spirit of the Declaration of Independence. Without the Declaration, the basis for the Constitution would no be what it is.
Well that's OK, because no God is known to exist, and no rational person takes the Garden myth literally. That myth is rampant with logical problems, and doesn't;t make sense in any way. Would a God that really wanted the people it created to follow his rules end up creating people who don't obey the rules? Only an incompetent God, or a God that didn't really make them to be obedient.
This is much like the Code Red in a Few Good Men. No marine on the base would disobey the Colonel's order to leave Santiago alone. Yet two guys did. But did they? No, Jessup ordered the Code Red. Jessup is the guilty party just as God is in the Garden myth.
The DoI refers to a Creator only as a basis for the divine rights of the founders to offset the divine right of the King of England. That was a calculated move that asserts the founders were equal to the king, nothing religious implied except that.
I agree that the Declaration provides a philosophical basis and the principles that would later be formulated into the more detailed articles and amendments of the Constitution. I can agree with your assessment of it as the spirit that ushered in the Constitution.
Heyo
Veteran Member
Except when they don't and "the people" are those who violate my right to life.
Then they insist on their "god-given" right to kill me.
No. There is no way to square that circle, with or without god. You just don't value life as one of the highest rights and you sure don't think it's an inalienable right.
osgart
Nothing my eye, Something for sure
Rights are rooted in wise people who know that in order to live and enjoy any quality of life we must regard that all people have rights that must never be violated. Rights are the sense that fairness and equality applies to everyone, and if any life is to be lived well then we must hold each other responsible to maintain civil peace and do as the DOI says or face oppression, abuse, war, chaos, and serious degradation of society.
I'm atheist but I do heavily regard the main points of the Declaration of Independence.
There's a foundational equality that is the basis of civil society. If America was all lip service without action then we would have never gotten this far as a nation with the freedoms we've had.
The fact that people would undermine fairness and equality; where one regards others as they desire to be regarded, is not to be an American.
People live and die to uphold this equality. In spite of the wild savagery that challenges freedom, our pursuit of equality is worthy of life and death to uphold. Anything less is a hellish misery. Trust is built on equal rights.
People may go beyond others, and deserve more than others, but the foundational equality must never be broken.
Of course there are people that desire to have authoritarian figures provide them some false security. There are times when leaders deceive us all. But the more people that care about rights for everyone, the less we all suffer, and the balance of power stays in check.
In American democracy the will of the majority must be upheld so long as it regards freedom and equality to the utmost, and doesn't undermine the Constitution and Declaration, or revolutions do happen.
Sometimes there are ideals that are worthy of everything. The roots of rights are very simple though.
One has to be honest with the system of democracy if it's expected to work, and it has in the past.
Of course at this time in America there is a fierce split between liberals and so called conservatives. It seems every aspect of human nature and human rights is challenged. There's conflicting truths. Nothing is to be taken for granted but somehow whoever comes out the winner; peace, fairness, and equality must be upheld. There's too much too lose, and too much at stake to ever let authoritarians seriously undermine what freedoms we still have.
I'm atheist but I do heavily regard the main points of the Declaration of Independence.
There's a foundational equality that is the basis of civil society. If America was all lip service without action then we would have never gotten this far as a nation with the freedoms we've had.
The fact that people would undermine fairness and equality; where one regards others as they desire to be regarded, is not to be an American.
People live and die to uphold this equality. In spite of the wild savagery that challenges freedom, our pursuit of equality is worthy of life and death to uphold. Anything less is a hellish misery. Trust is built on equal rights.
People may go beyond others, and deserve more than others, but the foundational equality must never be broken.
Of course there are people that desire to have authoritarian figures provide them some false security. There are times when leaders deceive us all. But the more people that care about rights for everyone, the less we all suffer, and the balance of power stays in check.
In American democracy the will of the majority must be upheld so long as it regards freedom and equality to the utmost, and doesn't undermine the Constitution and Declaration, or revolutions do happen.
Sometimes there are ideals that are worthy of everything. The roots of rights are very simple though.
One has to be honest with the system of democracy if it's expected to work, and it has in the past.
Of course at this time in America there is a fierce split between liberals and so called conservatives. It seems every aspect of human nature and human rights is challenged. There's conflicting truths. Nothing is to be taken for granted but somehow whoever comes out the winner; peace, fairness, and equality must be upheld. There's too much too lose, and too much at stake to ever let authoritarians seriously undermine what freedoms we still have.
Truth in love
Well-Known Member
The rights coming from our nature and not being subject to revocation.
I think this is argumentative.
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
The only rights that exist, are those agreed by the society that you live in.
At times of conflict they largely go by the board.
At the present time Russia is ignoring the rights of Ukraine as both people and as a country.
Like many countries including the USA , they do not follow all aspects of the Geneva convention when it comes to treatment of captives or the weapons that they use. and certainly not when it comes to targeting civilians.
Human rights, civil rights and personal rights. are granted only so long as it is expedient to politicians, and national Governments. To a very wide extent the military ignore them. marshal law, brings in an entirely different set of rights and duties.
Ethics and religion only have a passing say so in their establishment. Those that are agreed internationally are ones that display the largest danger to self interest if broken.
No one consults God, and there is no consensus between the various religions.
The right to life is largely ignored and is unenforceable.
At times of conflict they largely go by the board.
At the present time Russia is ignoring the rights of Ukraine as both people and as a country.
Like many countries including the USA , they do not follow all aspects of the Geneva convention when it comes to treatment of captives or the weapons that they use. and certainly not when it comes to targeting civilians.
Human rights, civil rights and personal rights. are granted only so long as it is expedient to politicians, and national Governments. To a very wide extent the military ignore them. marshal law, brings in an entirely different set of rights and duties.
Ethics and religion only have a passing say so in their establishment. Those that are agreed internationally are ones that display the largest danger to self interest if broken.
No one consults God, and there is no consensus between the various religions.
The right to life is largely ignored and is unenforceable.