The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.

[Quirkybird]

I'm a non-believer, but I do not treat Jesus' death with contempt. I respect the fact that he was willing to die for what he believed in... although I may not share those same beliefs. On a side note, I'm curious to know why the Christian god punishes finite "sins" with infinite torture. In all honesty, if God were a human torturing other humans in the same manner, he'd be on trial for crimes against humanity.

If Jesus did die for what he believed in, that was his choice and fair enough. However some of the extreme beliefs on which the exponents of them use Jesus as a peg on which to hang them, are truly awful. If Jesus had been a halfway decent human being I think he would be shocked at what some claim in his name.

 

[Thief]

If Jesus did die for what he believed in, that was his choice and fair enough. However some of the extreme beliefs on which the exponents of them use Jesus as a peg on which to hang them, are truly awful. If Jesus had been a halfway decent human being I think he would be shocked at what some claim in his name.

YEAH!....thank you!

 

[Muffled]

The Christian god reminds me of an abusive boyfriend.
"Baby, you know I'm only torturing you because I love you."

I believe saying this is like being an abusive boyfriend saying if you don't do what I want I will beat you up with words.

 

[Quirkybird]

The Christian god reminds me of an abusive boyfriend.
"Baby, you know I'm only torturing you because I love you."

An excellent analogy!

 

[allright]

Barnes' Notes on The Bible, says of Isaiah 30:33- "The sense is, that the army of the Assyrians would be completely destroyed, as if it were a large pile of wood in the valley of Hinnom that should be fired by the breath of God."


Since Barnes is your expert I noticed you failed to mention in his notes on Mathew 24 and 25and elsewhere he states that Jesus is teaching that hell is eternal conscious torment

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

I believe saying this is like being an abusive boyfriend saying if you don't do what I want I will beat you up with words.

Just replace "words" with "a firey pit of unending torment and anguish," and you've hit the nail on the head.

 

[Ingledsva]

Barnes' Notes on The Bible, says of Isaiah 30:33- "The sense is, that the army of the Assyrians would be completely destroyed, as if it were a large pile of wood in the valley of Hinnom that should be fired by the breath of God."

Since Barnes is your expert I noticed you failed to mention in his notes on Mathew 24 and 25 and elsewhere he states that Jesus is teaching that hell is eternal conscious torment

Two different texts - one from Tanakh - the other from the NT - which as stated, has erroneously turned the Satan of Tanakh into an evil being with a Hell.


And Jesus never mentions a Hell.


And by the way - Mat 25:46 ---


(KJV) And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Actually says -

And theses shall pass away in penalty eternal: but the innocent into life eternal.


Now - they may look alike - however the correct translation shows, as do all of Jesus' teachings, - that he had no HELL and torture forever ideas.


It is very clear - when kept in order and translated correctly, that one side dies and stays that way eternally - while the other rises to life eternal.


He contrasts them -eternal death - eternal life.


NO PERPETUAL HELLFIRE.



*

 

[Aupmanyav]

"Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. And thou, Capernaum,
which art exalted unto heaven,
shalt be brought down to hell:
for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woes_to_the_unrepentant_cities

Jesus is love.

 

[Parsimony]

I apologize if this has already been brought up before (it's a long thread) but:

Matthew 10:28
"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

Does anyone know what the original word was that has been translated as "destroy" here? Does the word literally mean destroy or is there more than one possible meaning?

 

[Ingledsva]

"Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. And thou, Capernaum,
which art exalted unto heaven,
shalt be brought down to hell:
for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee."
Woes to the unrepentant cities - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jesus is love.

Not Hell - Hades = grave.


*

 

[s2a]

I really am looking to understand God, but not this God that humans teach, but the real God of Love , Joy and Peace. Not this God of eternal hell punishing, but the God of Patience, forgiveness and Mercy. You know, the real God, not this insane lunatic that many are trying to pass God off as being. You know, this lunatic that will place humans in this eternal Pain amphlipier and punish them for billions upon trillions of untold time and on into infinity. I just can't imagine how out of control this hell fire belief has gotten. And how much these bloodthirsty christians who teach it have ruined Gods reputation.

The eternal punishing of anything, muchless a human, is a sick concept, yet many believers have swallowed it into their belief, hook, line and sinker. And THAT is evidence of just how much foolishness we will absorb.

Peace.

So, what you are saying is...

...you do not believe in Santa Claus?

 

[CG Didymus]

Not Hell - Hades = grave.


*

I saw a show on the History channel about hell. I forgot most of what it said, but wasn't it pretty much an evolution of thought from different religions that grew into the fundy Christian hell?

 

[Ingledsva]

I apologize if this has already been brought up before (it's a long thread) but:

Matthew 10:28
"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

Does anyone know what the original word was that has been translated as "destroy" here? Does the word literally mean destroy or is there more than one possible meaning?

Several can be - however the one I assume you refer to is the last - Apollumi = fully destroy.


However, again, no Hell. It is Gehenna, the burning trash heap of criminals and junk.


Mat 10:28 And you should not fear those killing the body, for these, the soul, are not able to kill. But fear rather he who is able to, both soul and body, totally destroy on/in Gehenna.


GEHENNA - outside Jerusalem where garbage, and criminals were burnt to a cinder = totally consumed.

SHEOL - the grave.

HADES - place of the dead - grave.


*

 

[Ingledsva]

I saw a show on the History channel about hell. I forgot most of what it said, but wasn't it pretty much an evolution of thought from different religions that grew into the fundy Christian hell?

Yep, and most of it formed much later.


Most of the words of Jesus when put back in order, and using the correct words, such as Gehenna, are about eternal life, or eternal death, no torture.


*

 

[Quirkybird]

I would sooner eternal death if that means being without any consciousness.

 

[SkylarHunter]

However, again, no Hell. It is Gehenna, the burning trash heap of criminals and junk.

Mat 10:28 And you should not fear those killing the body, for these, the soul, are not able to kill. But fear rather he who is able to, both soul and body, totally destroy on/in Gehenna.

GEHENNA - outside Jerusalem where garbage, and criminals were burnt to a cinder = totally consumed.

SHEOL - the grave.

HADES - place of the dead - grave.

*

Exactly!

 

[Thief]

Several can be - however the one I assume you refer to is the last - Apollumi = fully destroy.


However, again, no Hell. It is Gehenna, the burning trash heap of criminals and junk.


Mat 10:28 And you should not fear those killing the body, for these, the soul, are not able to kill. But fear rather he who is able to, both soul and body, totally destroy on/in Gehenna.


GEHENNA - outside Jerusalem where garbage, and criminals were burnt to a cinder = totally consumed.

SHEOL - the grave.

HADES - place of the dead - grave.


*

The above terms are familiar to me.
But do you believe we continue in spirit and therefore aware of the circumstances?

I didn't see eternal darkness listed.
I term that as a possible 'grave' scenario.

 

[Ingledsva]

Several can be - however the one I assume you refer to is the last - Apollumi = fully destroy.


However, again, no Hell. It is Gehenna, the burning trash heap of criminals and junk.


Mat 10:28 And you should not fear those killing the body, for these, the soul, are not able to kill. But fear rather he who is able to, both soul and body, totally destroy on/in Gehenna.


GEHENNA - outside Jerusalem where garbage, and criminals were burnt to a cinder = totally consumed.

SHEOL - the grave.

HADES - place of the dead - grave.

The above terms are familiar to me.
But do you believe we continue in spirit and therefore aware of the circumstances?


ING - I have no idea. Anything is possible.


I didn't see eternal darkness listed.
I term that as a possible 'grave' scenario.

Indeed it could be added to the list of "grave" words, or phrases.


However, I was answering a specific question, - and noting that it is not Hell, but Gehenna, - and I thought I should add the other words generally mistranslated as Hell.


*

 

[Thief]

Shall we move to conclusion and say....eternal suffering is possible?

The state of mind might be the focus.
If you can't get out of your body now.....what makes you think you will when you're dead?

And the grave becomes the total of your existence....to dream and not wake up.

But some say....the dead know not....
Would that be in terms of awareness?

If we cease to think and dream.....we truly are dead....as if never born.

 

[someguy22]

In my opinion, the eternal punishment you're saying is a part of judgement. The same as good kid gets a reward and naughty kid gets a slap in the face. The human judgement is flawed and we can't deny that. So that's why it is needed for god to deliver judgement to the bad guy. Unless you want to see a rapist or anything escaped human's law and live happily with you in heaven