The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.

[mickiel]

I really am looking to understand God, but not this God that humans teach, but the real God of Love , Joy and Peace. Not this God of eternal hell punishing, but the God of Patience, forgiveness and Mercy. You know, the real God, not this insane lunatic that many are trying to pass God off as being. You know, this lunatic that will place humans in this eternal Pain amphlipier and punish them for billions upon trillions of untold time and on into infinity. I just can't imagine how out of control this hell fire belief has gotten. And how much these bloodthirsty christians who teach it have ruined Gods reputation.

The eternal punishing of anything, muchless a human, is a sick concept, yet many believers have swallowed it into their belief, hook, line and sinker. And THAT is evidence of just how much foolishness we will absorb.

Peace.

 

[3.14]

man will belief anything if the bait is good enough

 

[cardero]

Welcome to the forums mickiel.

 

[mickiel]

man will belief anything if the bait is good enough

Espically if the bait is filtered through the bible. The use of the bible for anything but salvation is contridiction and blindness. The bible is a book about how we all have a destiny with God, certain religious believers are making it a sadistic book on torture and the slaughter of unbelieving sinners. They think Jesus was beaten to death in order that those who reject God may be beaten for eternity.

Holding no real concept of Gods grace, they pervert the purpose of the Prince of Peace.

Peace.

 

[Dunemeister]

The bible mentions hell, and it's a nasty proposition, but it's not as central a doctrine as you make it seem. You may also want to consider whether your reading of scripture is as accurate as you think it is. Scripture does say that God is wrathful and even recounts some occasions where God personally or through proxies expressed his wrath.

 

[mickiel]

The bible mentions hell, and it's a nasty proposition, but it's not as central a doctrine as you make it seem. You may also want to consider whether your reading of scripture is as accurate as you think it is. Scripture does say that God is wrathful and even recounts some occasions where God personally or through proxies expressed his wrath.

Oh the doctrine of eternal punishing is essential to many christian religions, but not knowing what you are aware of, perhaps those groups you have had exposure to, it may be a small part of their doctrine. But central or not, its insanity, perhaps to some just not a central insanity. I do not claim to hold a 100% accurate view of scripture, I need to learn a lot.

But one thing I have learned, is not to listen to Christianity for the truth, but to listen to Gods word.

Peace.

 

[Katzpur]

I really am looking to understand God, but not this God that humans teach, but the real God of Love , Joy and Peace. Not this God of eternal hell punishing, but the God of Patience, forgiveness and Mercy. You know, the real God, not this insane lunatic that many are trying to pass God off as being. You know, this lunatic that will place humans in this eternal Pain amphlipier and punish them for billions upon trillions of untold time and on into infinity. I just can't imagine how out of control this hell fire belief has gotten. And how much these bloodthirsty christians who teach it have ruined Gods reputation.

The eternal punishing of anything, muchless a human, is a sick concept, yet many believers have swallowed it into their belief, hook, line and sinker. And THAT is evidence of just how much foolishness we will absorb.

Peace.

I agree. I know for sure that not all Christians believe in this ungodly God, though.

 

[Dunemeister]

But one thing I have learned, is not to listen to Christianity for the truth, but to listen to Gods word.

Peace.

Where did God's word come from? To whom was it entrusted?

 

[Willamena]

man will belief anything if the bait is good enough

Especially if the lure is pain and damnation.

 

[Willamena]

I just can't imagine how out of control this hell fire belief has gotten. And how much these bloodthirsty christians who teach it have ruined Gods reputation.

Some people really don't like themselves.

 

[mickiel]

I really personally don't know God, but hope to one day begin that process. Since I do not know God, I can only imagine the things that he will and willnot do. So I only go off of my own understanding and what I see in the bible. But in order for eternal hell punishment to be as true as these christians desire it to be, God must do the following: God must give those poor puny humans destined for hell eternal life. He must give them a super humanoid mind, or they would go insane after the first 999,888,777 trillion years of this incredible level of suffering. He must give them the ability to stay awake, we wouldnot want any of them passing out, why torture someone who is unconscious? We want them to suffer each precious second, why waste time?

God must give them the super lungs of an Aquaman and the skin of the human torch. They must be able to breathe fire. They must have these super abilities in order to endure all of this super pain, without perishing and dying. They must be kept alive and continually punished, and they must be kept on their feet for the first 987,432,964 billion years, so they have to be given the legs of the incredible hulk. Well by now, one would think these poor puny humans, won't be so puny any more, goodness, God would have created a new for of life, SUPER SUFFERERS! These things may get mad at God after the first 888trillion years times infinity goes by, so we'd better post 9 legions of Arch Angels by this lava lake, we wouldnot want any of them getting out, ... now would we?

And any human mind who believes God would do these things, really needs a reality check. Peace.

 

[Mister Emu]

Some people believe that we all end up in God's love, but how we react determines whether it is eternal bliss or torture...

 

[rtc143]

I'm new to this whole thing, but I can see that both of these points are very valid. On one hand God is belived to be an immense power of holyness that is charitable. And it is true that many people like evangelists use Hell and the idea of eternal pain to scare Christians in to strict faith. However, the bible does say He is wrathful and has the power to send a person to Hell through damnation if necessary.

 

[gnomon]

I really am looking to understand God, but not this God that humans teach, but the real God of Love , Joy and Peace. Not this God of eternal hell punishing, but the God of Patience, forgiveness and Mercy. You know, the real God, not this insane lunatic that many are trying to pass God off as being. You know, this lunatic that will place humans in this eternal Pain amphlipier and punish them for billions upon trillions of untold time and on into infinity. I just can't imagine how out of control this hell fire belief has gotten. And how much these bloodthirsty christians who teach it have ruined Gods reputation.

The eternal punishing of anything, muchless a human, is a sick concept, yet many believers have swallowed it into their belief, hook, line and sinker. And THAT is evidence of just how much foolishness we will absorb.

Peace.

Please explain the objective evidence to assume that a God of love, joy, peace, patience, forgiveness and mercy is more likely than any other God or gods.

 

[mickiel]

Please explain the objective evidence to assume that a God of love, joy, peace, patience, forgiveness and mercy is more likely than any other God or gods.

Well I can explain my views, but I hold no intrest in convincing you or anyone that God exist. Its a personal belief of mine, what others believe is up to them. Evidence is for those who are out to prove that such a being as God exist, I hold no intrest in proving that God exist to others, because at its root, its still going to barrell down to belief versus the evidence. One could subjectively offer the evidence, only to have that evidence refuted by others because of lack of belief " In the evidence." However I do believe in answering what questions are asked of me. But mind you, I only answer to explain why I believe, not to persuade that belief to others. I think God is much more able than I to explain himself, when he desires to do as such.

I believe in God because I have examined the " Other possibilitys", and reject those. Such as evolution, or the belief that we evolved from nothing. Evolution is unacceptable to me, I just don't agree with that concept. No, we didnot evolve from some big bang that just exploded out of nowhere, then all this we now see came to be. Perhaps acceptable to others, that does not square with me. Now if there are other theorys concerning how we came to exist, they too are unacceptable to me. But evolution is the only " Other theory" that I view as even worthy to me to have considered. So I accept the possibility of creation from a creator.

Yet that is another subject, or topic. I can go into that topic in detail, and perhaps will, but on another post perhaps, I prefer to stay on topic as much as I can. In this one, I am considering the uselessness of an eternal hell doctrine. I believe that belief in God is given by God, but that God could careless who does not believe in him, because he knows that he is ultimately responsible for their belief, I do not believe he is after free will belief in humans, because he is the author of belief himself. We are not able to believe in God on our own, our ability to believe comes from God, not ourselves. Humans tend to TAKE far too much credit for all things Spiritual.

Evidence then of God, a God who hides himself, is best left to him, not those who believe. I could use much scripture here, but why? Why should I convince anyone of Gods existence, he didnot use others to convince me? Its just been between me and him, and thats how I want it to stay with me. I am beginning to know a little about how God is. Once he has decided to convince, then it no longer matters what others see, or need to see, it only matters how he is dealing with you. God is unique like that, he does what he does, and will eventually do it to everyone. But God himself wants certain amounts of humans to actually disbelieve in him, and thats just the way he has done it. If God, the master potter, molds a peice of clay to not believe in him, there is absolutely nothing another believer in him can do about that. They can talk until they are blue in the face, its just something he will have to do, and he knows how to do it.

I believe it is the destiny of all humanity to come to know God, but only when God decides that. Peace.

 

[Dunemeister]

And any human mind who believes God would do these things, really needs a reality check. Peace.

Perhaps the distinction between heaven and hell is the distinction between an eternal existence in the presence of God (who is love) or an eternal existence completely apart from the presence of God (who is love). If that's the case, then we might think of hell as a state in which there is no love at all. That would be torturous, but it wouldn't be a matter of God taking a personal interest in making sure someone suffers forever.

 

[mickiel]

Perhaps the distinction between heaven and hell is the distinction between an eternal existence in the presence of God (who is love) or an eternal existence completely apart from the presence of God (who is love). If that's the case, then we might think of hell as a state in which there is no love at all. That would be torturous, but it wouldn't be a matter of God taking a personal interest in making sure someone suffers forever.

Well I don't see God as a being who will co-exist with any state of being that is not defined by his Love in eternity. Any eternal existance that is not Love itself, or is not maintained by Love, is not an existance that could be attributed to God. I view the concept of eternal misery as something that God willnot do. I can only see eternal pain and misery as a curse, nothingless. In Revelations 21:4; the bible states very clearly that God shall erase death, mourning, crying and pain, all of which must exist in this projected hell. And in 22:3 of Revelations it plainly states that there shall no longer be ANY curse! This hell humans believe in MUST be defined as a curse, and the bible states that God said there will no longer be a curse, thus, in my view, there shall no longer be a curse such as this hell.

Now I know that Christians will fight for this hell to continue, because thats what THEY want God to do with unbelievers. Its the Christians who DESIRE in their hearts for hell punishment to be a reality. Not God, but certain followers of God teach this insane desire. Like the brother of the prodical son, they don't want God to forgive the sinning part of the family that needs to come to themselves and come home.

Its really the Christians who light up the flames of hell, its their thing. Their desire. In 1Tim. 2:3-4 it is acceptable to God our Savior for all men to be saved and to come into the knowledge that God desires this to occur. This is really the truth. This is the real mystery of the gospel. But believers have been trained to look toward the end of all things, as some kind of event where they will roast their marshmellows in the flames of hell while unbelievers suffer in eternal agony.

And they think this is what God wants.

Its really because they do NOT know God.

Peace.

 

[Dunemeister]

Well I don't see God as a being who will co-exist with any state of being that is not defined by his Love in eternity. Any eternal existance that is not Love itself, or is not maintained by Love, is not an existance that could be attributed to God. I view the concept of eternal misery as something that God willnot do. I can only see eternal pain and misery as a curse, nothingless. In Revelations 21:4; the bible states very clearly that God shall erase death, mourning, crying and pain, all of which must exist in this projected hell. And in 22:3 of Revelations it plainly states that there shall no longer be ANY curse! This hell humans believe in MUST be defined as a curse, and the bible states that God said there will no longer be a curse, thus, in my view, there shall no longer be a curse such as this hell.

You're pretty selective about which scriptures you take as authoritative, I've noticed. For Revelation also says that "the smoke of their torment ascends forever." Perhaps there's no longer any curse for the faithful but there remains one for the faithless. As Jesus said, there will be sheep and there will be goats. As Paul said, for those who patiently persist in doing good, there will be glory, but for the faithless, there will be terror and anguish.

Now I know that Christians will fight for this hell to continue, because thats what THEY want God to do with unbelievers. Its the Christians who DESIRE in their hearts for hell punishment to be a reality. Not God, but certain followers of God teach this insane desire. Like the brother of the prodical son, they don't want God to forgive the sinning part of the family that needs to come to themselves and come home.

I don't know any Christian who "desires hell to continue." I don't know any Christian who wants God to consign anyone to hell. Certainly some Christians are more convinced about hell than others, but that's a far cry from desiring it. Certainly you can see that the nutbar who raids gay funerals and celebrates their perishing in flames is an exception, not the rule? WHO ARE these Christians you speak of, anyway? I get the feeling that you're making them up.

Its really the Christians who light up the flames of hell, its their thing. Their desire. In 1Tim. 2:3-4 it is acceptable to God our Savior for all men to be saved and to come into the knowledge that God desires this to occur. This is really the truth. This is the real mystery of the gospel.

Actually, the concept of hell is compatible with this.

But believers have been trained to look toward the end of all things, as some kind of event where they will roast their marshmellows in the flames of hell while unbelievers suffer in eternal agony.

I agree that western Christianity has badly misread eschatology, but like it or not, eschatology is central to Christian theology. However, I don't think your characterization of believers is accurate. Sounds more like you've got a huge chip on your shoulder.

 

[mickiel]

eschatology, but like it or not, eschatology is central to Christian theology. However, I don't think your characterization of believers is accurate. Sounds more like you've got a huge chip on your shoulder.

Well perhaps your right, I do admit to having a chip on my shoulder for religions that look to limit salvation only to themselves, and seem to search the scriptures not for the life of unbelievers, but look for verses that condemn them. Also I admit to being selective and show favor toward biblical verses that show the forgiveness and Salvation of unbelievers. I admit, that turns me on and attracts me to God, this thing God has for the Salvation of all.

In my studies of the bible, even Jesus didnot like doctrines or aittitudes that seek to limit Salvation. Again Jesus in Matt. 23:13;" But woe to you, scribes and pharisees, hypocrites, because you " Shut Off the Kingdom from men." These religious people were looking for ways to keep sinners out of heaven. Searching the scriptures to find death and misery for unbelievers. Teaching that unbelievers cannot be saved.

In Job 23:13;" God is unique and who can turn him? What his soul desires that he does." In 1 Tim. 2:4 " God DESIRES that all men be saved and come into the knowledge of the truth." This is what God desires, that is what he will do. This is NOT what christians are teaching. They are teaching the same thing the scribes and the pharisees taught, and I consider Christianity modernday pharisees.

So yes, you must forgive me, I do have a chip on that.

Peace.

 

[Katzpur]

Well, I'm a Christian, and my Church's teachings on Heaven/Hell and Salvation/Damnation are quite a bit different than most. According to our theology, pretty much everyone who has ever lived will ultimately end up in Heaven.