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The Second Coming of Christs

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sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
I have to speak from a former southern Baptist point of view, as it's the only form of Christianity I've known from direct experience.

I've examined many other denominations and they all appear to me to have the same problem.

I don't wish to demonize anyone's beliefs. I understand how precious they are. But at the same time, it is not a sin to offer them glasses so that they may see it more clearly.

There is more to the message of Jesus than the church is admitting to.

There IS another level.


x
There's more to the message than many Christians are able to understand. That does not mean that the Church does not safeguard that message. many Christians I know do have a real good grasp of that message, and I believe them to be enlightened individuals. They learned that message from the Church, and they became enlightened through the vehicle of the Church.

There are parts of the Church that do not pander to the lowest common denominator. But they safeguard the depth of the message for those who are ready. The rest are helped along. On the othe hand, there are those parts who only pander to the lowest common denominator. But they are in the minority.
 

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
No, its not a typo.

I will argue the church has it wrong.

What is referred to in the bible as the second coming of Christ is not about Jesus as a singular person.

Its about a segment of humanity reaching spiritual maturity ahead of the masses that aren't quite ready yet. These people are going to be much like myself. They use no holy books to guide them, but rely upon personal revelation to illumine the road ahead.

This will bring them into conflict with those that limp along on religious blind faith alone.

This is the true Armageddon.

How say ye?


x

You are using a Scriptural idea, both Christ and the Second Coming, and saying that Scripture proves that Christ and His arrival is not how it is portrayed Scripturally. Is this correct? Can you offer ANY proof of your claim?
 

xexon

Destroyer of Worlds
I cannot prove to you anything that I say. By that same token, you cannot prove anything in the bible either.

The best I can do is offer you more options than you may be familar with, so that you can prove things for yourself.

That is the only way you will ever know for sure.


x
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
It sure does. Kind of isolating though dont you think? I dont know of any others.

Oh, there are many heretics here, and I'm sure you'll find them eventually.

Um...probably everyone's a heretic here, at least in someone's eyes.

Myself, I'm an infidel. :D

Have fun on RF!
 

A. Ben-Shema

Active Member
It sure does. Kind of isolating though dont you think? I dont know of any others.

P.S. Thanks for the welcome.

Hi Angelfire

Are you the same person who joined the CARM forum recently? Anyway welcome to RF.

To know the Truth is not really an isolating experience, for we always have that Love within, which can never be taken away. I know that this world will hate us, and ridicule us, but to know God is the Supreme experience which outshines all the darkness. God is the best and truest friend that one could ever wish for. :yes:

Peace & Love :)
 

A. Ben-Shema

Active Member
Actually, I mostly agree. The Second Coming is thirteen hundred years ago. The Third coming is 164 years ago and the Fourth Coming not quite 145 years ago.
Next one due around 2860.

Firstly, if what you say was actually true, it would mean that God was not exactly being fair or just to everyone, if He did not actually send a Divine Spiritual Teacher / Christ to each and every generation of mankind. Surely a just and fair God would treat everyone the same way, by giving all the equal and same opportunity of meeting such a Master. In fact it is not merely an opportunity, it is also a real 'test', i.e. to actually be able to humble oneself in order to submit to a living human Master. It is far easier now, to look back with hindsight and recognize a historic Master, than it was to recognize (say) Jesus during his life on Earth. Indeed, how many Christians today would have truly recognized Jesus if they were living around Judea 2,000 years ago?

Secondly, I propose that Jesus was not the first, but maybe around the three-hundredth, or so, Divine Master to appear on Earth. (I really have no idea as to exact figures, but assuming such Masters began coming to Earth around 6,000 years BC, and guessing that perhaps each spanned an average teaching period of say 20 years, that would mean about 300 such Spiritual Teachers up to the time of Jesus). Of course history only records a few of these, as all of them would have been widely rejected, and only few left a mark, due to some extraordinary circumstances.

Among those recorded in myth/legend/history were Noah, Enoch, Zarathustra, Krishna, Osiris, Melchizedek, Moses, Buddha, Elijah, Isaiah, Ezekiel, (probably) John the Baptist, Jesus, Mohammad, Nanak, etc. right down to our own day.

There is no foolproof way of verifying whether any historic Master was actually genuine. It can only be a matter of belief. But there is a way of knowing if a living Master is genuine, for a true Spiritual Master will be able to actually reveal the Mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven, right here and now, to a sincere seeker.

Peace & Love :)


 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
..., I propose that Jesus was not the first, but maybe around the three-hundredth, or so, Divine Master to appear on Earth.
Did I mention that it's important to distinguish between breath and hot air? Can you suggest any reason whatsoever why one should respect such a baseless and inane 'proposition'?
 

FatMan

Well-Known Member
I really have no idea as to exact figures, but assuming such Masters began coming to Earth around 6,000 years BC, and guessing that perhaps each spanned an average teaching period of say 20 years, that would mean about 300 such Spiritual Teachers up to the time of Jesus).

Why do I get the mental imagery of a tag team event??

I see the Masked Man of Canea doing his time and then going into a secret cave where he expires and out comes, Mystical Magi, from parts unknown:D

What's so funny bout Peace, Love and Understanding? - Elvis Costello
 

A. Ben-Shema

Active Member
Did I mention that it's important to distinguish between breath and hot air? Can you suggest any reason whatsoever why one should respect such a baseless and inane 'proposition'?

I did not ask anyone to respect it, or believe it, or accept it. It is what it is. Hot air to you, perhaps truth to another.

Peace & Love :)


 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
"Firstly, if what you say was actually true, it would mean that God was not exactly being fair or just to everyone, if He did not actually send a Divine Spiritual Teacher / Christ to each and every generation of mankind. "

Piffle.

The teachings of Christ were good for a thousand years-Muhammad for another millenia. Just because the Manifestation cannot be seen by everyone does not mean His message can't be heard by everyone.

And as to what God does and does not do: "O Shaykh! Every time God the True One -- exalted be His glory -- revealed Himself in the person of His Manifestation, He came unto men with the standard of "He doeth what He willeth, and ordaineth what He pleaseth." None hath the right to ask why or wherefore, and he that doth so, hath indeed turned aside from God, the Lord of Lords.
(Baha'u'llah, Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, p. 67)

"The spirit that animateth the human heart is the knowledge of God, and its truest adorning is the recognition of the truth that "He doeth whatsoever He willeth, and ordaineth that which He pleaseth." Its raiment is the fear of God, and its perfection steadfastness in His Faith. Thus God instructeth whosoever seeketh Him. He, verily, loveth the one that turneth towards Him. There is none other God but Him, the Forgiving, the Most Bountiful. All praise be to God, the Lord of all worlds."
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 290)

"He it is Who is the manifestation of "God
doeth whatsoever He pleaseth", and abideth upon the
throne of "He ordaineth whatsoever He chooseth".

(Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 76)

"For these hidden Gems, these concealed and invisible Treasures, in themselves manifest and vindicate the reality of these holy words: "Verily God doeth whatsoever He willeth, and ordaineth whatsoever He pleaseth." 98
To every discerning and illumined heart it is evident that God, the unknowable Essence, the divine Being, is immensely exalted beyond every human attribute, such as corporeal existence, ascent and descent, egress and regress. Far be it from His glory that human tongue should adequately recount His praise, or that human heart comprehend His fathomless mystery. He is and hath ever been veiled in the ancient eternity of His Essence, and will remain in His Reality everlastingly hidden from the sight of men. "No vision taketh in Him, but He taketh in all vision; He is the Subtile, the All-Perceiving."[1] No tie of direct intercourse can possibly bind Him to His creatures. He standeth exalted beyond and above all separation and union, all proximity and remoteness. No sign can indicate His presence or His absence; inasmuch as by a word of His command all that are in heaven and on earth have come to exist, and by His wish, which is the Primal Will itself, all have stepped out of utter nothingness into the realm of being, the world of the visible."
[1 Qur'án 6:103.]

(Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 97)

"Gracious God! So great is the folly and perversity of the people, that they have turned their face toward their own thoughts and desires, and have turned their back upon the knowledge and will of God -- hallowed and glorified be His name!
Be fair: Were these people to acknowledge the truth of these luminous words and holy allusions, and recognize God as "Him that doeth whatsoever He pleaseth," how could they continue to cleave 172 unto these glaring absurdities? Nay, with all their soul, they would accept and submit to whatsoever He saith. I swear by God! But for the divine Decree, and the inscrutable dispensations of Providence, the earth itself would have utterly destroyed all this people! "He will, however, respite them until the appointed time of a known day.""
(Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 171)

"Whenever Zachariah entered the chamber to her he found beside her a provision, and said, 'O Mary, how hast thou this?' She said, 'It is from God, for God provides for whom He pleases without count.' Therefore prayed Zachariah to his Lord, and said, 'Lord, grant me from Thee a good seed. Verily, Thou hearest prayer.' And an angel cried out to him as he was standing praying in the chamber (and said) that 'God gives thee the glad tidings of John, to confirm the Word from God,- of a chief and a chaste one, and a prophet from amongst the righteous.'
He said, 'My Lord, how can there be to me a boy when old age has reached me, and my wife is barren?' Said he, 'Thus God does what He pleaseth.' He said, 'My Lord, make for me a sign.' He said, 'Thy sign is that thou shalt not speak to men for three days, save by gesture; but remember thy Lord much, and celebrate His praises in the evening and the morning.'"

(The Qur'an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 3 - Imran's Family)

"There is not a beast upon the earth nor a bird that flies with both its wings, but is a nation like to you; we have omitted nothing from the Book; then to their Lord shall they be gathered. Those who say our signs are lies- deafness, dumbness, in the dark! whom He pleases does God lead astray, and whom He pleases He places on the right way."
(The Qur'an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 6 - Cattle)

"Do they not see that God, whosoever is in the heavens adores Him, and whosoever is in the earth, and the sun, and the moon, and the stars, and the mountains, and the beasts, and many among men, though many a one deserves the torments?
Whomsoever God abases there is none to honour him; verily, God does what He pleases."

(The Qur'an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 22 - The Pilgrimage)

Finally there is no other greater justice than God's

"Were the mysteries, that are known to none except God, to be unraveled, the whole of mankind would witness the evidences of perfect and consummate justice. With a certitude that none can question, all men would cleave to His commandments, and would scrupulously observe them. We, verily, have decreed in Our Book a goodly and bountiful reward to whosoever will turn away from wickedness and lead a chaste and godly life. He, in truth, is the Great Giver, the All-Bountiful."
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 117)

God does as He pleases and whatever He does is Just because God is never unjust.

Regards,
Scott



 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
What is it about "debate" that is unclear to you?

Debate has a precise meaning, and you won't find "debate" here.

"Main Entry: 1de·bate
Pronunciation: di-'bAt, dE-
Function: noun
: a contention by words or arguments: as a : the formal discussion of a motion before a deliberative body according to the rules of parliamentary procedure b : a regulated discussion of a proposition between two matched sides

You will find no attempt at a match and no real, defined proposition. It's more a public riot than a debate.

Regards,

Scott
 

doppelganger

Through the Looking Glass
***MOD POST***

Everyone needs to remember to be civil, even to those with whom you disagree. If there's any confusion about what this entails, please review the forum rules.

 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
Actually, Ben, we have no idea how many Manifestations of God have come. The Qur'an and the writings of my faith say that many have come whose identity and teachings have eventually been lost to recorded history. Some we only know because Muhammad mentions them--Salih and Hud. Salih came to Ubar for instance.

Mankind for a very long time had to have multiple Manifestations because the societies of the world existed without contact with one another.

That isn't the case anymore.

On a spring afternoon in May of 1844 Samuel morse publicly displayed the telegraph for the first time. His message to another station was from the Bible: "What hath God wrought?"

It was a little later that evening in Persia the Bab made His declaration to Mullah Husayn thus beginning the Babi Manifestation.

God had wrought that mankind could finally be unified where a message could travel the globe with precision and speed. For the first time there was ONE society of man.

It's the whole basis for the claims of the bab and Baha`u'llah.

Because the Message of those Manifestations can reach the whole world that we can exist without so many separate Revelations. That is the reasoning behind Baha`u'llah's words that there will not be another Manifestation for a thousand years. Baha`u'llah's words reach the whole globe. This is a new cycle of Revelation to replace the Adamic Cycle and the two are quite distinct.

Regards,
Scott
 

xexon

Destroyer of Worlds
Becoming aware of one's own divine nature is akin to seeing a UFO or Bigfoot.

How can you possibly explain it without looking like a fool?

Until the unbelievers actually experience it themselves, they will likey stay unbelievers.


x
 
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