• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

The Restitution Of All Things

FineLinen

Well-Known Member
Unbelief shall have its portion in the Lake of Fire which burns with fire and brimtone.

Make no mistake! Our God IS consuming fire! If its not like the Lord Jesus himself it's headed for the ash pile.

Unbelief shall have its portion in the Lake of Fire which burns with fire and brimtone.

Rev.21:8

The fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the Lake which burns with fire and brimstone which is the second death. The Lake is a Lake of Holy Ghost fiery water; filled with the fiery judgment of Almighty God.

The Lake is a propetic spiritual picture of the revelation of the Lord Jesus himself. This is the revelation of Jesus who is the savior of the entire world as he is working his saving grace. The Lake which burns with fire and brimstone is revealing our God!

Deut.4:24

The LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.

Deut. 9:3

Understand therefore this day, that the LORD thy God is he which goeth over before thee; as a consuming fire he shall destroy them, and he shall bring them down before thy face: so shalt thou drive them out, and destroy them quickly, as the LORD hath said unto thee.

Every stronghold, every bondage, every idol, every adversary that withholds the manifestation of the glory of the Lord, shall be consumed in the righteous judgment of the Lake of fire and brimstone. The Lake of Fire is a prophetic picture of the righteous judgment of the Lord Jesus himself as he abolishes all sin and death. This Lake which burns with holy fiery words and brimstone is the dealing of the Lord in which consumes all wood, hay and stubble; spiritually speaking of the lust of the flesh, the pride of life, the lust of the eyes, all shall be consumed by the washing of His holy fiery words of power and might.

Because of the gross misunderstanding of almost all people concerning the Lake of Fire, I will draw our attention to three words found in our text. “But the fearful, and unbelieving, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.”

The word burn means combustion, or to consume. To consume does not mean to annihilate, for there is no such thing as annihilation in the absolute and scientific sense. When fire consumes a log in your fireplace it does not destroy any of the elements within the log, it merely changes their form. Combustion is the process by which chemicals combine to form new chemicals. For example, a tree might be cut down, sawed into fire wood, and burned in your fireplace. When the wood is burning the heat causes the chemicals of which the wood is composed to vaporize, mixing with the oxygen in the air to form new chemicals, including water and the gas carbon dioxide. So what was formerly a tree is no longer identified as the form of a tree, but the substance thereof is now simply changed into a different form and exists in its new form within the atmosphere as water, carbon dioxide, etc.
Thus, to burn means to change! God is not speaking of our bodies being burned up in the Lake of Fire — the fire is spiritual fire and its work is a spiritual work upon our stubborn wills, our carnal minds, our flesh nature, our corrupt passions, and all that causes us to be cast into this divine processing of God! Furthermore, that fire does not burn down; it always burns up; it seeks the highest level. All that it consumes “goes up in smoke,” to exist in a new form in a higher dimension. Even if you take a pan of water and place it over a fire, before long the water will take on the property of the fire and will begin to go up in steam.

To burn means to change, and the change is always upward in motion!

Fire is the heat and light that you feel and see when something burns. It takes heat to start a fire, but once the fire is started it produces heat that keeps the process going. Thus, fire is really heat and light. The Lake of fire and brimstone signifies a fire burning with brimstone. The word ‘brimstone’ or sulphur defines the character of the fire. The Greek word theion translated ‘brimstone’ is exactly the same word theion which means ‘divine.’ Sulphur was sacred to the deity among the ancient Greeks; and was used to fumigate, to purify, and to cleanse and consecrate to the deity; for this purpose they burned it in their incense. In Homer’s Iliad (16:228), one is spoken of as purifying a goblet with fire and brimstone. The verb derived from theion is theioo which means to hallow, to make divine, or to dedicate to a god (See Liddell and Scott Greek-English Lexicon, 1897 Edition).

To any Greek, or any trained in the Greek language, a ‘lake of fire and brimstone’ would mean a ‘lake of divine purification.’ The idea of judgment need not be excluded. Divine purification and divine consecration are the plain meaning in ancient Greek. In the ordinary explanation, the fundamental meaning of the word is completely left out, and nothing but eternal torment is associated with it.

Fire means heat and light. Brimstone means divine. The Lake burning with fire and brimstone is, actually Divine heat (judgment), and light (illumination), producing a change! Is such a process eternal? All the laws of nature shout that it is not! More than 2500 hundred years ago the Holy Spirit warned the wicked inhabitants of Jerusalem that God would kindle a fire at Jerusalem’s gates which would devour her palaces. “But if ye will not hearken unto me then I will kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched” (Jer. 17:27). Did not God say this fire “shall not be quenched”? This prophecy was fulfilled and the fire did occur a few years later when Nebuchadnezzar’s armies devastated Jerusalem (Jer. 52) and the fire did destroy all the houses of Jerusalem. Since God said no person or thing would “quench” this fire, did that mean that it would burn forever?

That is what most people think when they hear of “unquenchable fire!”
The fire at Jerusalem accomplished the work it was sent to do, and since it is not burning today, it obviously went out by itself after accomplishing its purpose! Unquenchable fire is not eternal fire — it is simply fire than cannot be put out until it has consumed or changed everything it is possible for it to change! It then simply goes out, for there is nothing more to burn. Yet we hear the preachers ranting and raving about poor souls being cast into hell fire where “their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched” and this, we are told, means eternal, unending torment. How foolish, illogical, and deceptive! Such a view blatantly contradicts the plain meaning of the term “unquenchable” and its use in the Word of God.

J. Preston Eby writes, unbelief is to be void of faith, and the writer to the Hebrews assures us that “without faith it is impossible to please God” (Heb. 11:6). The message is just this: Unbelief is sin! Faith is the spiritual sense by which we recognize the presence, character, and purpose of God; both that He is, and that He rewards the seeker. Faith seeks for God; it believes that He is; it keeps the heart open towards Him; it bows in humility and hope for Him to make Himself known. To know God, to see God in everything, and everywhere, to hear in our heart His voice and His teaching, and in our daily life to be conscious of His presence so that we always walk with Him — this is the true nobility of the man of faith! This is the life that faith lives; this is the blessedness that Jesus has now fully revealed by coming by His spirit of sonship into our hearts, whereby we cry, “Abba, Father!” Faith can walk with God as a son of God! And it’s not our faith, but as Paul said, the life which we now live in the flesh we live by the faith of the Son of God who…gave Himself for (and to) us. Truly, He is both the author (origin, source) and the finisher (maturity, consummation, fullness) of our faith! Consider His faith! Jesus had faith to walk with the Father. He had faith to acknowledge and walk out His sonship to God. He had faith to speak as the oracle of God. He had faith to heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, feed multitudes with five loaves and two fish, walk on water, turn water into wine, raise the dead, forgive sins, and fulfill the whole purpose of the Father in His life even unto Calvary and the tomb, and to conquer death, hell, and the grave! Oh, yes! That, and much more, is the faith of the Son of God! To doubt that faith within ourselves, to neglect the growth and development of that faith, to be unbelieving of God’s call, purpose, and power in our lives would surely put us in the category of “the unbelieving” who must be purged and purified in the Lake of Fire!

When our God's fiery judgment is working in people's lives, the people shall learn and prosper.

Isa. 26:9

With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yes, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

The Lake of Fire and Brimstone is a spiritual picture of Jesus bringing righteous judgment of the love of God setting the captives free from sin, decay and death. ~Tim Wray
 

FineLinen

Well-Known Member
Punishment of ABBA is disciplinary.

The root-meaning of one of the chief words for punishment is that of pruning. The Lord of the harvest never prunes to kill, but to help. The persistence of the consequences of sin long after the sin is forgiven by God is doubtless intended so to deepen and burn in the lesson that the cause of punishment may be cured. God purposes to establish in righteousness, that the creature, even if he could, would not yield to sin.

Punishment is meant by God to be self-corrective. This is expressed in Jer. 2:19, "Thine own wickedness shall correct you, and your backsliding shall reprove you." This still is disciplinary, but it implies that in the punishment itself is a self-corrective element. The fermentation of liquids tends to their own purification. The principle of the modern disposal plant is that one germ of impurity devours another till all their malignity is destroyed.

God tells us what the harvest of sin is; "The wages of sin is death" (Rom. 6:23). This denotes all kinds of death, answering to the different kinds of sin. Sin always attempts to kill God. Its culmination was reached when it slew the Christ, but His death overcame "him (satan) that had the power of death" (Heb. 2:14). And through our Lord's death all death has been potentially destroyed, and will be actually and historically destroyed before the end of the ages, when the Son hands over the kingdom to the Father: "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." God has thus limited the extent of the consequences of evil. It, in one sense, wears itself out. Let no one say however that Christ, the Savior, is not needed. We have already indicated that slaying Him only promoted His plan of redemption. It cut away all our nature of flesh and blood that He had taken, and in Him we and the whole creation were potentially set free from all corruption and all harvests that are the consequence of sin and sins. "The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death" (Rom. 8:2).

What more does any one want than a punishment for sin that is fully adequate; that accords with absolute justice; that has the strongest sanctions that can be imagined, because not only of their greatness, but also because of their continuance even after forgiveness; a punishment that is not unnatural and unreasonable but that grows out of the creature's selfish actions; a punishment that so closely and continuously disciplines its author that the release can come only by an utter and forever putting away of the cause; a punishment that is not manufactured by an angry God, but whose cause and development depend entirely upon the creature and a fallen nature; a punishment that vindicates God's character for goodness, for He makes sin, even against its will, work for righteousness and also destroy its own harvest of all kinds of death, through the death that it wrought in His only and first begotten Son!

This is a sane and scriptural doctrine of punishment. "For God hath shut them all up for unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all. O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments, and His ways past finding out! For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been His counsellor? Or who hath first given to Him, and it shall be recompensed unto Him again.

For out of Him, and through Him, and unto Him, are all things: to whom be glory for the ages. Amen" ~Chas. H. Pridgeon
 
Last edited:

FineLinen

Well-Known Member
Witness of the Early Church Fathers

Irenaeus: (Bishop of Lyons) 130-200 A.D. He was Bishop of Lyons.

"I have a more vivid recollection of what occurred at that time than of recent events (inasmuch as the experiences of childhood, keeping pace with the growth of the soul, become incorporated with it): so that I can even describe the place where the blessed Polycarp used to sit and discourse--his going out, too, and his coming in--his general mode of life and personal appearance, together with the discourses which he delivered to the people; and how he would speak of his familiar intercourse with John, and with the rest of those who had seen the Lord." (-Fragments the Lost Writings of Irenaeus Vol. 1, page 568)

"Wherefore also He drove him (Adam) out of Paradise, and removed him far from the tree of life, not because He envied him the tree of life, as some dare to assert, but because He pitied him and desired that he should not continue always a sinner, and that the sin which surrounded him should not be immortal, and the evil interminable and irremediable."

Clement of Alexandria, 150-220 A.D

"The Lord is a propitiation not for our sins only but also for the whole world! Therefore He indeed saves all universally but some are converted by punishments, others by voluntary submission, thus obtaining the honor and dignity, that to Him 'every knee shall how of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth.'

"He punishes for their good those who are punished, whether collectively or individually."

"They perished until they turned to the Lord, by which the Lord signified that pardon had been granted, and that on being disciplined they had repented."

Theophilus, Bishop of Antioch, 160-181 A.D.

"And God showed great kindness to man in this, that He did not suffer him to continue being in sin forever; but, as it were by a kind of banishment, cast him out of Paradise, in order that, having by punishment expiated within an appointed time the sin, and having been disciplined, he should afterward be recalled. Wherefore, also when man had been formed in this world, it is mystically written in Genesis as if he had been twice placed in Paradise; so that the one was fulfilled when he was placed there, and the second will be fulfilled after the resurrection and judgment. Nay, further just as a vessel, when on being fashioned it has some flaw, is remolded or remade, that it may become new and entire; so also it happens to man by death. For he is broken up by force, that in the resurrection he may be found whole, I mean spotless and righteous and immortal."

Athenagoras, A.D. 177

"And as this follows of necessity; there must by all means be a resurrection of the bodies which are dead or even entirely dissolved, and the same men must be formed anew . . . for if this takes place, the end befitting the nature of men follows also. And the end of an intelligent life and of a rational judgment, we shall make no mistake in saying, is to be occupied uninterruptedly with those objects to which the natural reason is chiefly and primarily adapted, and to delight unceasingly in the contemplation of Him, who is, and of His decrees."

Origen 185-254 A.D.

"But he that despises the purification of the word of God and the doctrine of the Gospel only keeps himself for dreadful and penal purifications afterward; that so the fire of hell may purge him in torments whom neither apostolical doctrine nor gospel preaching has cleansed, according to that which is written of being 'purified by fire.' But how long this purification which is wrought out by penal fire shall endure, or for how many periods or ages it shall torment sinners, He only knows to whom all judgment is committed by the Father."

"The end of the world, then, and the final consummation will take place when every one shall be subjected to punishment for his sins; a time which God alone knows, when He will bestow on each one what he deserves. We think, indeed, that the goodness of God, through His Christ, may recall all His creatures to one end, even His enemies being conquered and subdued . . . 'For Christ must reign until He has put all enemies under His feet.' But if even that unreserved declaration of the apostle does not sufficiently inform us what is meant by 'enemies being placed under His feet,' listen to what he says in the following words, 'For all things must be put under Him.' What, then is this 'putting under' by which all things must be made subject to Christ? I am of opinion that it is this very subjection by which we also wish to be subject to Him, by which the apostles also were subject, and all the saints who have been followers of Christ. For the name 'subjection' by which we are subject to Christ, indicates that the salvation which proceeds from Him belongs to His subjects, agreeably to the declaration of David, ‘Shall not my soul be subject unto God? From Him cometh my salvation'." (Origen, De Principiis, Book 1, Chap. 6 )

"When thou hearest of the wrath of God, believe not that this wrath is a passion of God. It is a condescension of language, designed to convert and improve the child. . . . So God is described to us as angry, in order to our conversion and improvement, when in truth He is not angry." ( Origeniana, edited by Huet. f. 378.)

~To be continued
 
Last edited:

FineLinen

Well-Known Member
"God's mercy is so great that you may sooner drain the sea of its water, or deprive the sun of its light, or make space to narrow, than diminish the great mercy of God." ~Chas. Spurgeon
 

FineLinen

Well-Known Member
upload_2022-4-29_10-1-17.jpeg
 

FineLinen

Well-Known Member
ABBA's Perfect Plan
renderTimingPixel.png

  1. The atonement was not to satisfy God's justice, but to reveal His Love.
2. The justice of God is not against the sinner, demanding his condemnation, but for him, insuring his salvation.

3. God is not in contrast with, much less in opposition to Christ in the atonement, but in perfect harmony and accord.

4. The atonement is not the exclusive work of Christ in order to reconcile God unto the world, but it is the work of "God in Christ" to reconcile the world unto himself.

5. Christ does not have to plead with God in order to make him willing to pardon the sinner, but God, by his ministers, "beseeches" (II Cor. 5:20), the sinner to make them willing to be pardoned.

6. Hence the atonement is not to propitiate God, but man; not to make God favorably disposed toward man, but to make his already existing favor known to man.

7. Christ did not die as our substitute, but as our companion and associate; not instead of man, but with him and for him.

8. Christ did not die to save us from the penalty of sin, but from sin itself.

9. Christ did not die that we might not die, but to deliver us out of a death in which we were already involved.

10. The sinner is not redeemed because he repents, but he is called upon to repent because he has been redeemed.

11. The atonement is not the cause of God's love to man, giving rise to that love, but the effect, flowing out of that love.

12. The final outcome of the atoning scheme is not a partial success, but a perfect, absolute, and universal triumph!

ABBA's plan He cherishes!
 

FineLinen

Well-Known Member
"Carry off in Himself" =

The Last Adam takes away the sin of the world.

The entire world, lock stock and barrel are heading for reconciliation, not part of the world, the radical all of pas!

Both Adam's are figureheads. The first Adam failed, the Last Adam prevailed in exquisite dimensions of "all the more". The all the more triumphant Lord of the universe speaks of being the light in John.

That light is ginomai and leads to us becoming light just like Him. Becoming sons of light means to echo with resonance the Last Adam by being made in the action of becoming.

Takes away = airō =

To take upon one's self and carry away.

To bear away & carry off.

To remove. Cause to cease.
 

FineLinen

Well-Known Member
Who JAH bless, no man curse!

He comes to make His blessings flow far as the curse is found.

"And every curse will be broken and no longer exist, for the throne of God and of the Lamb will be there in the city. His loving servants will serve him." ~TPT

"The Angel showed me Water-of-Life River, crystal bright. It flowed from the Throne of God and the Lamb, right down the middle of the street. The Tree of Life was planted on each side of the River, producing twelve kinds of fruit, a ripe fruit each month. The leaves of the Tree are for healing the nations. Never again will anything be cursed. The Throne of God and of the Lamb is at the center." ~MSG

 
Last edited:

FineLinen

Well-Known Member
Today's word is not Hebrew or Greek, it's Inuit!

The word is issumagijoujunnainermik.

When missionaries first shared the gospel with the Inuit tribes in Alaska, they couldn't find any word in the Inuit language for forgiveness. So, they took a number of Inuit words and joined them to form a new word -- Issu-magi-jou-jun-nai-ner-mik -- and it became the Inuit word for forgiveness.

The individual words are "Not-being-able-to-think-about-it-anymore."
 

FineLinen

Well-Known Member
Outstanding news

The God of glory ultimately prevails

Every knee bows, every tongue confesses "You are Lord."

Please note

"Shall confess" = homologeo

1 John 4:15 =

"Whosoever shall confess (homologeo) that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God."

Romans 14:11 =

"For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow (kampto) to me, and every tongue shall confess (homologeo) to God.

 
Last edited:

FineLinen

Well-Known Member
If a man pays all he has for an entire flock of sheep, how many do you think he would take with him?

And how would he take possession of them?

Let's say that they are held inside a corral, would he open the gate and let them scatter over the pastures and hills as they all pleased?

Or would he back his truck and trailer to the loading ramp to guide and drive them out of the corral and into the cattle trailer?

If need be, I believe he would take hold of the reluctant ones and drag or carry them inside the trailer until there would not be one sheep left in the corral.

With patience and understanding, he would work with them until he was 100% successful in taking possession of all that he paid for. Not one would be lost or left behind.
 

FineLinen

Well-Known Member

  • This speaks very clearly of what the original manuscripts say about Jesus pouring out His blood for all the people in the world. By doing, then eventually taking them ALL into His possession, even the unwilling ones. In John 12:32, He said: "If I be lifted up from the earth, will draw (Grk. drag) ALL unto me."

    However, with the influence of some translations, another, and very different, story is told about the Lord and those for which He paid the full price. If using the same scenario, it would go something like this:

    "After the man paid the agreed price for a flock of sheep, he wants to take possession of them all; but due to their "sacred free-will" he knows that such is impossible. So he opens the gate with hopes that his loving invitation of a new life will entice them to walk up the ramp and into the trailer. Of course, he knows only one or two of them will do so, while the others have no intention of accepting a new lifestyle. Therefore, he might threaten them with being eternally tortured with fire and demons after they run free and finally die. He might get one or two more to fearfully jump into the trailer; but he drives home nearly empty handed while the rest of the sheep he bought runs and frolics over the pastures and hills to face a horrible fate after exercising their irrevokable free-will."

    Really, folks, would anybody settle for only one or two that happen to chose to walk through the gate and into your trailer after it was opened? How about you? Would you really just invite them to come out of captivity? Or would you go inside and drive, and drag, if necessary, each and every one out of the prison corral?

    We know the answer, and Jesus will do no less. Since He paid the price for all, He will not stop driving, drawing, and dragging until ALL are in His sacrificial arms of power and love. He will totally succeed in that for which His Father sent to do, which was to be the Savior of the world, the WHOLE world, ALL the world.

    Religious mind-sets cause people to believe that a person cannot be saved except by the volition of one's own will. There is a willful act when a man or woman confesses Jesus as their Lord; but this will originates in Christ and not man. Without the Spirit drawing upon their hearts, it is impossible for those of the natural mind to desire the living God.

    For instance, Paul said that "The carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." Romans 8:7. And Jesus made it crystal clear, "No man can come to Me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him..." John 6:44. However, there will be a day when every man, every woman, and every child will know God; for again, as mentioned above, Jesus assured us: "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will *draw all men unto Me" John 12:32.

    *draw (Grk. helku helk : to drag, [literally], ~Elwin Roach
 
Top