1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured The Restitution Of All Things

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by FineLinen, May 10, 2019.

  1. FineLinen

    FineLinen Active Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2019
    Messages:
    386
    Ratings:
    +12
    Religion:
    non denominational
  2. FineLinen

    FineLinen Active Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2019
    Messages:
    386
    Ratings:
    +12
    Religion:
    non denominational
  3. FineLinen

    FineLinen Active Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2019
    Messages:
    386
    Ratings:
    +12
    Religion:
    non denominational
    "What I believe is so magnificent, so glorious, that it is beyond finite comprehension. To believe that the universe was created by a purposeful, benign Creator is one thing. To believe that this Creator took on human vesture, accepted death and mortality, was tempted, betrayed, broken, and all for love of us, defies reason. It is so wild that it terrifies some Christians who try to dogmatize their fear by lashing out at other Christians, because tidy Christianity with all answers given is easier than one which reaches out to the wild wonder of God's love, a love we don't even have to earn." -Madeleine L'Engle-

    apokastastasis=

    Universalism: a historical survey by Richard Bauckham (Professor of New Testament Studies)

    https://theologicalstudies.org.uk/ar..._bauckham.html

    MORE: more than we can ask or even think.
     
  4. FineLinen

    FineLinen Active Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2019
    Messages:
    386
    Ratings:
    +12
    Religion:
    non denominational
    Love’s Goal

    All that love is, God is, for God is love. As the negative side of love is unselfish - seeks not her own - so her positive side is concern for others, a deep, ardent, all consuming concern: dauntless, self-sacrificing, invincible. “Love never fails.” Such is the divine essence and this it is that is imparted to the creature.

    There can be no self-complacency with God, neither could He provide a self-satisfied salvation. Divine joy is in the fullness of love, and love is all-embracing.

    To speak of a happy shepherd with an incomplete flock, or even of a happy flock with comrades missing, would be to malign both sheep and shepherd.

    Heaven’s joys will be full only when sin’s sorrow cease. “Tis of mine” will be the yearning cry of the Good Shepherd spirit in the bosom of both saint and Saviour until the last of all the lost has been gathered home. Love cannot omit; His soul travail was for all. Neither can love abandon or forget. His purpose, as His promise, is “until He find it”. Thus it is that He is yet to “see of the travail of His soul and be satisfied.” And surely we too shall be satisfied when conformed to this likeness. Oh, the fullness of heaven’s joy when sin’s sorrows shall have ceased! -D. Buchanan-

    99 is NOT enough!
     
  5. FineLinen

    FineLinen Active Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2019
    Messages:
    386
    Ratings:
    +12
    Religion:
    non denominational
  6. FineLinen

    FineLinen Active Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2019
    Messages:
    386
    Ratings:
    +12
    Religion:
    non denominational
    Once in a while on Christian threads a post appears that is exquisite. This is one of them.

    "The reason hell is such a dangerous doctrine is because we become exactly like the God we worship . If we worship a God who tortures people endlessly for finite transgressions, that has a way of changing who we are in a very ugly way. If we worship a God who is love, who forgives seventy times seven and then some, who doesn’t leave us or abandon us no matter where we go, who loves enemies, who tells us not to judge, who is the perfect love that casts out fear…then that weaves its way into who we are and how we act.

    And you cannot just “read his word and understand his decrees.” First of all, his “word” is the living Christ, not a book, and reading and understanding requires interpretation, which is always through a veil of psychological projection, cultural influences, personal biases, IQ, and God knows what else, so it’s never that easy. Thousands of biblical experts and theologians throughout the centuries have been wrong too many times to list." -kmom2-
     
  7. FineLinen

    FineLinen Active Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2019
    Messages:
    386
    Ratings:
    +12
    Religion:
    non denominational
    The Scope Of Restitution=

    "But (now) to each one of us was (is) given the Grace down from (in accord with) the measure of the undeserved gift of the Christ. For this reason He (it) is constantly saying, "Going up (stepping up; ascending) into a height (unto [the] summit) He led (leads) captive a captive multitude [or: He led "captivity" captive] He gave (gives) gifts to mankind (or: to/for the men)." Now (but) this "He went up (ascended)," what is it if not (except) that He also descended (stepped down) into the lower parts (the under regions) of the earth (land)? The One stepping down (descending) is Himself also the One stepping (going) up (ascending) far above (back up over) all of the heavens, to the end that He may make the Whole full [or: may fill up everything (the All)]. -Jonathan Mitchell N.T.-

    Weymouth New Testament Bible

    Read the Weymouth New Testament Free Online

    "There is but one Lord, one faith, one baptism, and one God and Father of all, who rules over all, acts through all, and dwells in all. Yet to each of us individually grace was given, measured out with the munificence of Christ. For this reason Scripture says: 'He re-ascended on high, He led captive a host of captives, and gave gifts to men.' (Now this 're-ascended' --what does it mean but that He had first descended into the lower regions of the earth? He who descended is the same as He who ascended again far above all the Heavens in order to fill the universe."

    Note

    He will fill the Universe (everything)!

    "For Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was in preparation, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved thru water...Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead...for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit."
     
  8. FineLinen

    FineLinen Active Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2019
    Messages:
    386
    Ratings:
    +12
    Religion:
    non denominational
    Where is Waldo?

     
  9. FineLinen

    FineLinen Active Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2019
    Messages:
    386
    Ratings:
    +12
    Religion:
    non denominational
    Questions Requiring Answers

    1. Would not endless punishment be the return of evil for evil?

    2. As we are commanded "to overcome evil with good," may we not safely infer that God will do the same? (Rom. 12:21)

    3. Would the infliction of endless punishment be overcoming evil with good?

    4. If God hates the sinner, does the sinner do wrong in hating Him?

    5. Is God a changeable being? (James 1:17)

    6. If God loves His enemies now, will he not always love them?

    7. Is it just for God to be "kind to the evil and unthankful," in their present life? (Luke 6:35)

    8. Would it be unjust for God to be kind to all men in a future state?

    9. If all men justly deserve endless punishment, will not those who are saved, be saved unjustly?

    10. If God "will by no means clear the guilty," by what means can just punishment be evaded? (Ex. 34:7)

    11. As no man can measure endless punishment to his neighbor, will endless punishment be measured to him? (Luke 4:38)

    12. Would it be merciful in God to inflict endless punishment? -- that is, merciful to the sufferer?

    13. Can that be just which is not merciful?

    14. Do not cruelty and injustice go hand in hand?

    15. Can that be merciful which is not just?

    -A. C. Thomas- -
     
  10. FineLinen

    FineLinen Active Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2019
    Messages:
    386
    Ratings:
    +12
    Religion:
    non denominational
    "For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."

    Questions=

    1. How many are "made sinners" by one man's disobedience?

    2. How many are "made righteous" by one?

    3. How much is "many"?

    4. Are both sides equal?

    Many>>>>>>Many

    What is an equation?

    Equation=

    n. The act or process of equating or of being equated.

    n. The state of being equal.

    n. A statement asserting the equality of two expressions, usually written as a linear array of symbols that are separated into left and right sides and joined by an equal sign.
     
  11. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

    Joined:
    May 1, 2017
    Messages:
    2,527
    Ratings:
    +1,011
    Religion:
    No Religion. I Sense The Higher Power.
    Is this a religion that saves all? Universalist?

    Or is this a religion where only the elect are saved?
    And all else eternal doom or removed from existence?
     
  12. FineLinen

    FineLinen Active Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2019
    Messages:
    386
    Ratings:
    +12
    Religion:
    non denominational
    Dear Osgart: This is not a religion, but a Father who saves the all (ta panta). It is also a Father who saves the "especially" in extraordinary dimensions, but is the God who IS the Saviour of all mankind. The final chapter of His Plan is not consummated at the moment, but fear not, in the final chapter there is NO CURSE and the all transformed and made new.
     
  13. FineLinen

    FineLinen Active Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2019
    Messages:
    386
    Ratings:
    +12
    Religion:
    non denominational
    THE W said

    Clearly you don't know that either as that verse says nothing about the gospel being preached to the deceased. dead means spiritually dead. those dead in sin are souls in prison(ephesians 2:1-5). the power of the gospel frees them from their prison. the gospel both condemns the sinner for falling short of God's glory(judges them as men in the flesh) as well as provides a way of redemption(live according to God in the Spirit...or zao).
    there are no seconds chances bud...sorry.=

    Dear W:

    Our Father's purposes are not rooted in chance, first, second, third! This is NOT a Heavenly gambling casino!!

    "Who shall render an account unto him who is holding in readiness to judge living and dead; for, unto this end, even unto the dead, was the glad-message delivered,—in order that they might be judged, indeed, according to men in flesh, but might live according to God in spirit." -Rotherham Emphasized-

    Dead=

    nekros= a corpse (from nekus)=

    Breathed his last/ lifeless.

    Deceased/ departed.

    Destitute of life/ without life.

    Inanimate.

    Disobedient= apeitheo=

    Not to allow one’s self to be persuaded.

    To refuse or withhold belief & obedience.

    To refuse belief and obedience.

    Not to comply with.

    Live= zao=

    To be alive with resurrection life.
     
  14. FineLinen

    FineLinen Active Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2019
    Messages:
    386
    Ratings:
    +12
    Religion:
    non denominational
    Aionios=

    The New Testament in Modern Speech, by Dr. R. F. Weymouth

    Eternal: Greek: “aeonion,” i.e., “of the ages.” Etymologically this adjective, like others similarly formed, does not signify “during,” but “belong to” the aeons or ages."

    The Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible (vol. IV, p. 643)

    Time: The O.T. and the N.T. are not acquainted with the conception of eternity as timelessness. The O.T. has not developed a special term for “eternity.” The word aion originally meant “vital force,” “life,” then “age,” “lifetime.”

    Elliot’s Commentary on the Whole Bible (Matt. 25:46)

    Everlasting punishment–life eternal. The two adjectives represent the same Greek word, aionios-it must be admitted that the Greek word which is rendered “eternal” does not, in itself, involve endlessness, but rather, duration, whether through an age or succession of ages, and that it is therefore applied in the N.T. to periods of time that have had both a beginning and ending (Rom. 16:25).

    Hasting’s Dictionary of the New Testament (Vol. I, p. 542, art. Christ and the Gospels)

    Eternity. There is no word either in the O.T. Hebrew or the N.T. Greek to express the abstract idea of eternity. (Vol. III, p. 369): Eternal, everlasting-nonetheless “eternal” is misleading, inasmuch as it has come in the English to connote the idea of “endlessly existing,” and thus to be practically a synonym for “everlasting.” But this is not an adequate rendering of aionios which varies in meaning with the variations of the noun aion from which it comes. (p. 370):

    The chronoios aioniois moreover, are not to be thought of as stretching backward everlastingly, as it is proved by the pro chronon aionion of II Tim. 1:9; Titus. 1:2. (Note: pro chronon aionion means “BEFORE times eonian.” Since this Scripture tells us that there was time “before” eonian, eionian cannot possibly mean eternal, for nothing can be “before” eternity.)

    The large Catholic Bible dictionary, The Encyclopedic Dictionary of the Bible (p. 693)

    ETERNITY: The Bible hardly speaks of eternity in the philosophical sense of infinite duration without beginning or end. The Hebrew word olam, which is used alone (Ps. 61:8; etc.) or with various prepositions (Gen. 3:22; etc.) in contexts where it is traditionally translated as ‘forever,’ means in itself no more than 'for an indefinitely long period." Thus me olam does not mean ‘from eternity’ but ‘of old’ Gen. 6:4; etc.). In the N.T. aion is used as the equivalent of olam. (Note: even the Catholic translators of The Jerusalem Bible and The New American Bible have failed to heed the scholarship of their own Catholic authorities.)

    Dr. R. F. Weymouth, a translator who was adept in Greek, states in The New Testament in Modern Speech (p. 657)

    Eternal, Greek aeonion, i.e., of the ages: Etymologically this adjective, like others similarly formed does not signify, “during” but “belonging to” the aeons or ages.

    Dr. Marvin Vincent, Word Studies of the New Testament (Vol. IV, p. 59).

    The adjective aionios in like manner carries the idea of time. Neither the noun nor the adjective in themselves carries the sense of “endless” or "everlasting.’ Anionios means enduring through or pertaining to a period of time.

    Dr. F. W. Farrar, author of The Life of Christ and The Life and Word of St. Paul, as well as books about Greek grammar and syntax, writes in The Eternal Hope (p. 198)

    In Dr. Farrar’s book, Mercy and Judgment, (p. 378)

    “Since aion meant ‘age,’ aionios means, properly, ‘belonging to an age,’ or ‘age-long,’ and anyone who asserts that it must mean ‘endless’ defends a position which even Augustine practically abandoned twelve centuries ago. Even if aion always meant ‘eternity,’ which is not the case in classic or Hellenistic Greek- aionios could still mean only ‘belonging to eternity’ and not 'lasting through it.”

    The Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible, (Vol. 4, p. 641)

    “The O.T. and the N.T. are not acquainted with the concept of eternity as timelessness.” Page 655: “The O.T. has not developed a special term for eternity.” Page 645: “The use of the word aion in the N.T. is determined very much by the O.T. and the LXX. Aion means long, distant, uninterrupted time. The intensifying plural occurs frequently in the N.T. but it adds no new meaning.”

    Dr. Edward Plumptre, an eschatologist

    “I fail to find, as is used by the Greek Fathers, any instance in which the idea of time duration is unlimited.”

    Time and Eternity by G. T. Stevenson, (p. 63)

    “Since, as we have seen, the noun aion refers to a period of time it appears, very improbable that the derived adjective aionios would indicate infinite duration, nor have we found any evidence in Greek writing to show that such a concept was expressed by this term.”

    Professor Herman Oldhausen, German Lutheran theologian

    “The Bible has no expression for endlessness. All the Biblical terms imply or denote long periods.”

    Professor Knappe of Halle wrote

    “The Hebrew was destitute of any single word to express endless duration. The pure idea of eternity is not found in any of the ancient languages.”

    An Alphabetical Analysis by Charles H. Welch (Editor of The Berean Expositor and a man well versed in Greek), (Vol. 1, p. 279)

    “Eternity is not a Biblical theme.” (Vol. 1, p. 52), “What we have to learn is that the Bible does not speak of eternity. It is not written to tell us of eternity. Such a consideration is entirely outside the scope of revelation.”

    Dr. Mangey, a translator of the writings of Philo, says

    “Philo did not use aionios to express endless duration.”

    The Complete Works of Falvius Josephus.

    Josephus obviously did not consider anionios to be “everlasting,” seeing that he uses the word to represent the period of time between the giving of the law of Moses and that of his own writing [clearly not an eternity] . He also assigns aionios to the period of imprisonment of the tyrant John by the Romans [clearly he was not imprisoned for an eternity] , and also for the period during which Herod’s temple stood [since Herod’s temple was not even standing at the time Josephus wrote, it too proves that Josephus did not mean ‘eternity’ when he wrote ‘aionios’] .

    Saint Gregory of Nyssa speaks of anionios diastema

    “an eonian interval.” How many intervals do you know of that are “endless” or “eternal?”

    Saint Chrysostum, in his homily on Eph. 2:1-3

    “Satan’s kingdom is aeonian; that is, it will cease with the present world.”

    Saint Justin Martyr, in the Apol. (p. 57)

    Used the word aionios repeatedly: aionion kolasin…all ouchi chiliontaete periodon, “eonian chastening but a period, not a thousand years,” or as some translate this clause “but a period of a thousand years only.” Hence, to Justin Martyr, aionios was certainly not “endless.”

    Dr. O.B. Jenkins

    Time or Character, The Ages or A Time Sequence in <em>aionios</em>: How Words "Mean" in Greek and English
     
    #194 FineLinen, Aug 5, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2019
  15. FineLinen

    FineLinen Active Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2019
    Messages:
    386
    Ratings:
    +12
    Religion:
    non denominational
  16. FineLinen

    FineLinen Active Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2019
    Messages:
    386
    Ratings:
    +12
    Religion:
    non denominational
    Dr. Marvin Vincent

    olethron aionion in 2Th. 1:9:


    ‘Aion, transliterated aeon, is a period of longer or shorter duration, having a beginning and an end, and complete in itself. Aristotle (peri ouravou, i. 9,15) says: “The period which includes the whole time of one’s life is called the aeon of each one.” Hence it often means the life of a man, as in Homer, where one’s life (aion) is said to leave him or to consume away (Iliad v. 685; Odyssey v. 160). It is not, however, limited to human life; it signifies any period in the course of events, as the period or age before Christ; the period of the millenium; the mythological period before the beginnings of history. The word has not “a stationary and mechanical value” (De Quincey). It does not mean a period of a fixed length for all cases. There are as many aeons as entities, the respective durations of which are fixed by the normal conditions of the several entities.

    There is one aeon of a human life, another of the life of a nation, another of a crow’s life, another of an oak’s life. The length of the aeon depends on the subject to which it is attached.

    It is sometimes translated world; world represents a period or a series of periods of time. See Matt 12:32; 13:40,49; Luke 1:70; 1 Cor 1:20; 2:6; Eph 1:21. Similarly oi aiones, the worlds, the universe, the aggregate of the ages or periods, and their contents which are included in the duration of the world. 1 Cor 2:7; 10:11; Heb 1:2; 9:26; 11:3. The word always carries the notion of time, and not of eternity.

    It always means a period of time. Otherwise it would be impossible to account for the plural, or for such qualifying expressions as this age, or the age to come.

    It does not mean something endless or everlasting. To deduce that meaning from its relation to aei is absurd; for, apart from the fact that the meaning of a word is not definitely fixed by its derivation, aei does not signify endless duration. When the writer of the Pastoral Epistles quotes the saying that the Cretans are always (aei) liars (Tit. 1:12), he surely does not mean that the Cretans will go on lying to all eternity. See also Acts 7:51; 2 Cor. 4:11; 6:10; Heb 3:10; 1 Pet. 3:15. Aei means habitually or continually within the limit of the subject’s life. In our colloquial dialect everlastingly is used in the same way. “The boy is everlastingly tormenting me to buy him a drum.”

    In the New Testament the history of the world is conceived as developed through a succession of aeons. A series of such aeons precedes the introduction of a new series inaugurated by the Christian dispensation, and the end of the world and the second coming of Christ are to mark the beginning of another series. Eph. 1:21; 2:7; 3:9,21; 1 Cor 10:11; compare Heb. 9:26. He includes the series of aeons in one great aeon, ‘o aion ton aionon, the aeon of the aeons (Eph. 3:21); and the author of the Epistle to the Hebrews describe the throne of God as enduring unto the aeon of the aeons (Heb 1:8). The plural is also used, aeons of the aeons, signifying all the successive periods which make up the sum total of the ages collectively. Rom. 16:27; Gal. 1:5; Philip. 4:20, etc. This plural phrase is applied by Paul to God only.

    The adjective aionios in like manner carries the idea of time. Neither the noun nor the adjective, in themselves, carry the sense of endless or everlasting.

    They may acquire that sense by their connotation, as, on the other hand, aidios, which means everlasting, has its meaning limited to a given point of time in Jude 6. Aionios means enduring through or pertaining to a period of time. Both the noun and the adjective are applied to limited periods. Thus the phrase eis ton aiona, habitually rendered forever, is often used of duration which is limited in the very nature of the case. See, for a few out of many instances, LXX, Exod 21:6; 29:9; 32:13; Josh. 14:9 1 Sam 8:13; Lev. 25:46; Deut. 15:17; 1 Chron. 28:4;. See also Matt. 21:19; John 13:8 1 Cor. 8:13. The same is true of aionios. Out of 150 instances in LXX, four-fifths imply limited duration. For a few instances see Gen. 48:4; Num. 10:8; 15:15; Prov. 22:28; Jonah 2:6; Hab. 3:6; Isa. 61:17.

    Words which are habitually applied to things temporal or material cannot carry in themselves the sense of endlessness. Even when applied to God, we are not forced to render aionios everlasting.

    Of course the life of God is endless; but the question is whether, in describing God as aionios, it was intended to describe the duration of his being, or whether some different and larger idea was not contemplated. That God lives longer then men, and lives on everlastingly, and has lived everlastingly, are, no doubt, great and significant facts; yet they are not the dominant or the most impressive facts in God’s relations to time.

    God’s eternity does not stand merely or chiefly for a scale of length. It is not primarily a mathematical but a moral fact. The relations of God to time include and imply far more than the bare fact of endless continuance. They carry with them the fact that God transcends time; works on different principles and on a vaster scale than the wisdom of time provides; oversteps the conditions and the motives of time; marshals the successive aeons from a point outside of time, on lines which run out into his own measureless cycles, and for sublime moral ends which the creature of threescore and ten years cannot grasp and does not even suspect.

    There is a word for everlasting if that idea is demanded.

    That aiodios occurs rarely in the New Testament and in LXX does not prove that its place was taken by aionios. It rather goes to show that less importance was attached to the bare idea of everlastingness than later theological thought has given it. Paul uses the word once, in Rom. 1:20, where he speaks of “the everlasting power and divinity of God.” In Rom. 16:26 he speaks of the eternal God (tou aioniou theou); but that he does not mean the everlasting God is perfectly clear from the context. He has said that “the mystery” has been kept in silence in times eternal (chronois aioniois), by which he does not mean everlasting times, but the successive aeons which elapsed before Christ was proclaimed. God therefore is described as the God of the aeons, the God who pervaded and controlled those periods before the incarnation. To the same effect is the title ‘o basileus ton aionon, the King of the aeons, applied to God in 1 Tim. 1:17; Rev. 15:3; compare Tob. 13:6, 10.

    The phrase pro chronon aionion, before eternal times (2 Tim. 1:9; Tit. 1:2), cannot mean before everlasting times. To say that God bestowed grace on men, or promised them eternal life before endless times, would be absurd. The meaning is of old, as Luke 1:70. The grace and the promise were given in time, but far back in the ages, before the times of reckoning the aeons.

    Zoe aionios eternal life, which occurs 42 times in N. T., but not in LXX, is not endless life, but life pertaining to a certain age or aeon, or continuing during that aeon. I repeat, life may be endless. The life in union with Christ is endless, but the fact is not expressed by aionios. Kolasis aionios, rendered everlasting punishment (Matt. 25:46), is the punishment peculiar to an aeon other then that in which Christ is speaking. In some cases zoe aionios does not refer specifically to the life beyond time, but rather to the aeon or dispensation of Messiah which succeeds the legal dispensation. See Matt. 19:16; John 5:39. John says that zoe aionios is the present possession of those who believe on the Son of God, John 3:36; 5:24; 6:47,54. The Father’s commandment is zoe aionios, John 1250; to know the only true God and Jesus Christ is zoe aionios. John 17:3.

    Bishop Westcott very justly says, commenting upon the terms used by John to describe life under different aspects: “In considering these phrases it is necessary to premise that in spiritual things we must guard against all conclusions which rest upon the notions of succession and duration. ‘Eternal life’ is that which St. Paul speaks of as ‘e outos Zoe the life which is life indeed, and ‘e zoe tou theou, the life of God. It is not an endless duration of being in time, but being of which time is not a measure. We have indeed no powers to grasp the idea except through forms and images of sense. These must be used, but we must not transfer them as realities to another order.”

    -To be continued-
     
  17. FineLinen

    FineLinen Active Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2019
    Messages:
    386
    Ratings:
    +12
    Religion:
    non denominational
    Thus, while aionios carries the idea of time, though not of endlessness, there belongs to it also, more or less, a sense of quality. Its character is ethical rather than mathematical.

    The deepest significance of the life beyond time lies, not in endlessness, but in the moral quality of the aeon into which the life passes. It is comparatively unimportant whether or not the rich fool, when his soul was required of him (Luke 12:20), entered upon a state that was endless. The principal, the tremendous fact, as Christ unmistakably puts it, was that, in the new aeon, the motives, the aims, the conditions, the successes and awards of time counted for nothing. In time, his barns and their contents were everything; the soul was nothing. In the new life the soul was first and everything, and the barns and storehouses nothing. The bliss of the sanctified does not consist primarily in its endlessness, but in the nobler moral conditions of the new aeon, the years of the holy and eternal God. Duration is a secondary idea. When it enters it enters as an accompaniment and outgrowth of moral conditions.

    In the present passage it is urged that olethron destruction points to an unchangeable, irremediable, and endless condition.

    If this be true, if olethros is extinction, then the passage teaches the annihilation of the wicked, in which case the adjective aionios is superfluous, since extinction is final, and excludes the idea of duration. But olethros does not always mean destruction or extinction. Take the kindred verb apollumi to destroy, put an end to, or in the middle voice, to be lost, to perish. Peter says “the world being deluged with water, perished (apoleto, 2 Pet. 3:6); but the world did not become extinct, it was renewed. In Heb. 1:11,12, quoted from Ps. 102, we read concerning the heavens and the earth as compared with the eternity of God, “they shall perish” (apolountai). But the perishing is only preparatory to change and renewal. “They shall be changed” (allagesontai). Compare Isa. 51:6,16; 65:22; 2 Pet. 3:13; Rev. 21:1. Similarly, “the Son of man came to save that which was lost” (apololos), Luke 19:10. Jesus charged his apostles to go to the lost (apololota) sheep of the house of Israel, Matt. 10:6, compare 15:24, “He that shall lose (apolese) his life for my sake shall find it,” Matt. 16:25. Compare Luke 15:6,9,32.

    In this passage, the word destruction is qualified.

    It is “destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his power,” at his second coming, in the new aeon. In other words, it is the severance, at a given point of time, of those who obey not the gospel from the presence and the glory of Christ. Aionios may therefore describe this severance as continuing during the millenial aeon between Christ’s coming and the final judgment; as being for the wicked prolonged throughout that aeon and characteristic of it, or it may describe the severance as characterising or enduring through a period or aeon succeeding the final judgment, the extent of which period is not defined. In neither case is aionios, to be interpreted as everlasting or endless.

    If we cross-reference olethros with 1Co. 5:5, with its derivative olothrūo in He. 11:28, we will see that utter annihilation does not fit. For example, take the extermination of the “first-born” of Egypt (He. 11:28): Were all these innocent babies utterly annihilated before God? Also, though Satan destroys the flesh of the saved, we know God restores it in the resurrection (1Co. 5:5). Even were God to utterly annihilate someone, has He not the power to restore (De. 32:39; 1Sa. 2:6; Mt. 3:9)?

    Also, if we cross-reference olethros with 1Co. 5:5, with its derivative olothrūo in He. 11:28, we will see that utter annihilation does not fit. For example, take the extermination of the “first-born” of Egypt (He. 11:28): Were all these innocent babies utterly annihilated before God? Also, though Satan destroys the flesh of the saved, we know God restores it in the resurrection (1Co. 5:5). Even were God to utterly annihilate someone, has He not the power to restore (De. 32:39; 1Sa. 2:6; Mt. 3:9)?

    -Part 2 of 2-
     
  18. FineLinen

    FineLinen Active Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2019
    Messages:
    386
    Ratings:
    +12
    Religion:
    non denominational
    Kolasis aionion -Matthew 25:46-

    Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46

    “The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God’s punishment is always for man’s cure.”

    Fifteen literally translated (not interpretively translated) Bibles that reveal what God will do with the sinners in Matthew 25:46

    Concordant Literal, Young’s literal, Wilson’s Emphatic Diaglott, Rotherham’s Emphasized, Scarlett’s, J.W. Hanson’s New Covenant, Twentieth Century, Ferrar Fenton, The Western New Testament, Weymouth’s (unedited), Clementson’s, The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed, The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible, Bullinger’s Companion Bible margins, Jonathan Mitchell’s translation (2010).

    Concerning the duration of kolasis (literally - corrective punishment), Matt. 25:46 says (KJV),

    “And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into life eternal.”

    Scarlett’s New Testament written in 1792 has “aeonian punishment” in place to “everlasting punishment.”

    “And these will go away into aeonian punishment: but the righteous into aeonian life.”

    The New Covenant by Dr. J.W. Hanson written in 1884 renders Matt. 25:46:

    “And these shall go away into aeonian chastisement, and the just into aeonian life.”

    Young’s Literal Translation first published in 1898 and reprinted many times since uses the following words:

    “And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.”

    Professor Young also compiled Young’s Concordance, where one can check the translation of each Hebrew or Greek word as translated in the KJV.

    The Twentieth Century New Testament first printed in the year 1900 has:

    “And these last will go away ‘into aeonian punishment,’ but the righteous ‘into aeonian life.’”

    The Holy Bible in Modern English by Ferrar Fenton first published in 1903 gives the rendering:

    "And these He will dismiss into a long correction, but the well-doers to an enduring life.

    The New Testament in Modern Speech, by Dr. Weymouth, says:

    “And these shall go away into punishment of the ages, but the righteous into life of the ages.”

    Dr. Weymouth most frequently adopts such terms as “life of the ages,” “fire of the ages;” and in Rev. 14:6, “The good news of the ages.”

    It is a matter to regret that the editors of the most recent edition of Dr. Weymouth’s version have reverted to the KJV renderings for the passages containing the Greek word aion, eon, or age.

    The Western New Testament published in 1926 renders Matt. 25:46 as follows:

    “And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into life eternal.”

    The translation, however, has a footnote on Matthew 21:19 on the word “forever” which is the same word for “eternal” which says: "Literally, for the age.”

    Clementson’s The New Testament (1938) shows,

    “And these shall go away into eonian correction, but the righteous into eonian life.”

    Wilson’s Emphatic Diaglott (1942 edition) translates the verse,

    “And these shall go forth to the aionian cutting-off; but the righteous to aionian life.”

    It should be noted that the “cutting-off” refers to pruning a fruit tree to make it bear more fruit.

    The idea behind the word is not destructive but productive! Had Jesus wanted to emphasize a destructive end, He would have used the word “timoria.”

    The Concordant Version (1930):

    “And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian.”

    The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed printed in 1958 says:

    “And these shall go away into agelasting cutting-off and the just into agelasting life.”

    Joseph B. Rotherham, in his Emphasized Bible (1959), translates this verse,

    “and these shall go away into age-abiding correction, but the righteous into age-abiding life.”

    The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible copyrighted in 1976

    has “age-abiding correction” instead of “everlasting punishment.”

    Jonathan Mitchell’s translation (2010) has

    "And so, these folks will be going off into an eonian pruning (a lopping-off which lasts for an undetermined length of time; an age-lasting correction; a pruning which has its source and character in the Age), yet the fair and just folks who are in right relationship and are in accord with the Way pointed out [go off] into eonian life (life which has it source and character in the Age; life pertaining to the Age)”.

    Even some King James Study Bibles will show the reader in the margins or appendixes that the King’s translators were incorrect in their rendering of "eternal punishment.”

    The great Companion Bible by Dr. Bullinger is an example of that.

    Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46

    “The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God’s punishment is always for man’s cure.”

    [​IMG] Logged
    In the Christian story God descends to reascend. He comes d
     
  19. FineLinen

    FineLinen Active Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2019
    Messages:
    386
    Ratings:
    +12
    Religion:
    non denominational
    Here on this mountain, God-of-the-Angel-Armies will throw a feast for all the people of the world,

    A feast of the finest foods, a feast with vintage wines, a feast of seven courses, a feast lavish with gourmet desserts.

    And here on this mountain, God will banish the pall of doom hanging over all peoples, the shadow of doom darkening all nations.

    Yes, he’ll banish death forever. And God will wipe the tears from every face. He’ll remove every sign of disgrace from his people, wherever they are.

    Yes! God says so!
     
  20. FineLinen

    FineLinen Active Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2019
    Messages:
    386
    Ratings:
    +12
    Religion:
    non denominational
Loading...