On another recent thread, unbelievers were asked why they participate in a religious forum. This is why. Where else am I going to see how religion affects people except in the news, which is really only religious scandals, not psychological probing. I described this activity as atheist school, which has both a lecture and a lab section. Examining the believers and tapping the glass so to speak is the best view of religion available to outsiders.
Incidentally, it was because of witnessing so much of this kind of carnage that I have become anti-theiistic, by which I mean that I consider religion and faith-based thought a net harm to humanity, and would like to see less of it everywhere. Who else is going to write like you do but a theist indoctrinated to believe that a liberal education is harmful?
About that. I'd like to submit an application for the job of god of the universe. I think I could do a better job. For starters, all animals would be vegetarians. No more roaring lions chasing terrified zebras and tearing them apart for food. Also, no birth defects. That's off the top of my head.
No, that's church. Brainwashing, or indoctrination, is the manner of training people by repetition of unsupported claims until they believe it or get chastised for not believing it. It's what's used by religions, advertisers, and propagandists.
The proper way to teach is the model we see in public schools and universities. The conclusions that great thinkers have offered are examined, including the evidence that led to those conclusions and any attending argument used to arrive at them. In this way, you will learn critical thinking, how to make sound arguments, and how to recognize logical fallacies. You will not be asked if you believe it - just if you learned what was presented in the course.
Transforming from the one to the other converted astrology to astronomy, alchemy to chemistry, and creationism to cosmology and biology. In each case a sterile line of thought was converted to a productive one.
Your use of the word "wicked" piqued my interest. You remind me of al-Ghazali mentioned in the last paragraph of this excerpt from a talk by Neil DeGrasse Tyson. Look at how the Muslims first limited religious intolerance and enjoyed the fruits of an open society and relatively free thought, and how ignorant, conservative religion reared its ugly head yet again to steal that away from them.
“Of all the stars that have names, two-thirds of them have Arabic names. While the constellations are Greek and Roman, the stars’ names are Arabic. How does this happen? How do you get stars named with Arabic names? It happens because there was this particularly fertile period – this 300 year period [about 800-1100 AD]-when the intellectual center of the world was Baghdad. It was completely open to all visitors – all travelers. They were all there exchanging ideas, and it was that period where we had advances in engineering, biology, medicine, and mathematics.Our numerals are called Arabic numerals! They created a whole field called algebra - an Arabic word. All of this is traceable to this 300 year period.
“Ibn al-Hazen (965-1040 AD) was the first person ever to set down the rules of science. He created an error-correcting mechanism, a systematic and relentless way to sift out misconceptions in our thinking.
[al-Hazen] "Finding truth is difficult and the road to it is rough. As seekers after truth, you will be wise to withhold judgment and not simply put your trust in the writings of the ancients. You must question and critically examine those writings from every side. You must submit only to argument and experiment and not to the sayings of any person. For every human being is vulnerable to all kinds of imperfection. As seekers after truth, we must also suspect16and question our own ideas as we perform our investigations, to avoid falling into prejudice or careless thinking. Take this course, and truth will be revealed to you.”
“And then, something happened. ’The 12th century brought the influence of the scholar al-Ghazali (1058-1111 AD), and out of his work you get the philosophy that mathematics is the work of the Devil. Nothing good can come of that philosophy. With that, combined with other sort-of philosophical codifications of what Islam was and would become, the entire intellectual foundation of that enterprise collapsed and it has not recovered since.’ ”
And that part of the world has never recovered ("As of 2018, twelve Nobel Prize laureates have been Muslims ... Seven of the twelve laureates have been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize" - the non-intellectual prize). Contrast that with these education-respecting people: "Nobel Prizes have been awarded to over 900 individuals, of whom at least 20% were Jews, although the Jewish population comprises less than 0.2% of the world's population" (both quotes from Wiki)
That's what religion does when given the chance. That's what it did to you, and what you would do to us if you could.
There has been visible progress in our lifetimes, but you won't see it if you have been indoctrinated into a religion that doesn't want you to see it. It's called a faith-based confirmation bias, and the kind you wear is one of the most damaging. It's robbed you of enjoying life. Like some of our Christian friends here, you can find nothing good in the world and look forward to its destruction so that you can go to a better place, like somebody waiting their entire lives at some kind of cosmic bus stop to be rescued from a horrible world. Why would anybody want to trade their cheery disposition and outlook for something so dark and nihilistic? I'm happy with my life. You seem unhappy. How many times have you alluded to evil, conspiracy, and perverting minds?
People also lived for thousands of years with polio and smallpox, but we've made progress there.
Progress is anything that makes life longer, healthier, more functional, more comfortable, less laborious, less dangerous, or more interesting.
Regarding the Internet, having access to so much information has been very helpful - useful, interesting, and educational. Even if you lived between the two greatest libraries of all time, I could have my answers before you even got out of your driveway, and more of them than you, especially in areas like modern culture and current events. I feel the loss when the Internet is out.
Forensic science has been a huge stride forward. Not only are more of the guilty being caught, but the innocent exonerated. Whats that worth? I loved how they caugh the
Perhaps not for you, but it's become better for me in just my lifetime. The world has never been better, with more people than ever enjoying freedom, education, adequate nutrition, financial stability, good health, and leisure.
I consider what you are selling here to be the fraud - not trustworthy. I don't use the word evil because of its religious connotations, but I'd call your message pernicious, that is, potentially damaging to anybody willing to believe it. It will darken one's outlook and make life less enjoyable.
That is exactly what the believer does - believes a book, or a preacher.
I go with evidence. There is ample evidence that the scientific method is valid and reliable, as its output. We know that the science underlying the Apollo moon landings is correct due to the fact that it was used to successfully deliver astronauts to the surface of the moon and back. I don't need any book to know that that means that the scientists understand propulsion, navigation, communications, etc..
Likewise with the science underlying the Internet, and vaccines.
The geologists are using the same scientific method. Your scriptures use mythopoisis, which is a demonstrably unreliable method for understanding reality..
Really? Have you never seen lava?
The earth's magnetic field is also evidence of a liquid mantle: "The [earth's] magnetic field is generated by electric currents due to the motion of convection currents of molten iron in the Earth's outer core" - Wiki
See there? Education isn't such a bad thing after all.
