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The real true fascism prevelant in the US.

Discussion in 'North American Politics' started by Twilight Hue, Dec 8, 2021.

  1. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    Long video documentary, but worthwhile to watch I think.

    It's really eerie. This was made/posted a decade ago and not a single thing was ever done about it by either the Republicans or the Democrats.

    I'm convinced corporate fascism is the root of this country's problems and issue's, and is an answer as to why both Republicans and Democrats, the nations entrenched duopoly, are acting the way they are and dead set on continuing this path and refusing to do a single thing about it.

    The oath office holders say on preserving the Constitution has no meaning to them whatsoever since corporations became people and quickly killed our representative republic.
     
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  2. Kooky

    Kooky Freedom from Sanity

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    I find it darkly ironic that this video features Paul and Buchanan, two of the loudest advocates for market fascism I can think of.
     
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  3. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
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    Ask yourself....
    What is the worst that corporations can do to you?
    What is the worst that government can do to you
    under color of authority?
    The number & severity of possibilities points far more
    to government, eg, theft, imprisonment, conscription,
    beating. The worst corporations I've ever dealt with
    have simply (generally possible) been replaced with
    better ones. But government....it might mean moving
    to another state or country.
     
  4. Kooky

    Kooky Freedom from Sanity

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    Also, I can't help but respond to this:
    No, actually. This is exactly our grandfathers' capitalism. This is what unions and socialists were fighting, before they were massacred in the streets at the behest of a government in the service of capital, before the US military up and carpet bombed them.

    This is why the frothing antileftists of the far right would be really served to read Marx for once, because one thing that Marxist works make abundantly clear is this:
    The government serving capital interests is not an aberration, it is capitalism working as intended.
    This "recent new development" right-wingers are shocked to discover, is a system they have been living in for their entire lives; the reason why this comes as a shock, is that previously, they have been among those who benefitted from it.
     
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  5. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    It has to do with the merging of power by corporations and the government for mutual benefit excluding real people for corporations declared as people. Not the market itself.
     
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  6. Quetzal

    Quetzal A little to the left and slightly out of focus.
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    Mhmm, I agree. Bookmarking the video for later.
     
  7. Nakosis

    Nakosis Time Efficient Lollygagger
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    The answer would seem to be to limit the power of government as these corporations are using our own government against us.

    So the more power you give to government to fight these "evil" corporations, the more power the corporations have through the government. Big multinational corporations can use the power of government to kill off the competition.

    Giving the government complete control over business would be a dream come true for these multinational corporations.
     
  8. fantome profane

    fantome profane Keep safe, and keep your neighbours safe.
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    Destroy the planet. Corporations can poison people and the environment. They can drastically change the climate. Corporations have more power to do these things than any government. It is the government that is supposed to stop corporations from doing this. That is why it is so dangerous when corporations control the government.
     
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  9. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
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    Not really under the heading of "fascism".
    Tell that to people who once lived in Chernobyl, Dresden, Nagasaki, Hiroshima, etc.

    So is this thread really about fascism,
    or just a rant against corporations?

    Government can....
    - Beat us.
    - Shoot us.
    - Arrest us.
    - Steal from us.
    - Imprison us.
    - Conscript us.
    - Evict us.

    Corporations are little girls in comparison to The Man.
     
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  10. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Not here. Full up, sorry.
     
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  11. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    But if the corporation controls aspects of government...?

    Full disclosure, I think money and lobby groups have too much impact on democratic processes in many countries, mine and yours most definitely included.
     
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  12. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
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    Corporations should control aspects to some extent,
    along with all other entities, eg, voters.
    It's a long standing claimed problem.
    Some solutions even worsen things.
    I expect that it'll never go away.
     
  13. tytlyf

    tytlyf The Mind's Eye

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    Corporate takeover of our government? Ya, one of the main reasons I don't vote Republican. Republicans have given the reigns of our government to the highest corporate bidder (Koch Industries, Big Oil, etc).
    "Citizens United" was passed by Republicans to allow these same massive corporations the ability to buy our elections without disclosing where the money was coming from.

    A Republican vote is a vote against the working class and for corporate corruption, corporate control and corporate freebies.

    Republicans:
    Corporate freebies = Good
    Worker freebies = Bad
     
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  14. RestlessSoul

    RestlessSoul Well-Known Member

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    Among the many harmful things corporations can do to you, is to gain such leverage over your government that it becomes “government of the privileged, for the privileged by the privileged.”
     
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  15. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    I believe in a God who will ask us whether we harmed others in life. When we are dead.
    And how we gained the money we have stockpiled in life.
    I do not think God approves of Banking Seigniorage. My God overthrew the tables of the moneylenders within His Temple, when He was on this Earth.
    I dare not imagine what he will do with those who stockpile billions of dollars with the mark of the Beast. The Banking system.
     
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  16. Laika

    Laika Well-Known Member
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    Well, It would be nice but it won't work out that well. :D

    If Libertarians and Marxists discuss the symptoms of the close relationship between government and business, there is a huge amount they can agree on. The power exerted by the military-industrial complex and constantly fighting wars overseas to increase profits, the expansion of prisons as a source of for-profit cheap labour, draconian police powers to keep down labour as social conditions deteriorate, the influence of corporations and lobbyists over government and policy, etc.

    But when you get to the causes and therefore the solutions of the integration of business and the state, the ideological analyses get you completely different results;

    Libertarians will claim that the problem is the state and the state has to be reduced in size and with less intervention in the economy. They want to go back to the competitive stage of the development of capitalism, perhaps by breaking up corporations in to smaller entities to increase competition. They will place the blame for the great depression on the federal reserve, monetary policy and government intervention, whilst claiming the New Deal didn't actually make things better but make it worse through more intervention. This is a betrayal of the "founding principles" of classical liberalism in the eyes of libertarians, as a government of the people, by the people and for the people is usurped by corporate interests. Freedom and Democracy is restored by going back to those founding principles and again putting the people in control.

    Meanwhile Marxists believe the problem is capitalism and that to is impossible to return to the competitive stage of development, as monopolies are a natural development of capitalism. Breaking up companies through anti-trust/competition laws doesn't reverse the trend towards bigger business, but is only a temporary set back. As monopolies get bigger, so economic crises get more severe and the state has to step in to regulate the market which can no longer regulate itself by competition. The great depression was capitalism's fault and the new deal was the capitalist state trying to plug holes on an already sinking ship.

    Additionally, Marxists believed that the state was capitalist and represented the exploiting classes from it's inception. The founding fathers may have been liberals, but they were slave owners and property owners who wrote a constitution with anti-democratic sympathies such as an originally un-elected senate, the electoral college, and a series of constitutional checks and balances that favour conservative approaches to legislation and impede radical social and economic policies. The (unelected) supreme court later developed powers of judicial review and FDR found New Deal legislation held up by a conservative justices in the 1930's. This is when he threatened to pack the court with justices sympathetic to his policies. In the Marxist view, the nature of these interventions will always serve the ruling class, with the new deal principally working for business whilst providing some "compromises" to check the workers' dissent so they don't threaten the system as a whole. The conflict between the supreme court and FDR (and the Democratic and Republican Parties) is a conflict within the capitalist ruling class itself over the extent of intervention, rather than of abolishing capitalism altogether. Marxists therefore want to change the nature of the state by having a "workers' state" and then have the "workers' state" take control of the corporations and run the economy on the basis of an economy plan.

    So whilst libertarians and Marxists oppose the same tendencies towards fascism in the modern state, they have opposing solutions to it. Libertarians say fascism is left-wing because it expands the state, Marxists say fascism is right-wing because the state is subordinate to capitalism. These differences aren't really that helpful in actually defeating fascism as a common objective and is just confusing to try to decide who is right in the end. :confused:
     
    #16 Laika, Dec 9, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2021
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  17. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    This is such a typically rightist response.

    The corporations now control the government. And they have been for decades. So there is no "either/or". Blaming the government and ignoring the corporations is EXACTLY what the corporate fascists want us to do, because that weakens the ability of government to fight the corrupting influence of the corporations. And it's exactly what the "American right" has been cheer-leading since the days of Reagan. Some politicians would stand up to them if they knew they had the support of their constituents. But ever since Reagan popularized the blaming and hating of government for governing, the politicians have had no real support from the people they are supposed to represent. And so the only way to maintain their positions of power was to spend lots of money on election campaigns, and even rig them if possible, to win. Which made them extremely beholding to the bribe money coming from their big corporate donors. And now they are owned fully and completely by them. To the point where they no longer represent the will of the people at all. Every legislative decision is being made based on corporate profitability and power. The people have no government, anymore. What they have is a system for enabling and enforcing corporate will. And the media has likewise been corrupted by it's own lust for profits, to the exclusions of it's responsibility to help keep the population informed. Now it just tells us whatever we will tune into the advertising to hear. And whatever their corporate advertisers want them to say.

    So to answer your question about which has the greatest ability to harm us, that question has already been answered by our own history, as the corporations have already completely subjugated both the government and the media. Clearly they have the greatest power to do us harm, and they are using it to do us harm. Because they don't care about our well-being. They only care about maintaining maximum economic profitability for themselves.
     
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  18. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
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    Saying that they can do this is different from
    making a case based on what they actually do.
    So.....what have corporations done that's "fascist"?
     
  19. RestlessSoul

    RestlessSoul Well-Known Member

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    Same in the UK. A working man or woman has a nice little little dodge where they get paid, say, a couple of hours overtime for a half hours work - they're not only scamming the system, they're a threat to the whole economy.
    Meanwhile, some direct descendent of William The Conqueror has all his investments registered in the Cayman Islands to avoid paying tax - nothing wrong with that, all perfectly legal.
     
  20. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
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    And I'm sure you'll give a typically socialist response.
    Whaddaya know....a socialist rant that's long on
    conspiracy theory, but utterly devoid of evidence.
     
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