The rapture...didn't it already happen?

[rusra02]

Your right, scripture knows nothing about a "rapture". There is no chapter or verse that tells us that we go "up" anywhere.



Your right again about ruling with Christ, the only thing is that when Christ returns to earth, he stays here and sets up the kingdom with us. We, as immortal saints after judgement, will rule with him on earth. Jerusalem will be the focal point or capital of his kingdom.

Zech 14 "And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

A world wide kingdom will be "set up" on earth that will destroy the kingdoms of man.

There are so many things that has to happen when Christ returns. Christ raises the dead and judges the world, Israel will be restored. Christ rules on the restored throne of David. nations will come up to worship the Lord in Jerusalem, world peace and safety, etc, etc,
It's going to be joyous time the world has ever seen.

Your right, scripture knows nothing about a "rapture". There is no chapter or verse that tells us that we go "up" anywhere.



Your right again about ruling with Christ, the only thing is that when Christ returns to earth, he stays here and sets up the kingdom with us. We, as immortal saints after judgement, will rule with him on earth. Jerusalem will be the focal point or capital of his kingdom.

Zech 14 "And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

A world wide kingdom will be "set up" on earth that will destroy the kingdoms of man.

There are so many things that has to happen when Christ returns. Christ raises the dead and judges the world, Israel will be restored. Christ rules on the restored throne of David. nations will come up to worship the Lord in Jerusalem, world peace and safety, etc, etc,
It's going to be joyous time the world has ever seen.

I agree it will be a wonderful time when Christ returns. Hebrews 12:22,23 speaks about "a Mount Zion and a city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem, and myriads of angels in general assembly, and the congregation of the firstborn who have been enrolled in the heavens, and God the Judge of all." This indicates to me that God's Kingdom is a heavenly government, with it's seat of government in the heavens. Jesus repeatedly referred to this government as "the Kingdom of the heavens." (Matthew 10:7)

 

[moorea944]

I agree it will be a wonderful time when Christ returns. Hebrews 12:22,23 speaks about "a Mount Zion and a city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem, and myriads of angels in general assembly, and the congregation of the firstborn who have been enrolled in the heavens, and God the Judge of all." This indicates to me that God's Kingdom is a heavenly government, with it's seat of government in the heavens. Jesus repeatedly referred to this government as "the Kingdom of the heavens." (Matthew 10:7)

I agree it will be a wonderful time when Christ returns. Hebrews 12:22,23 speaks about "a Mount Zion and a city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem, and myriads of angels in general assembly, and the congregation of the firstborn who have been enrolled in the heavens, and God the Judge of all."

I dont have "enrolled in the heavens" in my bible, just curious on what bible your reading

This indicates to me that God's Kingdom is a heavenly government,

Your right, this is a heavenly government. It's coming from God. It is not a kingdom of man. (Daniel 2) But it never says that it will be in heaven. All scripture, esp, the OT, tells us that it will be on earth. So are you saying that Christ is coming back and then he takes people back to heaven? Not quit sure what your saying here...

with it's seat of government in the heavens.

Dont know where you get that one from...

Jesus repeatedly referred to this government as "the Kingdom of the heavens." (Matthew 10:7)

Sorry, but that is never said. It is either the Kingdom of God or the Kingdom of Heaven. But never, the Kingdom of the Heavens. Maybe your reading one of the never translation bibles, dont know.

Look at 2 Sam 7 v 12-16, what is David told..
..
Psalms 72

Ezk 40 thru the end, tells us about certain temples that will be built when Christ is here.

The promises of Abraham, when we are baptised, we are now in those promises (Gal 3)
So many verses about the coming kingdom that will be on earth.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Revelation 1:1 says what's "shortly" to come to pass...that is consistent with the other 2 scriptures in stating, based on the text; he's already fulfilled the prophecies and the rapture has already happened.

Yes, ' shortly ' but when is that ' shortly' starting time to begin?
John did Not write Revelation until the very end of the first century, so the setting for Revelation was definitely Not the first century.- Acts of the Apostles 20:29-30
Please continue reading down to Revelation 1:10 because there we are told the time of the setting would be in the Lord's Day. - Revelation 1:19 ( hereafter )
The Lord's Day connects or equals to the Last days of badness on Earth - 2 Timothy 3:1-5, 2 Timothy 3:13
That is when the good news of God's kingdom government would be proclaimed on an international or global scale just as Jesus said at Matthew 24:14; Acts of the Apostles 1:8
Then, we will see the end come of all badness on Earth before Day One starts of Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership on Earth takes place.
That is why we are all invited to pray the invitation of Revelation 22:20 for Jesus to come ( Not pray Jesus came )

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Where does it say that? I just finished reading the entire 25th chapter of Matthew and I didn't come across it. However I posted scripture from the 24th chapter that clearly states it will happen during the time period he was living in.

Did you read Matthew 25:31 ?_______
Matthew chapter 24 has both a minor and a MAJOR fullfillment.
The first or earlier fulfillment came in the year 70 when the Roman armies destroyed unfaithful Jerusalem.
The Grander or Larger fullfillment is for our day or time frame - Matthew 24:13-14
The good news of God's kingdom government would first be proclaimed as a witness unto ALL nations.- Acts of the Apostles 1:8
That has Not happened until now. Modern technology has now made possible rapid Bible translation ALL over the Earth.
People can Now have Scripture in their own mother tongue or native language throughout the Earth as never before in history.
When was Matthew 24:21 fullfilled ?_________
So, in the first century there was a limited fulfillment in apostate Jerusalem, but Not Earth wide.
The great tribulation (Earth wide) of Revelation 7:14 is still ahead of us before Jesus starts his millennium-long day of governing over Earth.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I dont have "enrolled in the heavens" in my bible, just curious on what bible your reading
Your right, this is a heavenly government. It's coming from God. It is not a kingdom of man. (Daniel 2) But it never says that it will be in heaven. All scripture, esp, the OT, tells us that it will be on earth. So are you saying that Christ is coming back and then he takes people back to heaven? Not quit sure what your saying here...
Dont know where you get that one from...
Sorry, but that is never said. It is either the Kingdom of God or the Kingdom of Heaven. But never, the Kingdom of the Heavens. Maybe your reading one of the never translation bibles, dont know.
Look at 2 Sam 7 v 12-16, what is David told..
Psalms 72
Ezk 40 thru the end, tells us about certain temples that will be built when Christ is here.
The promises of Abraham, when we are baptised, we are now in those promises (Gal 3)
So many verses about the coming kingdom that will be on earth.

I think the reference idea to ' enrolled in the heavens ' comes from Hebrews 12:22 addressing ' heavenly Jerusalem '
In other words, as Galatians 4:26 mentions that Jerusalem ' above ' is now mother.
Yes, agree ' heavenly ' government as we see those who will govern over earth are located or enrolled in the heavens - Revelation 20:6; Revelation 2:10; Revelation 5:9-10
Jesus will also have earthly subjects of God's heavenly kingdom government on Earth - Psalms 72:8; Psalms 72:12-14
Those in heaven reign as ' kings ' and ' priests ' over Earth. As kings taking care of governmental responsibilities. As priests taking care of spiritual duties of earthly subjects.
Compare what is told about David at Ezekiel 34:24, and see Acts of the Apostles 2:34
There will be ' princes ' on Earth - Psalms 45:16; Isaiah 32:1; Ezekiel 34:24, but the heavenly kings and priests are located in heaven.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Matthew 24:40-41

Thank you for your reply.
Yes, the word ' taken ' is used at Matthew 24:40-41
Due to the preaching and teaching work being proclaimed worldwide today - Matthew 24:14 - people are taken away spiritually ( taken away in a spiritual sense )
This might not be the best example, but for the sake of illustration picture a room full of long-time co-workers.
One day one of the workers decides to become a follower of Jesus while the rest do not do so.
The one who becomes a Christian is ' taken ' away in a spiritual sense, but Not literally removed from Earth.
Do you ' remember the wife of Lot ' for she was the one taken away (destroyed) from those being saved.
Being taken along even corresponds to Noah and family entering the Ark for the sake of their salvation.
There is the coming ingathering of three (3) groups of people at Matthew 25:31-33; Matthew 25:40 ( the humble sheep, haughty goats, and Jesus' spiritual brothers verse 40 )
The ' goats ' are taken away or removed from earth because the wicked will be destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7; Proverbs 2:21-22- while the righteous remain - Matthew 25:37; 5:5
The upright will come through the great tribulation of Revelation 7:14 before the start of Day One of Jesus' 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth begins - Psalms 72:8; 12-14
Notice the advice Isaiah gives us at Isaiah 26:20.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I believe it has not and no-one would know better than me. However it would not surprise me if those who die in Christ now go to the New Jerusalem instead of Heaven.

Aren't those of Revelation 2:10; Revelation 20:6 located in heaven ?
They have a first or earlier resurrection - Revelation 20:6; Luke 22:28-30
Where is New Jerusalem located but ' above ' according to Galatians 4:26. Isn't ' above " meaning the heavenly above ?
ALL who died before Jesus died - John 3:13 - can have a happy-and-healthy physical resurrection back to life on Earth during Jesus' coming 1,000-year reign over Earth.
That includes people like David - Acts of the Apostles 2:34 - and John the Baptizer - Matthew 11:11

 

[moorea944]

I think the reference idea to ' enrolled in the heavens ' comes from Hebrews 12:22 addressing ' heavenly Jerusalem '
In other words, as Galatians 4:26 mentions that Jerusalem ' above ' is now mother.
Yes, agree ' heavenly ' government as we see those who will govern over earth are located or enrolled in the heavens - Revelation 20:6; Revelation 2:10; Revelation 5:9-10
Jesus will also have earthly subjects of God's heavenly kingdom government on Earth - Psalms 72:8; Psalms 72:12-14
Those in heaven reign as ' kings ' and ' priests ' over Earth. As kings taking care of governmental responsibilities. As priests taking care of spiritual duties of earthly subjects.
Compare what is told about David at Ezekiel 34:24, and see Acts of the Apostles 2:34
There will be ' princes ' on Earth - Psalms 45:16; Isaiah 32:1; Ezekiel 34:24, but the heavenly kings and priests are located in heaven.

Jesus will also have earthly subjects of God's heavenly kingdom government on Earth - Psalms 72:8; Psalms 72:12-14

Yes, that's so true.

Those in heaven reign as ' kings ' and ' priests ' over Earth. As kings taking care of governmental responsibilities. As priests taking care of spiritual duties of earthly subjects.

The bible knows nothing about heaven going. These kings and priests are the gloried saints that have been excepted into the kingdom. There is nothing about anyone going to heaven at anytime.

Scripture tells us that the kingdom will be on earth and Christ will rule from there for ever and ever.

Compare what is told about David at Ezekiel 34:24, and see Acts of the Apostles 2:34

Compare to what? Heaven going? Not sure what your point is here....

Ezk 34 "And I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the LORD have spoken it." This is telling us that David will be a prince in the kingdom age.

Act 2 "For David is not ascended into the heavens..."

2 v 29 "Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us unto this day."

These two verses in Acts are tells us that we dont go to heaven. And that is the point that Peter is trying to make here too. Peter is also giving David as an example.

....but the heavenly kings and priests are located in heaven.

Bible never tells us that at all

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Yes, that's so true.

The bible knows nothing about heaven going. These kings and priests are the gloried saints that have been excepted into the kingdom. There is nothing about anyone going to heaven at anytime.

Scripture tells us that the kingdom will be on earth and Christ will rule from there for ever and ever.
Compare to what? Heaven going? Not sure what your point is here....
Ezk 34 "And I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the LORD have spoken it." This is telling us that David will be a prince in the kingdom age.
Act 2 "For David is not ascended into the heavens..."
2 v 29 "Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us unto this day."
These two verses in Acts are tells us that we dont go to heaven. And that is the point that Peter is trying to make here too. Peter is also giving David as an example.
Bible never tells us that at all

Doesn't Revelation 20:4-6 put those who have a first or earlier resurrection as being located in heaven with Jesus ? _______ - Revelation 3:21
The majority of mankind ( John 3:13 ) including David and John the baptizer - Matthew 11:11 - will be resurrected back to happy-and-healthy physical life on Earth.

Yes, we do pray for God's kingdom government to ' come ' ( thy kingdom come and Not thy heaven come ) and we do Not pray to be taken away to the kingdom, or to be taken up to the kingdom, but for the kingdom to ' come ' and God's will ( purpose ) to be done here on Earth as it is in heaven.
We know there is No crime, violence, war in heaven, No pollution, No sickness, No death in heaven, so we are praying for those good heavenly conditions to come to Earth.
We are all invited to pray the invitation of Revelation 22:20 for Jesus to come. Since the world would behold Jesus No more -> John 14:2-3; John 14:19 A; John 14:23; 1 Timothy 6:16 - then we are praying for those good heavenly conditions to come and exist here on Earth while Jesus and the saints govern Earth from heaven. - Psalms 72:8; Psalms 72:12-14

 

[moorea944]

Doesn't Revelation 20:4-6 put those who have a first or earlier resurrection as being located in heaven with Jesus ? _______ - Revelation 3:21
The majority of mankind ( John 3:13 ) including David and John the baptizer - Matthew 11:11 - will be resurrected back to happy-and-healthy physical life on Earth.

Yes, we do pray for God's kingdom government to ' come ' ( thy kingdom come and Not thy heaven come ) and we do Not pray to be taken away to the kingdom, or to be taken up to the kingdom, but for the kingdom to ' come ' and God's will ( purpose ) to be done here on Earth as it is in heaven.
We know there is No crime, violence, war in heaven, No pollution, No sickness, No death in heaven, so we are praying for those good heavenly conditions to come to Earth.
We are all invited to pray the invitation of Revelation 22:20 for Jesus to come. Since the world would behold Jesus No more -> John 14:2-3; John 14:19 A; John 14:23; 1 Timothy 6:16 - then we are praying for those good heavenly conditions to come and exist here on Earth while Jesus and the saints govern Earth from heaven. - Psalms 72:8; Psalms 72:12-14

Psalms 72 is talking about earth, not heaven.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Psalms 72 is talking about earth, not heaven.

Yes, Psalms 72:8, 12-14 is talking about Earth. Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership is about his governing over Earth.
The blessings of the benefits of God's promise to father Abraham is about: Earth - Genesis 12:3; Genesis 22:18
Mankind will see the return of the Genesis ' tree of life ' on Earth for the healing of earth's nations - Revelation 22:2

 

[Muffled]

Your posts always have so much speculation, with out backing of scriptural evidence; just lots of your own beliefs....

Personally would just stick with what the text says, and not make sweeping claims, that might not fit.

I believe you want more evidence to back up what I believe so I will be happy to provide. Context is important. In Mat 24 three questions are asked. I believe all three were answered in order. The first question about when the temple would be destroyed is answered in vs 4-22. That generation was the one that in 70AD saw the destruction of the temple but did not see a return of Jesus. He answered the 2nd question about His coming in vs 23-34. The sign of His coming precedes His coming and I believe that has happened in 1974. That generation will not end until 2044. The last question about the end of the world is answered in two parts: 1, a lieteral end in v 35 and 36 2. the end that is talked about in OT prophecy v 37-51.

PS: The media dubbed the generation of children born in 1974 as the Terminal Generation or Generation X. Coincidence?

 

[Muffled]

Aren't those of Revelation 2:10; Revelation 20:6 located in heaven ?
They have a first or earlier resurrection - Revelation 20:6; Luke 22:28-30
Where is New Jerusalem located but ' above ' according to Galatians 4:26. Isn't ' above " meaning the heavenly above ?
ALL who died before Jesus died - John 3:13 - can have a happy-and-healthy physical resurrection back to life on Earth during Jesus' coming 1,000-year reign over Earth.
That includes people like David - Acts of the Apostles 2:34 - and John the Baptizer - Matthew 11:11

I believe there is no evidence that these people are in Heaven. For that matter there is no evidence that they are anywhere else either but I believe re-incarnation is the most common occurrence after death.

I believe the thousand year reign is either in the New Jerusalem in space or on earth. It might take 1000 years to make the earth habitable enough for the New Jerusalem to descend.

I believe first here simply means before the end of the 1000 year reign.

I believe if you are referring to space as the heavens instead of the Place Heaven you would be correct.

I believe that is a presumption. I would agree that some will be there.

I believe one would think so but there is no Biblical guarantee of it.