Tasha: I really expect you to post your own arguments, not long essays by someone else. Think what a disadvantage I'm at, how much more you know about the subject than I, and how long you have studied it. Surely you can make an argument yourself, not just spout propaganda.
Be patient, what i have posted was about number 3 ...
I believe there are 3 ways to do this:
1- We can go into great depth of what these verses mean, but then you will have no excuse to reject my explanation because it's supported by verses from the Quran, not just mere speculations in my part.
2- We can ignore the verses all together and focus into the reasons for why some Muslims interpret these verses and exploit them in order to justify murder and violence.
3- We can dive into the story of Islam and violence from the beginning, starting with Mohammed till today.
So, how do you want us to do this? because we want to focus on something, not to go back and forth.
Thank you.
Whatever you like.
It's the only point which i intended to use articles at. I quoted two Jews. One of them in the past, a religious one, and the other one is an atheist Jew of today, and what they thought about Mohammed and Islam. That was the purpose of the two articles.
Not that these resources mean anything to me, because i already know my Prophet, but it's just to present you with some facts about Mohammed by
non-Muslims. Many Non-Muslims i have debated with prefer non-Muslims opinions and resources because it's more inclined to be unbiased than if it was written by Muslims themselves.
I hope you would understand now my position.
So one factor we have is all these warlike, anti-infidel koranic verses. Another factor is that Muhammad, the founder of Islam, was a warrior and a general who united disparate tribes under Islam and went to war against, and conquered, surrounding tribes.
Not only is Muhammad the founder of the religion, he is held up as the example of the best possible man, whom all Muslims should emulate. He conducted raids on merchant caravans, ransomed prisoners. These raids and victories were instrumental in persuading Arab tribespeople to convert to Islam. They also strengthened the Muslims' belief that Allah favored them--that, because of their devotion to Allah, He granted them victory in battle. Muhammad himself led troops into battle. When they lost, they saw this as evidence of Allah's disfavor due to insufficient piety.* In victory, men of the losing army were beheaded, and women and children taken as slaves.
Again, the qur'an actually describes some of these battles, the results and lessons learned from them.
Muhammad gained the Muslim holy city, Mecca, by conquering it in battle. After conquering other Arab lands, when some tribes did not wish to convert to Islam, they were required to defer to its sovereignty and pay a tax.
To Muslims, this is not just history. This is the glorious tale of the beginning of establishing the reign of Allah on earth, and the model of what a Muslim should do--emulate Muhammad, dedicate their life to fighting and conquering on behalf of Allah.
My view is that radical Muslims take this to heart, and strive to emulate Muhammad with the weapons they have available to them, to fight and possibly die in battle on behalf of Allah.
So I think the early history of Islam and life of Muhammad is another significant factor in the violent actions of radical Muslims.
*(note what a primitive, superstitious world view this is. It is fundamental to Islam.)
Here is a view of Muhammad from an Islamic website:
Refuting lies about Islam
This is not entirely true. I'm tempted to refute your claims about the motivations of Prophet Mohammed and how he treated his enemies, the false statements about the details of wars and why these battles started. Nevertheless, i think if i started doing all of that we will need to put it in a new independent thread because we will lose our focus in your OP, unless you believe it's necessary for you to know the accurate information of Mohammed's history, then i would be more than happy to provide you with the details *using my own arguments*, not articles this time.
I think you are making it more difficult for me and for the other Muslims to focus on your OP, because you are doing the exact thing you have accused me of doing, spouting propaganda. That's why Muslims will feel that they need to correct the errors in your posts, which is really not that beneficial to the purpose of your OP, so instead of splashing quotations and verses, i hope you will focus more in reasoning, analyzing, and interacting with us.
I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt until now, but if you keep throwing at our face wrong information about Islam, your thread will either die in misery, or you will end up debating with yourself and with some bigots and your thread will turning into a propaganda which have no purpose but to bash Islam.
Therefore, for now, i feel that i need to address your main concern here, which i believe is, how these wars in the time of Prophet Mohammed whether they were justified or not play a vital role in inspiring some Muslims today to act similarly, which will also takes us to point number 2.
2- We can ignore the verses all together and focus into the reasons for why some Muslims interpret these verses and exploit them in order to justify murder and violence.
No one can deny that wars occurred in the past during the life of Prophet Mohammed and the Muslims after him but
they were acting as a state which need to defend itself sometimes, and in some other times, they needed to expand and concur other lands.
On the other hand, Islam is extremely strict about the state affairs, that's why it's strictly prohibited in Islam for the normal citizens to rebel or act independently when it comes to the things which only the Caliph/King/President have a say on. Not only that, but also, those who rebel and act that way will be fought by the ruler and in our religion we will call them khawarij.
Allah said in the Quran:
[59]
O ye who believe! obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: that is best, and most suitable for final determination. (Quran 4:59)
I would like to point out too that Islam can't be held responsible for the acts of those who goes contrary to the teachings of the Quran and the laws of their state.
So, we conclude from the above that:
1- The Quran does contain verses about wars.
2- Muslims as individuals or groups can't act alone without the instructions and laws of the ruler.
3- Those who don't do so will be dealt with as traitors and they will be charged in court with treason.
But until now, we still didn't answer the golden question,
why only Muslims behave in this way? why all of those Muslims are going against their countries, their own people, and their own religion.
I'll answer that in my next post because i need to sign out now. I hope you will try ponder on what i already have said in this post, and i hope you will try to be patient and respond wisely, not to post more verses and countless quotations and wrong information about Islam.
That's of course if you are interested in an honest and productive dialogue between us, and to have more understanding in this touchy subject. So, try to speak
with us, not
to us. But if your purpose was to just do the so called *exposing* of Islam as some might call it, i really wouldn't give a damn about your thread, because i only prefer to discuss and debate with those who want to interact with me, not with those who want to launch a propaganda against Islam and have some agendas about such a thing.
Peace.
EDIT: I'll try to finish some stuff i'm planning to do now then come back here later to continue. I'll try to come ASAP.