The Question Islam and Christianity Can't Answer

[Trailblazer]

What God are you referring to? What theology forms the basis of your accusation? There is nothing in the Christian New Testament to back up what you imply.

There is only one true God, as described below.

“Regard thou the one true God as One Who is apart from, and immeasurably exalted above, all created things. The whole universe reflecteth His glory, while He is Himself independent of, and transcendeth His creatures. This is the true meaning of Divine unity.” Gleanings, p. 167

No, that was not in the New Testament because people were not yet ready to hear it at that time.

John 16:12-14 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

 

[InChrist]

Yes, I have created a question that I have been pondering about for many years which no Christian or Muslim could possibly answer if God is loving. Here is my question to those Muslims and Christians that strongly believe in their faiths.

Question:

Why would an omniscient and loving God knowingly create many people he knows he will one day throw into hell after they get done living out their lives?

Argument:

So, he creates a bunch of people he already knows will go to hell before they even die. What's the point? It's like setting up someone for failure from the very beginning for your own sadistic pleasure and the thrill of it! Why believe in such a God?

Thank you.

I think the answer is that the human race comes as a package. Some of you will be the brothers or sisters or mothers, fathers, children, cousins, aunts, uncles of those who will receive Christ and who will spend a beautiful, wonderful eternity with God. Since the human race is one, God can’t create them without you. God doesn’t selectively choose to not create those who choose hell because He doesn’t create individual, separate people.
Yet, God in His love, goodness and mercy desires and has provided a way for everyone to spend a glorious eternity with Him. Those who reject His love, beauty, peace and joy send themselves to eternal separation from the Source of all that is good.

It Had to Be

Not only skeptics and atheists but also many who call themselves Christians often complain, “Why didn’t God make a perfect world without sin, suffering, or death? If He is all-powerful, su

www.thebereancall.org

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

The one true God who revealed all the true religions.

“Regard thou the one true God as One Who is apart from, and immeasurably exalted above, all created things. The whole universe reflecteth His glory, while He is Himself independent of, and transcendeth His creatures. This is the true meaning of Divine unity. He Who is the Eternal Truth is the one Power Who exerciseth undisputed sovereignty over the world of being, Whose image is reflected in the mirror of the entire creation. All existence is dependent upon Him, and from Him is derived the source of the sustenance of all things. This is what is meant by Divine unity; this is its fundamental principle.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 167

Ok, thank you.

 

[Trailblazer]

Right now, there is severe hail falling in the American Midwest. The animals are suffering. Is that because they refused to obey your god?

I'm glad I don't watch the news anymore.
No, it is because animals are only collateral damage, in God's eyes.... translated as God does not really give a rip about them or how much they suffer.
God knows that animals suffer but I see no evidence that indicates that God cares.

Matthew 10:29-31 New Living Translation (NLT) But not a single sparrow can fall to the ground without your Father knowing it. And the very hairs on your head are all numbered. So don't be afraid; you are more valuable to God than a whole flock of sparrows.

 

[Link]

I'm glad I don't watch the news anymore.
No, it is because animals are only collateral damage, in God's eyes.... translated as God does not really give a rip about them or how much they suffer.
God knows that animals suffer but I see no evidence that indicates that God cares.

Matthew 10:29-31 New Living Translation (NLT) But not a single sparrow can fall to the ground without your Father knowing it. And the very hairs on your head are all numbered. So don't be afraid; you are more valuable to God than a whole flock of sparrows.

Animals suffer but they also have meaningful lives. Take a course about animals and nature and you will see that it's not all too bad for them.

 

[Ponder This]

Yes, I have created a question that I have been pondering about for many years which no Christian or Muslim could possibly answer if God is loving. Here is my question to those Muslims and Christians that strongly believe in their faiths.

Question:

Why would an omniscient and loving God knowingly create many people he knows he will one day throw into hell after they get done living out their lives?

Argument:

So, he creates a bunch of people he already knows will go to hell before they even die. What's the point? It's like setting up someone for failure from the very beginning for your own sadistic pleasure and the thrill of it! Why believe in such a God?

Thank you.

In my experience...
There isn't anyone I love that I think is better not to have existed in the first place.
Moreover, there isn't anyone I love that I think is Good to remain both unrepentent and unpunished for genuine injustice.
And, thus, from my point of view, your question doesn't pose a substantive quandary with respect to God.

Moreover, I wouldn't believe you if you claimed there was someone you Love that you either:
wish never existed in the first place
or think it is Good to go unrepentent and unpunished for committing a True Injustice.
Rather, I would believe that you don't love that person.

In other words, only an unloving god, would not create the people he loves or allow the unrepetent people he loves to remain unpunished for committing True Injustice.

 

[Trailblazer]

Animals suffer but they also have meaningful lives. Take a course about animals and nature and you will see that it's not all too bad for them.

One could also say that about humans, they suffer but they have meaningful lives, and it's not all too bad for them.

 

[Tomef]

Suffering is usually caused by humans who refused to obey God.

‘Usually’ - what is your basis for thinking this, other than the Bible?

The atheist communists who murdered 70 million in China were not filled with Christian love.

What about the 10s of millions killed by Christian peoples migrating to the Americas? And the 100s of thousands of women and children tortured, raped, murdered and abused under the authority of the church over the centuries? It’s important to be consistent if you want to make a point.

 

[Trailblazer]

Ask yourself how one could distinguish between a deterministic world and one where the future is not yet determined.

Nobody could distinguish between those but that does not mean that the future is determined. It may or may not be.
I believe that the future is determined if it was predestined by God, but otherwise and event is not determined until it is chosen and acted on by a human.

I didn't say that man has no free will. What I said is that if his "choices" are as predictable as the pinball machine's "choice," then no choice is actually being made and although his will may feel free to him, if it can be predicted perfectly, it's as deterministic as the algorithm the pinball machine uses and which I discovered.

I do not believe that our choices are as predictable as a pinball machine since humans are not machines. Humans can learn new things every day and thus they are subject to making different choices than they otherwise might have made the day before. Nothing about humans is predictable. After my husband passed on in July 2022 I though I needed another husband but now I am thinking very differently. Another example is that I thought I would never attend any Baha'i activities ever again, but about a year ago I suddenly decided I wanted to start attending Feasts every 19 days and I have attended ever since.

Every day is a new day and nobody knows what their future holds, nobody except God.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Nobody could distinguish between those

That was a response to, "Ask yourself how one could distinguish between a deterministic world and one where the future is not yet determined." I disagree. If the future were determined exclusively by the past unfolding under the laws of nature, and somebody derived the algorithm that describes all future states perfectly, that person would be demonstrating that future events are predetermined.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Yes, I have created a question that I have been pondering about for many years which no Christian or Muslim could possibly answer if God is loving. Here is my question to those Muslims and Christians that strongly believe in their faiths.

Question:

Why would an omniscient and loving God knowingly create many people he knows he will one day throw into hell after they get done living out their lives?

Argument:

So, he creates a bunch of people he already knows will go to hell before they even die. What's the point? It's like setting up someone for failure from the very beginning for your own sadistic pleasure and the thrill of it! Why believe in such a God?

Thank you.

God gave us all life to use for good or evil but He encourages us to use it for love and not hate, for peace not war. He gives us the choice but it is us who make our own choices not God. Even if He has foreknowledge that we will take the road to hell it is us who make that choice not Him. We also had the choice to go to heaven but we chose not to. That’s our choosing.

Now what is the definition of hell and heaven? On this earth I would say to obey God’s laws of love and live in harmony would create a heaven on earth and to choose wars and genocide and hate would create a hell on earth.

So far it’s not looking real good but eventually when we’ve had enough of the hell of hate and wars we may choose God’s path of love and compassion. God’s leaving it up to us.

 

[Ignatius A]

I'm glad you asked.

There are certain things to which man is forced and compelled, such as sleep, death, sickness, decline of power, injuries and misfortunes; these are not subject to the will of man, and he is not responsible for them, for he is compelled to endure them. Man is compelled to endure them because he has no choice, and since they are not chosen that means they are fated (e.g., it was my fate that I got hit by a car while riding my bicycle, I did not choose that.)

Question.—Is man a free agent in all his actions, or is he compelled and constrained?

Answer.—This question is one of the most important and abstruse of divine problems. If God wills, another day, at the beginning of dinner, we will undertake the explanation of this subject in detail; now we will explain it briefly, in a few words, as follows. Some things are subject to the free will of man, such as justice, equity, tyranny and injustice, in other words, good and evil actions; it is evident and clear that these actions are, for the most part, left to the will of man. But there are certain things to which man is forced and compelled, such as sleep, death, sickness, decline of power, injuries and misfortunes; these are not subject to the will of man, and he is not responsible for them, for he is compelled to endure them. But in the choice of good and bad actions he is free, and he commits them according to his own will.

For example, if he wishes, he can pass his time in praising God, or he can be occupied with other thoughts. He can be an enkindled light through the fire of the love of God, and a philanthropist loving the world, or he can be a hater of mankind, and engrossed with material things. He can be just or cruel. These actions and these deeds are subject to the control of the will of man himself; consequently, he is responsible for them.

Some Answered Questions, p. 248

You can read the whole chapter on free will on this link; 70: FREE WILL

I accept there are things we don't control. So what? We will die but where we end up after we are dead is out choice not God's. It's a serious failure in logic to say because I don't control everything then I don't control anything.

 

[Ignatius A]

Well I am not choosing to go to hell, that sound bad. So hey I guess I am going to heaven right?

You may go to heaven but getting there isn't a simple as just saying thats where I want to end up. If you just say you want to go to Italy just making that pronouncement is meaningless. You have to make some choices long before you get there. Dont make the same fatal mistake as the sola fide (faith alone) protestants. They think all that's necessary to get to heaven is faith alone. Scripture is clear how one gets to heaven and it's not by faith alone. Just because someone is a Christian doesn't mean they are automatically going to heaven and being an atheist isnt necessarily a terminal path to hell. There's more to it than that but neither protestants nor atheist care to listen.
BTW heaven would be hell for anyone that doesn't genuinely want to be there.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Scripture is clear how one gets to heaven

Clear? Scripture says both that works are necessary and that they are not. It's one of the most well-known biblical contradictions. Every Christian gets to pick one and declare the other position wrong.

There's more to it than that but neither protestants nor atheist care to listen.

Why would an atheist be interested in your theology? These are things you believe by faith and cannot demonstrate to be correct. Such ideas have no value to the critical thinker. Heaven and hell are things for people who believe that they exist to worry about.

 

[Trailblazer]

I accept there are things we don't control. So what? We will die but where we end up after we are dead is out choice not God's. It's a serious failure in logic to say because I don't control everything then I don't control anything.

I never said that where we end up after we die is not our own choice. I only said we cannot control everything in this life.
I think that people have varying degrees of ability to choose but free will has many constraints, so whether all people can 'choose' to believe in God given these constraints, only God knows.

I believe that the punishment for turning away from God is not receiving the reward one could have had.

“He who shall accept and believe, shall receive his reward; and he who shall turn away, shall receive none other than his own punishment.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 339

 

[Trailblazer]

That was a response to, "Ask yourself how one could distinguish between a deterministic world and one where the future is not yet determined." I disagree. If the future were determined exclusively by the past unfolding under the laws of nature, and somebody derived the algorithm that describes all future states perfectly, that person would be demonstrating that future events are predetermined.

IF somebody derived the algorithm that describes all future states perfectly.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

You may go to heaven but getting there isn't a simple as just saying thats where I want to end up. If you just say you want to go to Italy just making that pronouncement is meaningless. You have to make some choices long before you get there. Dont make the same fatal mistake as the sola fide (faith alone) protestants. They think all that's necessary to get to heaven is faith alone. Scripture is clear how one gets to heaven and it's not by faith alone. Just because someone is a Christian doesn't mean they are automatically going to heaven and being an atheist isnt necessarily a terminal path to hell. There's more to it than that but neither protestants nor atheist care to listen.
BTW heaven would be hell for anyone that doesn't genuinely want to be there.

Well I was told I choose to go to hell, I was just saying I do not choose to go to hell. So what theology is correct and why?

 

[Ignatius A]

Clear? Scripture says both that works are necessary and that they are not. It's one of the most well-known biblical contradictions. Every Christian gets to pick one and declare the other position wrong.

Why would an atheist be interested in your theology? These are things you believe by faith and cannot demonstrate to be correct. Such ideas have no value to the critical thinker. Heaven and hell are things for people who believe that they exist to worry about.

Cite the passage that says works arent necessary.

Atheists are hardly critical thinkers. Cite the passage first then we'll talk. Bet it never appears here.

 

[Ignatius A]

I never said that where we end up after we die is not our own choice. I only said we cannot control everything in this life.
I think that people have varying degrees of ability to choose but free will has many constraints, so whether all people can 'choose' to believe in God given these constraints, only God knows.

I believe that the punishment for turning away from God is not receiving the reward one could have had.

“He who shall accept and believe, shall receive his reward; and he who shall turn away, shall receive none other than his own punishment.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 339

I have maintained we have free will not control over everything. They aren't the same thing.

 

[Ignatius A]

Well I was told I choose to go to hell, I was just saying I do not choose to go to hell. So what theology is correct and why?

Yes you do choose to go hell or heaven. What you choose by itself is not sufficient. What you choose also includes what actions you decide to take. Choosing heaven or hell isn't like selecting from a menu and it's brought to you.