The peacemakers shall becalled the sons of God.

[mystic64]

Could be one or the other or a combination of the two. Nature plus nurture. Or one can be transformed into a peacemaker.

Nazz you give "hope" for us not so much peacemaker types !

 

[Thief]

You would know a 'son'...for he keeps his Father's Word.

You cut a deal with the Father....the Son will honor it.
Cut a deal with the Son....the Father will honor it.

Of one mind and heart.....as if the same blood flows in the veins.

We know the Prayer.....Our Father who art in heaven.....

You declare yourself a child of God as you make that pronouncement.
Heaven hears it....so too the devil.

I believe the peace of heaven is guarded.
Not all enter in.
If you do so....it is because you belong there.

The peace will be kept.....the sons and even the servants.....carry swords.

(as I martial artist and knifemaker, I can hope)

 

[mystic64]

Peace is not merely the absence of conflict, but the presence of justice". Whether Martin Luther King, Augustine or Harrison Ford first said this really does not matter. It is true and it is also a basic concept of Torah. Biblically, peace, justice, mercy and righteousness (right doing) are wrapped up together as a whole.

Psa 37:37 Consider the blameless man, and behold the righteous(upright, the one doing right): for the end of that man is peace. A true peacemaker must be one who does what is right according to HaShem.

Psa 85:10 Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other.

To bring true peace to any situation mercy and truth must be coupled with right doing.

For a Jew in Yeshua’s time truth, mercy, righteousness and peace were all defined by Torah.

Psa 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and Thy law (Torah) is the truth.);

Psa 117:2 For His merciful kindness is great toward us: and the truth of the LORD endures forever. Praise ye the LORD.

Psa 119:165 Great peace have they which love thy law (Torah): and nothing shall cause them to stumble.

Pro 16:7 When a man's ways please the LORD, he makes even his enemies to be at peace with him.

Isa 32:17 And the work of righteousness (justice or righteous acts) shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness (justice or righteous acts) quietness (peace) and safety forever.

Isa 54:13 And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children.

Zec 8:16 These are the things that ye shall do; Speak ye every man the truth to his neighbor; execute the judgment of truth and peace in your gates:

The people listening to Yeshua would have understood a peacemaker to be an upright person who knew and followed Torah. He/she would be one who based his decisions and action on the judgments of HaShem contained in Torah. He/she would be one who married mercy with justice helped others understand the judgments of HaShem.

Mal 2:6 The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity.This was a promise to Levi but would also apply to any peacemaker.This also describes Yeshua. Although as he said, he did not come to bring peace, I believe he knew turning people back to Torah would cause problems for many who did not want to be submitted to HaShem’s instructions.

He also said those who followed his leading would have peace- his peace which obviously was not without conflict. Yeshua tells us in John 12:27 that the peace he gives is not the peace the world gives but that we should not be troubled or afraid. Yeshua was called the son of HaShem and those who patterned their life after him would also qualify as son or children of HaShem.

Phl 2:15 …that ye may be harmless and simple, irreproachable sons (or children) of God in the midst of a crooked and perverted generation; among whom ye appear as lights in the world,

So that is my take on the verses you put forth.

Humm ? The letter of the Law verses the Spirit of the Law. Eileen you present a reality where I shall never be a child of God under the letter of the Law , so now what do I do? Is there a chance under the Spirit of the Law?

 

[mystic64]

You would know a 'son'...for he keeps his Father's Word.

You cut a deal with the Father....the Son will honor it.
Cut a deal with the Son....the Father will honor it.

Of one mind and heart.....as if the same blood flows in the veins.

We know the Prayer.....Our Father who art in heaven.....

You declare yourself a child of God as you make that pronouncement.
Heaven hears it....so too the devil.

I believe the peace of heaven is guarded.
Not all enter in.
If you do so....it is because you belong there.

The peace will be kept.....the sons and even the servants.....carry swords.

(as I martial artist and knifemaker, I can hope)

I use to have a smithy and used it to forge swords . I loved hammering hot steel! Thief, you have again, something interesting. "You declare yourself a child of God as you make that pronouncement, Heaven heres it....so too the devil." I love that statement! A child of God, declared or otherwise, is automatically at war with the devil and his legion of minions. There is a scripture in the NT where a large bunch of folks that were martyrs were asking God to revenge them and God said to them that it was not time because there were still more folks that wanted to be martyrs. So from there one could deduce that the war can not be won until folks do not want to be martyred anymore. Maybe? I was born to be a martyr, but I have now kind of changed my mind about the whole thing . I would rather be a peacemaker (study diplomacy) and to heck with this martyr stuff. And to be honest with you I am way to old to do any sword fighting and martial arts stuff anymore (I use to be pretty good at it in my younger days). I now exist purely by the grace of God because I have zero power. Mouthy with zero power is a tricky state of being .

 

[Eileen]

Humm ? The letter of the Law verses the Spirit of the Law. Eileen you present a reality where I shall never be a child of God under the letter of the Law , so now what do I do? Is there a chance under the Spirit of the Law?

Please explain in what way have I presented a reality where you shall never be a child of HaShem? Can you explain what this concept of 'letter of Torah verses spirit of Torah' is? Where is it found in Scripture or the Apostolic writings? Where did this idea come from?

 

[mystic64]

Please explain in what way have I presented a reality where you shall never be a child of HaShem? Can you explain what this concept of 'letter of Torah verses spirit of Torah' is? Where is it found in Scripture or the Apostolic writings? Where did this idea come from?

I don't know Eileen , I kind of just threw it out there . The research that you have presented was needed and it is very insightful. The part about, "A true peacemaker must do what is right according to HaShem.", could be considered a major clue to answering the origional OP questions because Lord Jesus/Yeshua was talking to Jewish folks and you are quoting from the Torah. And, that which is written in the Torah is the Law. The letter of the Law makes the Law an absolute and the Spirit of the Law makes the Law a guideline with room for error because of, "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do." And if one admits to their sins and they ask for forgiveness, then their sins will be forgiven. I think that it has something to do with coming under the Law of Grace which was a gift to the followers of Yeshua as their Christ. The Torah, at least I do not think so, does not contain the concept of, "The Spirit of the Law." The Law of the torah is considered an absolute and one who is a "peacemaker" is one who is an example of following the Law and one who preaches the Law because only through the Law can one experience peace as a child of HaShem. From there only a Jewish person who follows the Law could ever be a "peacemaker". Because I am not Jewish and I do not follow the Law of the Torah, I and others like me can never be true "peacemakers" or ever be considered a child of HaShem.

So in all honesty , I guess that the OP and this topic was an attempt by me to hunt a loophole because without a loophole it is not possible for me to ever be a true peacemaker or ever be considered a child of God by Heaven/HaShem.

 

[Eileen]

I don't know Eileen , I kind of just threw it out there . The research that you have presented was needed and it is very insightful. The part about, "A true peacemaker must do what is right according to HaShem.", could be considered a major clue to answering the origional OP questions because Lord Jesus/Yeshua was talking to Jewish folks and you are quoting from the Torah. And, that which is written in the Torah is the Law. The letter of the Law makes the Law an absolute and the Spirit of the Law makes the Law a guideline with room for error because of, "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do." And if one admits to their sins and they ask for forgiveness, then their sins will be forgiven. I think that it has something to do with coming under the Law of Grace which was a gift to the followers of Yeshua as their Christ. The Torah, at least I do not think so, does not contain the concept of, "The Spirit of the Law." The Law of the torah is considered an absolute and one who is a "peacemaker" is one who is an example of following the Law and one who preaches the Law because only through the Law can one experience peace as a child of HaShem. From there only a Jewish person who follows the Law could ever be a "peacemaker". Because I am not Jewish and I do not follow the Law of the Torah, I and others like me can never be true "peacemakers" or ever be considered a child of HaShem.

So in all honesty , I guess that the OP and this topic was an attempt by me to hunt a loophole because without a loophole it is not possible for me to ever be a true peacemaker or ever be considered a child of God by Heaven/HaShem.

First I must say that your understanding of Torah is amiss. The Law always had and still has room for error. Yes, Torah is absolute in that it is the instructions HaShem gave for our lives- but HaShem built into Torah a way to return after we error. That is really what the "sin offering" was all about. It is not a sacrifice to placate HaShem, or pay for our sins and errors, it is part of the process of returning and repenting-teshuvah. And as no temple or priesthood is functioning now it is a part we can not follow completely but teshuvah is possible without sacrifice and offerings and always was.

Jer 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you. Hos 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowing of God more than burnt offerings.
1Sa 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

No, Torah is not a guideline it is a plumb line, it is the ideal to which we work to attain just as Yeshua did. HaShem knew we would not always choose His way or even be certain what the right way was at times. But He has given us instructions on how to return when we have stepped off His path. Mercy and grace are not new to the NT HaShem is not concerned with us being perfect all the time but that we admit and learn from our errors, sins, transgressions, etc.. He wants us grow in obedience, and train ourselves so that our normative desire is to stop rebelling against Him (which is really what intentional sin is). HaShem recognizes that we can also unintentionally miss the mark and really is only asking that we admit it when we become aware of it and repent. Yes, He has given a system of making restitution when our intentional or unintentional sins harm others but He does not require recompense for Himself when we sin against Him- He requires repentance and return.

So if the spirit of the law is about "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do." then Torah also contains the spirit of the law as it always gave us the means to be forgiven.

You seem to be a moral, caring and compassionate person or at least you seem to desire to be. If this is true you are keeping Torah in ways that you do not recognize. You do not need a loophole unless you are unwilling to admit that you have ever missed the mark. I do not get that from you writing.

You do not need to be Jewish or even follow all the teachings of Judaism to be called a child of HaShem. But not everyone who enters the Kingdom of HaShem bears that particular title although I do believe all who do enter His Kingdom will at some time. It is according to what you do not who you are that makes one HaShem's child.

It is really a matter of choice--Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

This post feels a little disjointed so I hope you can understand what I have tried to express.

 

[JayJayDee]

Matthew 5:9 "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the sons (children) of God"

Guys, I have been wrestling with this scripture for several years now and I would consider input from you all helpful, no matter what that input might be.

What does this scripture mean to you, if anything? And if it does mean something, then "What is the why and how of it?" I am having trouble understanding how anyone could possibly be a peacemaker in today'world. Everything in today's world is just way too fragmented. And if these peacemakers are going to be called the "sons (children) of God," then "What !?" How could that be possible? Debate is welcome and some "topic drift" is also welcome. Anybody?

It seems strange that today a peacemaker or peacekeeper is often pictured as someone with a weapon. They are an enforcer of peace by threatening violence to others for not keeping it.

Peace however, is not merely the absence of war.....it comes from the inner person as a condition of the heart. Putting on a Christ-like personality, we imitate the master by preaching a message of peace. Love for one's enemies is the only way to achieve this.

A true peacemaker to me is someone who literally "makes" or actively "sues" for peace with those around him. The only way to do that is to refuse to participate in violence of any sort....to put down our weapons and make peace with our fellow humans. We could all do this is we just made the decision never to hate anyone for any reason, ever again.

The collective sum of mankind could implement this if they just wanted to.

We are just conditioned to respond to evil with more evil....and we wonder why we can never achieve the peace we want.

 

[Thief]

It seems strange that today a peacemaker or peacekeeper is often pictured as someone with a weapon. They are an enforcer of peace by threatening violence to others for not keeping it.

Peace however, is not merely the absence of war.....it comes from the inner person as a condition of the heart. Putting on a Christ-like personality, we imitate the master by preaching a message of peace. Love for one's enemies is the only way to achieve this.

A true peacemaker to me is someone who literally "makes" or actively "sues" for peace with those around him. The only way to do that is to refuse to participate in violence of any sort....to put down our weapons and make peace with our fellow humans. We could all do this is we just made the decision never to hate anyone for any reason, ever again.

The collective sum of mankind could implement this if they just wanted to.

We are just conditioned to respond to evil with more evil....and we wonder why we can never achieve the peace we want.

I see the afterlife as a sharing of what you are.
Your thoughts, your feelings, your dreams.....

What if the next guy is NOT peaceful of mind....and wants to 'bother' you?

draw your sword?

 

[JayJayDee]

I see the afterlife as a sharing of what you are.
Your thoughts, your feelings, your dreams.....

I do not believe in an afterlife the way you obviously do.
I see God's purpose in putting material creatures here on earth as his sole intention for them. There was no mention of heaven or hell....just life or death. Humans are drawn to belief in an afterlife for a couple of reasons as I see it.

1) Solomon wrote in Ecclesiastes 3:11...."He has made everything appropriate in its time. He has also set eternity in their heart, yet so that man will not find out the work which God has done from the beginning even to the end."

God has programmed "eternity" into the hearts of human beings. Once we come into existence, we cannot even contemplate an end to life...our own or anyone else's. Death is as foreign to us now as it ever was.
We were meant to live forever on this earth in paradise conditions...that is what God gave Adam and his wife. When they disobeyed God's command, they lost it all. Death would now terminate their existence.

Adam was not told about an afterlife of any sort....he was simply told that he would die and 'return to the dust'. (Gen 2:7)

So humans have an expectation to go on living....if not here on earth, then they figure it must be in an invisible realm because we can no longer see or communicate with those we have lost from this life.

2) The first lie told in Eden, was "you surely will not die". The devil lied to Eve and convinced her that death would not result from her disobedience.
So the devil also carries on the deception by allowing his cronies to impersonate the dead so that people will believe that death is not really death, but the transformation to a continuing life elsewhere.

Since God's law forbade the Israelites from any connection to spirit mediums, it is obvious that the demons are involved with it. (Deut 18:9-12)

What if the next guy is NOT peaceful of mind....and wants to 'bother' you?

draw your sword?

Nope.
Would pulling a weapon and blowing the guy away really be following Christ's instructions to 'love our enemy'?
Jesus said that 'those who live by the sword (insert weapon of choice) will die by the sword.' Two wrongs will never make a right.

If Christians are told to 'conquer evil with good' then producing a weapon is the last thing we would do. Trying to be a peacemaker may save our lives and even turn away the rage of a criminal. Even if we lose our lives to an act of violence, we have the hope of the resurrection, which is not an afterlife such as Christendom has formulated. A resurrection is a return to life on earth, where the paradise we lost will be given back to the ones who stayed faithful to God. This is the hope the Bible holds out. The dead are just peacefully sleeping.

 

[catch22]

Matthew 5:9 "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the sons (children) of God"

Guys, I have been wrestling with this scripture for several years now and I would consider input from you all helpful, no matter what that input might be.

What does this scripture mean to you, if anything? And if it does mean something, then "What is the why and how of it?" I am having trouble understanding how anyone could possibly be a peacemaker in today'world. Everything in today's world is just way too fragmented. And if these peacemakers are going to be called the "sons (children) of God," then "What !?" How could that be possible? Debate is welcome and some "topic drift" is also welcome. Anybody?

Don't isolate this verse unto itself. Read the pattern of the Beatitudes to understand a little better.

For example, starting at verse 3,
Does this mean only the poor in spirit get the kingdom of heaven?
Do only the mourners get comforted? (what do they mourn?)
Do only the meek inherit the earth?
Do only those who hunger get filled?
Only the pure in heart see God?
Are only peacemakers called the children of God?
Wait, the poor in spirit AND the persecuted for righteousness sake get the kingdom of heaven?

I think it's important to also consider Luke 6 as well, because it goes further and pronounces even woes.

Do ALL rich people miss out?
Do all full people end up with hunger?
Do all who laugh, weep and mourn? (and then if they mourn, don't they get comforted!?)
Should we all be woed if people speak well of us?

If you go further, they say to give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away (Matt 5:42)

Luke 6:30 reads, "Give to everyone who asks of you. And from him who takes away your goods do not ask them back."

These sermons are meant to be examples of extremes. They are, frankly, unattainable and unreasonably so for any man. I seriously doubt anyone could possibly offer to give to all who ask of them. But give what? Money? Food? Anything they...ask? Who can do it? If you can, let me know, because I want to talk to you!!!

Jesus is teaching here, not necessarily commanding (see 18-20 in Matthew here). This is not about works. This is about the heart of the Christ follower. Further down in Matthew, Christ goes into adultery is in the heart, murder is in the heart, etc.

If there could be a mark to aim for, it would be things such as this. If you spent your life hungering for the Word, seeking pureness of heart, attempting to give all you reasonably could, making peace with as many as was possible, and didn't back down from persecution but suffered in the faith... you might say you had the gist.

This is about the fruit of the Spirit, in my opinion. These are qualities of Christ, the things only He can actually do. The things we aspire to do, regardless of if we're able to or not, because we love as He told us to, and we have the heart intended for us. If these things aren't in our heart and there is no attempt by us, then what good are we as Christians? Are we Christians?

I think Christ makes it clear.... woe to those who seek riches first, who are full of the world, but not of the Word, who care what the world thinks of them and not what God thinks of them, who laugh and mock the followers of Christ rather than submitting and following themselves...

Just my thoughts. Hope it helps.

 

[Thief]

I do not believe in an afterlife the way you obviously do.

My take on Genesis is quite different than yours.
I've been posting that song and dance for several years here at the forum....
but I grew up with it.

The first time I read Genesis, I was only a boy.
But the story line played to my spirit quite differently than it does in congregation.

it will come around again as you hang about these postings....
stay tuned.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Just a different idea. Why would anyone want to be "meek" if the meek inherit the earth. Everyone else wants to inherit heaven. It would be really sad if everyone heads off to heaven and leaves the meek behind because they inherited the earth.

 

[Thief]

Just a different idea. Why would anyone want to be "meek" if the meek inherit the earth. Everyone else wants to inherit heaven. It would be really sad if everyone heads off to heaven and leaves the meek behind because they inherited the earth.

Actually saw a cartoon of this play on words....

 

[JayJayDee]

Just a different idea. Why would anyone want to be "meek" if the meek inherit the earth. Everyone else wants to inherit heaven. It would be really sad if everyone heads off to heaven and leaves the meek behind because they inherited the earth.

In the Beatitudes, Jesus is describing those who will inherit two different destinies. He is speaking of the ones who will go to heaven and those who will enjoy life on earth. Some of his descriptions apply to both.

"The meek" who "inherit the earth" are those who will enjoy a restored paradise on earth. These are described in John's Revelation....

Revelation 21:2-4...."And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them, and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.”

God's tabernacle (his theocratic rulership) is spread over "men" (his people on earth) and the ones he has provided to rule them, pictured by "new Jerusalem", seen coming down from heaven, are the ones described by Jesus as "pure in heart"....these ones will "see God". (Matt 5:8)

No human on earth can see God because it would cause their physical death. So one group make up the rulers in the kingdom and the others will be their subjects on earth. Those taken to heaven are both "kings and priests". (Rev 20:6) This means that they need subjects to rule and sinners for whom to act as priests. Those who go to heaven do not need either.

Because they are "one flock" under the leadership of "one shepherd" whilst on earth, all the rest of Jesus' words apply to both. Since both destinations are "paradise" to those who will end up there...and seeing as how the ones going to heaven to become "kings and priests" are specifically "chosen" by God for that role, no one is losing out because they are going somewhere they don't want to go. The desire to live in paradise is programmed into all of us. Earth was meant to be our home forever. In order to be taken to heaven, "the chosen ones" have to be anointed with God's holy spirit to alter their natural inclination to live here. The apostle Paul refers to this as "the heavenly calling". (Heb 3:1) We shouldn't confuse the two. We can't all have the "heavenly calling".

For me, living here on earth forever in paradise conditions with the devil and his hordes out of the picture, and all evil humans removed...life can go back to the way God planned it at the beginning.

Our savior, Jesus was sent to buy back what Adam lost for his children. I, for one rejoice at the prospect!!!

 

[JayJayDee]

My take on Genesis is quite different than yours.
I've been posting that song and dance for several years here at the forum....
but I grew up with it.

The first time I read Genesis, I was only a boy.
But the story line played to my spirit quite differently than it does in congregation.

it will come around again as you hang about these postings....
stay tuned.

Waiting for you to elaborate further......I have stayed tuned....but no one is playing the music yet.

 

[Kolibri]

The Psalms ties peace together with doing good and not doing bad, and a reverential fear of Jehovah.

Turn away from what is bad and do what is good;
Seek peace and pursue it.
- Ps 34:14

The son-ship is available to all mankind if they do this. For some it is immediate as they are born again with a heavenly hope. For others it will be when we return to being perfect humans like Adam, Eve, and Jesus all were. Both Adam and Jesus were called sons of God. (Luke 3:38)

 

[Thief]

The Psalms ties peace together with doing good and not doing bad, and a reverential fear of Jehovah.

Turn away from what is bad and do what is good;
Seek peace and pursue it.
- Ps 34:14

The son-ship is available to all mankind if they do this. For some it is immediate as they are born again with a heavenly hope. For others it will be when we return to being perfect humans like Adam, Eve, and Jesus all were. Both Adam and Jesus were called sons of God. (Luke 3:38)

Do not call Me good.....no one is good but the Father.

famous quote

 

[Kolibri]

Do not call Me good.....no one is good but the Father.

famous quote

doing good and being titled Good are two different things. And Jesus was drawing a contrast between him and his Father, that the good teachings originated from his Father.

"And one of the rulers questioned him, saying: 'Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit everlasting life?' Jesus said to him: 'Why do you call me good? Nobody is good except one, God.'" - Luke 18:18,19

"For I have not spoken of my own initiative, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment about what to say and what to speak. And I know that his commandment means everlasting life. So whatever I speak, I speak just as the Father has told me." - John 12:49,50

 

[Smart_Guy]

I'm really confused. I thought Christians believe that all humans are the sons of God!