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The peacemakers shall becalled the sons of God.

mystic64

nolonger active
Matthew 5:9 "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the sons (children) of God"

Guys, I have been wrestling with this scripture for several years now and I would consider input from you all helpful, no matter what that input might be.

What does this scripture mean to you, if anything? And if it does mean something, then "What is the why and how of it?" I am having trouble understanding how anyone could possibly be a peacemaker in today'world. Everything in today's world is just way too fragmented. And if these peacemakers are going to be called the "sons (children) of God," then "What :) !?" How could that be possible? Debate is welcome and some "topic drift" is also welcome. Anybody?
 

Sees

Dragonslayer
People who are working towards making their own life and those in their circle of influence happy, healthy, safe, loving, etc. are peacemakers. Actions and behavior being the kind that bring about those conditions of peace...well-being.

"sons of God" ain't my realm... I'd say it's related to "not all who call on my name will be saved, but those who do my Father's will"... aka peacemaking and enriching/nourishing of life/well-being.
 

lovemuffin

τὸν ἄρτον τοῦ ἔρωτος
I don't think "shall be called the sons of God" should be taken in too literal of a fashion, or as a technical term. it's a variation on the theme of the beatitudes in general: "Theirs is the kingdom of heaven". To be in the kingdom, to be a child of God, is to be like God, and so the beatitudes describe both the perfection and goal of humanity as well as the nature of the Divine. It goes along also in general with Jesus' inversion of the idea of power over others, wealth, and might as virtues.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
Matthew 5:9 "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the sons (children) of God"

I just take a simple interpretation of the verse. People that work for peace in both small ways and big ways are following the Godly path.

I'm not one to let fancy language daunt me.
 

mystic64

nolonger active
People who are working towards making their own life and those in their circle of influence happy, healthy, safe, loving, etc. are peacemakers. Actions and behavior being the kind that bring about those conditions of peace...well-being.

"sons of God" ain't my realm... I'd say it's related to "not all who call on my name will be saved, but those who do my Father's will"... aka peacemaking and enriching/nourishing of life/well-being.

Sees, you are so consistantly wise :) . I like reading what you post.
 

mystic64

nolonger active
I don't think "shall be called the sons of God" should be taken in too literal of a fashion, or as a technical term. it's a variation on the theme of the beatitudes in general: "Theirs is the kingdom of heaven". To be in the kingdom, to be a child of God, is to be like God, and so the beatitudes describe both the perfection and goal of humanity as well as the nature of the Divine. It goes along also in general with Jesus' inversion of the idea of power over others, wealth, and might as virtues.

Hi Well Named and welcome to the message board. "Should not be taken in too literal a fashion." "Eek! How can this be :) !?" Not to take too seriously, in too literal of a fashion, would mean that a "peacemaker" would never take things too seriously :) . Maybe? Well Named, I use to take everything very seriously, now I don't so much anymore. Twenty years on message boards has changed that. But at the sametime , Matthew 5:9 seems to be totally out of the clear blue as a statement :) . Most of what is considered religion has nothing to do with "peace" and Lord Jesus, my Master, Himself, said that He did not come to bring "peace". And there are lots of easier other ways to become an adopted child of God. Maybe it is as Sees said that it has to do with the small picture and really has nothing to do with the big picture. Maybe :) ? And you probably mean something totally different than the direction that I seem to be taking things.
 

lovemuffin

τὸν ἄρτον τοῦ ἔρωτος
I'm not sure I'm following you, but I can see where "too literal" might be the wrong choice of words on my part.

What I should probably do is ask you to clarify why you are amazed at the possibility of people being called children of God? The fact that it seems impossible to you suggested to me that you were understanding the term in some technical way or in relation to some specific systematic interpretation, which might not be most direct way of understanding the beatitudes.

With regard to the possibility of being a peacemaker, I understand why you might view that as a difficult task, but I don't think Jesus has in mind that each individual must (for example) solve the Israel-Palestine conflict. There are innumerable little tensions in life where there are opportunities to find peace, and I think it's the attempt and the disposition towards peacefulness which is important, not necessarily success in every case.
 

mystic64

nolonger active
Matthew 5:9 "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the sons (children) of God"

I just take a simple interpretation of the verse. People that work for peace in both small ways and big ways are following the Godly path.

I'm not one to let fancy language daunt me.

:) ! Well George-ananda, maybe I am over thinking things. I don't really care to be call a son of God, it is just that in today's world the concept of a "peacemaker" seems to be an oxymoron to me. Even relative to the small picture. Peace is best achieved if you tell everybody to go away and leave you alone :) . But from a practical stand point that never happens. What Lord Jesus should have said was, "Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall find peace." But oh no :) He had to say that they will be called the sons of God. Relative to humankind He has presented an impossible reality, one that He didn't even come to solve. How can this be?
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
:) ! Well George-ananda, maybe I am over thinking things. I don't really care to be call a son of God, it is just that in today's world the concept of a "peacemaker" seems to be an oxymoron to me. Even relative to the small picture. Peace is best achieved if you tell everybody to go away and leave you alone :) . But from a practical stand point that never happens. What Lord Jesus should have said was, "Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall find peace." But oh no :) He had to say that they will be called the sons of God. Relative to humankind He has presented an impossible reality, one that He didn't even come to solve. How can this be?
Can't we act to aid peace in our family, work environment, school, community, nation and world? I'm not clear on your problem is with the term 'son of God'; I don't read anything fancy into the term. We are all sons of God in my thinking. Godly people promote peace.
 

Sees

Dragonslayer
An interesting difference between my traditions and gospel, Christian views - the way we come to peace is by removing alienation, we fully become home in the world and fully become family. Instead of "not of this world", the world is our Mother and we are related to not just the Gods and each other but the animals, trees, etc.

We had "peacekeepers" in Germanic culture, and yes it is where the law enforcement name comes from. We kept the peace and nourished the peace because we are naturally good and loving, we are not fallen.

Til árs ok friðr is a traditional blessing that you have a year of prosperity and peace...where we get "peace and plenty" from. It wasn't just peace but those conditions of peace - love, harmony, wholeness. Only by connecting and honoring the connections with each other and our world could we have the friðr. It becomes home and we all become family and friends, friend is related to the world itself in origin - one you love and are at peace with.
 

lovemuffin

τὸν ἄρτον τοῦ ἔρωτος
The understanding of "world" in the New Testament is a bit complicated. The "world" that we are "not of", or which hates us, is a sense of the word that's distinct from the sense in which God declared creation good (Genesis), loves the world (John), came to save it (John), and reconcile it to himself (2 Cor). Christians also believe that they are called to be the light of the world, and the salt of the earth.
 

mystic64

nolonger active
I'm not sure I'm following you, but I can see where "too literal" might be the wrong choice of words on my part.

What I should probably do is ask you to clarify why you are amazed at the possibility of people being called children of God? The fact that it seems impossible to you suggested to me that you were understanding the term in some technical way or in relation to some specific systematic interpretation, which might not be most direct way of understanding the beatitudes.

With regard to the possibility of being a peacemaker, I understand why you might view that as a difficult task, but I don't think Jesus has in mind that each individual must (for example) solve the Israel-Palestine conflict. There are innumerable little tensions in life where there are opportunities to find peace, and I think it's the attempt and the disposition towards peacefulness which is important, not necessarily success in every case.

I didn't mean to give the impression that I was amazed about people being called the children of God. In my opinion anyone that has a kind and gentle heart is a child of God no matter what religion or non religion that they might follow. And I do understand what you are saying relative to it being related to the beatitudes and I might be taking things out of context because I do consider everything that Lord Jesus is quoted to have said in the New Testament to be a cohesive whole and interrelated to each other, as a cohesive whole. And if what you are saying that those that attempt/are inclined to be peacemakers shall be called the childern of God, then things sure would be a lot simpler to understand :) . And I also mean peacemakers as a separate class of their own, not everybody. Maybe a special class of folks. Also I am willing accept the possibility that this special class of folks may or may not all be of the Christian religion. And my guess would be that none of these folks would be considered traditional be any religion. If anything they would be considered "rogue". Which then brings up the question, "Who is it that is going to call them the children of God?" Because it is not going to be Humans :) . And also probably it won't be by the Governments of humankind. And also if one takes Holy Scripture as a cohesive whole there is nothing in it that would give Matthew 5:9 any validity as a predicted possibility. At least until Lord Jesus returns and once He returns, then they would not be necessary. Matthew 5:9, the scripture that never was :) . Lord Jesus just threw it out there to be funny? Maybe.
 

lovemuffin

τὸν ἄρτον τοῦ ἔρωτος
I don't read the beatitudes with such an explicit eschatological focus. I would say that the peacemakers are blessed not because they shall be declared the "sons of God" in some future time, but because to make peace is to be like God, who makes it rain upon the just and upon the unjust. It seems to me to fit better with the style of the Beatitudes and the sermon on the mount better. I can see where it's possible to read them in an eschatological light, but it doesn't seem as useful to me.
 

mystic64

nolonger active
An interesting difference between my traditions and gospel, Christian views - the way we come to peace is by removing alienation, we fully become home in the world and fully become family. Instead of "not of this world", the world is our Mother and we are related to not just the Gods and each other but the animals, trees, etc.

We had "peacekeepers" in Germanic culture, and yes it is where the law enforcement name comes from. We kept the peace and nourished the peace because we are naturally good and loving, we are not fallen.

Til árs ok friðr is a traditional blessing that you have a year of prosperity and peace...where we get "peace and plenty" from. It wasn't just peace but those conditions of peace - love, harmony, wholeness. Only by connecting and honoring the connections with each other and our world could we have the friðr. It becomes home and we all become family and friends, friend is related to the world itself in origin - one you love and are at peace with.

Sees, what you have posted is an interesting clue. "Only by connecting and honoring the connections with each other and our world could we have the friðr." What you have is the goal and the only way that it could be done. A peacemaker would have to be able to explain that to everybody, or at least to the majority, in a way that they could understand it. "That is what intrigues me :) !" What kind of verbal algorithms would one need to be able to do that? All of the verbal algorithms in play in today's world have to do with versions of, "us against them".
 

mystic64

nolonger active
I don't read the beatitudes with such an explicit eschatological focus. I would say that the peacemakers are blessed not because they shall be declared the "sons of God" in some future time, but because to make peace is to be like God, who makes it rain upon the just and upon the unjust. It seems to me to fit better with the style of the Beatitudes and the sermon on the mount better. I can see where it's possible to read them in an eschatological light, but it doesn't seem as useful to me.

"I can see where it's possible to read them in an eschatological light, but it doesn't seem as useful to me." Well Well Named :) , you and I do agree on that!
 

Sees

Dragonslayer
Best way to explain is to be an example and live it. In Christianity it is "not all who call on my name, but those who do my Father's will" and in mine it is "we are our deeds." Peacemaking or Peacekeeping is action-intensive...breathing it, doing it. Instead of focus on correctness of dogmatic beliefs and professing faith, it is putting truth, love, peace into action. How we live today and tomorrow will have a much greater causal effect than any preaching and mouth teaching.

How can our actions honor each other, our God/s, the world around us and reconnect with the Divine or reveal that we are already engulfed in the Divine - it's our real religion.

The best Christian I know is my mother...she lives such a kind, generous, radiant life that people she is in contact with want some of what she has...she never preaches or tries to talk the walk.

Only things put into action bring real transformation.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
Matthew 5:9 "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the sons (children) of God"

Guys, I have been wrestling with this scripture for several years now and I would consider input from you all helpful, no matter what that input might be.

What does this scripture mean to you, if anything? And if it does mean something, then "What is the why and how of it?" I am having trouble understanding how anyone could possibly be a peacemaker in today'world. Everything in today's world is just way too fragmented. And if these peacemakers are going to be called the "sons (children) of God," then "What :) !?" How could that be possible? Debate is welcome and some "topic drift" is also welcome. Anybody?
Well if you don't mind the imput from a Buddhist, your answer is further along in that same chapter: Matt 5:43-48

43 “You have heard that it was said, Love your neighbor and hate your enemy. 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. For He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward will you have? Don’t even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing out of the ordinary? Don’t even the Gentiles do the same? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
God is one, religions all have elements from God and from man; thus only by examining all, can we truly be peacemakers globally, plus get a clearer perspective. :innocent:
Rev 10:11 said:
And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.
 

mystic64

nolonger active
Best way to explain is to be an example and live it. In Christianity it is "not all who call on my name, but those who do my Father's will" and in mine it is "we are our deeds." Peacemaking or Peacekeeping is action-intensive...breathing it, doing it. Instead of focus on correctness of dogmatic beliefs and professing faith, it is putting truth, love, peace into action. How we live today and tomorrow will have a much greater causal effect than any preaching and mouth teaching.

How can our actions honor each other, our God/s, the world around us and reconnect with the Divine or reveal that we are already engulfed in the Divine - it's our real religion.

The best Christian I know is my mother...she lives such a kind, generous, radiant life that people she is in contact with want some of what she has...she never preaches or tries to talk the walk.

Only things put into action bring real transformation.

Again Sees :) you are so right on! And your Mother would definitely be an example of a child of God. Sees, I have never been around a person like your Mother and I do not think that I have even ever met someone like that. If I had been able to be around someone like that I would have/would be a totally different person. I have always been around folks that are a handful and have never really known anything else. It took me years to work the anger and hostility out of my personality programming and from there study how to develop diplomatic skills. It does turn out though that being diplomatic is a lot easier when you are no long angry and hostile :) . Anyway Sees, I do understand where you are coming from and you (and everybody else) have been very helpful to me. So I guess I will just keep doing what I am doing and set the big picture stuff off to the side somewhere and no longer consider it an important thing to contemplate.
 
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