The peacemakers shall becalled the sons of God.

[mystic64]

Well if you don't mind the imput from a Buddhist, your answer is further along in that same chapter: Matt 5:43-48

43 “You have heard that it was said, Love your neighbor and hate your enemy. 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. For He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward will you have? Don’t even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing out of the ordinary? Don’t even the Gentiles do the same? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Crossfire, as far as I am concerned all input is helpful . And you are another one of those very wise "staff" members. I have studied Buddha and the simple would have been "The truth that Buddha taught would answer the OP question." Except, of course, the word "God" would be replaced by the word "enlightened". But the heart of everything would remain the same. And one could say that one is not a true child of God until one is enlightened.

 

[mystic64]

God is one, religions all have elements from God and from man; thus only by examining all, can we truly be peacemakers globally, plus get a clearer perspective.

Wizanda you take things in an interesting direction. And I like your Revelation quote! Exploring and understanding the "clearer perspective" as a route to global peacemaking, the "oneness" of it all, was actually the foundation for my OP.

"So, what would be the oneness of it all?" Wizanda (anybody)? What is/would be the one single thing that every human being on this planet have in common? ! Or would that be the wrong way to approach things?

 

[crossfire]

Crossfire, as far as I am concerned all input is helpful . And you are another one of those very wise "staff" members. I have studied Buddha and the simple would have been "The truth that Buddha taught would answer the OP question." Except, of course, the word "God" would be replaced by the word "enlightened". But the heart of everything would remain the same. And one could say that one is not a true child of God until one is enlightened.

Well, the parallel to "love your enemies" that Buddha taught would be Dhammapada 1:1-6, which I'll hide so as not to disrupt the thread:

Spoiler: Dhammapada 1:1-6

1. Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with an impure mind a person speaks or acts suffering follows him like the wheel that follows the foot of the ox.

2. Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with a pure mind a person speaks or acts happiness follows him like his never-departing shadow.

3. "He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who harbor such thoughts do not still their hatred.

4. "He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who do not harbor such thoughts still their hatred.

5. Hatred is never appeased by hatred in this world. By non-hatred alone is hatred appeased. This is a law eternal.

6. There are those who do not realize that one day we all must die. But those who do realize this settle their quarrels.

 

[wizanda]

"So, what would be the oneness of it all?" Wizanda (anybody)? What is/would be the one single thing that every human being on this planet have in common? ! Or would that be the wrong way to approach things?

0neness has many understandings... My own understanding is it is the name of heaven, that manifests the reality we see around us.

Many religions have diluted this meaning to only mean the Oneness of Allah, or the Oneness of Christ, etc....Yet on being in heaven (during a NDE), the prophets don't sit there arguing about which author was best; yet sit in unison, as they have one focal point.

The reason that says Zero-ness, and not One-ness, can maybe answer your question; when beings attain the feeling of being One, they can feel a resonance with all other beings that feel One.

When major events happen, such as Princess Diana's death or 9/11.... This caused computers set on random in universities, to have fluctuations in their patterns; in other words, the conscious effect of everyone having one focal point, even affected computers isolated from the world.

 

[Etritonakin]

Matthew 5:9 "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the sons (children) of God"

Guys, I have been wrestling with this scripture for several years now and I would consider input from you all helpful, no matter what that input might be.

What does this scripture mean to you, if anything? And if it does mean something, then "What is the why and how of it?" I am having trouble understanding how anyone could possibly be a peacemaker in today'world. Everything in today's world is just way too fragmented. And if these peacemakers are going to be called the "sons (children) of God," then "What !?" How could that be possible? Debate is welcome and some "topic drift" is also welcome. Anybody?

Individuals can be peaceful -and even make situations better for others -even if the world is at odds.
God's purpose for us is to reproduce himself.
It is written in scripture that Christ is the "firstborn of many brethren" -though not born as human babies are born.
The human family is an analogy of God's purpose.
It is also written that we can be given a glorious body similar to the one by which the being whom became Christ created all things.
Elsewhere it says that the heavens and earth were created to be inhabited.
So -what we will do forever is basically anything we want -creating throughout the universe -but without conflict under the government of God.

 

[mystic64]

Well, the parallel to "love your enemies" that Buddha taught would be Dhammapada 1:1-6, which I'll hide so as not to disrupt the thread:

Spoiler: Dhammapada 1:1-6

1. Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with an impure mind a person speaks or acts suffering follows him like the wheel that follows the foot of the ox.

2. Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with a pure mind a person speaks or acts happiness follows him like his never-departing shadow.

3. "He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who harbor such thoughts do not still their hatred.

4. "He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who do not harbor such thoughts still their hatred.

5. Hatred is never appeased by hatred in this world. By non-hatred alone is hatred appeased. This is a law eternal.

6. There are those who do not realize that one day we all must die. But those who do realize this settle their quarrels.

Humm ? Sometimes when one is seeking a solve to something things that appear to be unrelated are actually a part of the solve. "Mind procedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind wrought." One of the things that we all have in common is a mind that is "wroughting" things (with maybe a pun intended ). And based on my experience, one's basic personality programming is set in concrete. The impure mind has its foundation in fear; The pure mind has its foundation in non fear. Fear creates fear; Non fear creates non fear. And again, "Humm?"

 

[mystic64]

0neness has many understandings... My own understanding is it is the name of heaven, that manifests the reality we see around us.

Many religions have diluted this meaning to only mean the Oneness of Allah, or the Oneness of Christ, etc....Yet on being in heaven (during a NDE), the prophets don't sit there arguing about which author was best; yet sit in unison, as they have one focal point.

The reason that says Zero-ness, and not One-ness, can maybe answer your question; when beings attain the feeling of being One, they can feel a resonance with all other beings that feel One.

When major events happen, such as Princess Diana's death or 9/11.... This caused computers set on random in universities, to have fluctuations in their patterns; in other words, the conscious effect of everyone having one focal point, even affected computers isolated from the world.

! What you are describing Wizanda is an "empathic" state of being. Zero-ness is a quiet mind with no thoughts. One-ness is a mind state that feels the minds (and emotions) of all things or just one thing in particular. Most folks can not maintain their sanity in a state of one-ness because there is no place to hide . So ok, we have physical reality and mind reality with potiential solve being a one-ness of all human mind realities? No place to hide? And how if any would that correlate with the concept of focus? Because focus would be a key to the solve.

 

[mystic64]

Individuals can be peaceful -and even make situations better for others -even if the world is at odds.
God's purpose for us is to reproduce himself.
It is written in scripture that Christ is the "firstborn of many brethren" -though not born as human babies are born.
The human family is an analogy of God's purpose.
It is also written that we can be given a glorious body similar to the one by which the being whom became Christ created all things.
Elsewhere it says that the heavens and earth were created to be inhabited.
So -what we will do forever is basically anything we want -creating throughout the universe -but without conflict under the government of God.

Etritonkin, I agree with what you have presented. "God's purpose for us is to reproduce Himself." That statement creates interesting . So can we help God with His purpose? And if so how would we go about helping God with His purpose? One suggestion presented was to be a living example of God's love for us. But folks that can do that seem to be extremely rare.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Guys, I have been wrestling with this scripture for several years now and I would consider input from you all helpful, no matter what that input might be.

This will be one of those "Whatever input that might be" posts. Some good input so far by the way.

The background of this teaching in the Beatitudes is complex and rich in cultural nuances. Reading the NT we are trying de-code all of that teaching and all of those nuances in that time far away. 'Peace' seems like an obvious word, but its used many ways by Jesus. When Jesus is born, angels sing "Peace on Earth!" In another place Jesus says "Think not that I have come to bring peace but a sword!..." Complicating it further we know that Jesus preached something called the 'Gospel', not to be confused with the 4 Gospels. Despite that there is not a NT passage that says "Here is the text of the gospel." We know it translates to 'Good news' and has something to do with a kingdom, but the nature of that kingdom and the text of the gospel gets debated. Ephesians calls it the 'Gospel of peace' in which the Pauline author imagines it is the joining of Jews and Gentiles, yet Jesus is speaking to Jews not gentiles when he preaches the Beatitudes.

If you are going to wrestle with the NT verse by verse like in your opening post, then you are in for a long match. Much of the time reading the NT by itself is insufficient. You need background on the people who lived in those days, how they lived, what they knew and thought. It gets complicated.

 

[Etritonakin]

Etritonkin, I agree with what you have presented. "God's purpose for us is to reproduce Himself." That statement creates interesting . So can we help God with His purpose? And if so how would we go about helping God with His purpose? One suggestion presented was to be a living example of God's love for us. But folks that can do that seem to be extremely rare.

Christ said that he came that we might have life -and more abundantly. The meaning of life really is just to live -because it is awesome -unless you do it wrong -and doing it right takes some learning -how could we possibly be good at it immediately?

 

[Eileen]

I would think some definitions would have to be made in reading these verses as well a finding the context of them.

Biblically- what is a peacemaker? Biblically what does this phrase 'sons of God' mean and finally what does it mean to be called such?

My way of determining these definitions is to compare Scripture with Scripture and bring that forward to the Apostolic writings (NT). That will take some time so I will get back to you on what I find. Interesting discussion though.

 

[mystic64]

This will be one of those "Whatever input that might be" posts. Some good input so far by the way.

The background of this teaching in the Beatitudes is complex and rich in cultural nuances. Reading the NT we are trying de-code all of that teaching and all of those nuances in that time far away. 'Peace' seems like an obvious word, but its used many ways by Jesus. When Jesus is born, angels sing "Peace on Earth!" In another place Jesus says "Think not that I have come to bring peace but a sword!..." Complicating it further we know that Jesus preached something called the 'Gospel', not to be confused with the 4 Gospels. Despite that there is not a NT passage that says "Here is the text of the gospel." We know it translates to 'Good news' and has something to do with a kingdom, but the nature of that kingdom and the text of the gospel gets debated. Ephesians calls it the 'Gospel of peace' in which the Pauline author imagines it is the joining of Jews and Gentiles, yet Jesus is speaking to Jews not gentiles when he preaches the Beatitudes.

If you are going to wrestle with the NT verse by verse like in your opening post, then you are in for a long match. Much of the time reading the NT by itself is insufficient. You need background on the people who lived in those days, how they lived, what they knew and thought. It gets complicated.

! What you have posted Brickjectivity is undeniably wisdom. "It gets complicated", seems to be the norm when it comes to a lot of stuff, the NT included. Yep this topic has gotten some good input which also includes yours. "Good news that has something to do with a kingdom ." I like that, it kind of puts things in a nutshell. Humm? It was Paul that made Christianity available to everybody that might be interested. The disciples called him on it but in the end said ok to it. And then told him to go do it somewhere else . And the rest is history/legend. Originally Christianity was a Jewish sect, but it took on a life of its own and then wandered off from the Jewish faith. Well if the good news has something to do with a kingdom and blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of the God of that kingdom, then what? So I guess, "What did they mean by the word "peace" back in those days?"

 

[mystic64]

I would think some definitions would have to be made in reading these verses as well a finding the context of them.

Biblically- what is a peacemaker? Biblically what does this phrase 'sons of God' mean and finally what does it mean to be called such?

My way of determining these definitions is to compare Scripture with Scripture and bring that forward to the Apostolic writings (NT). That will take some time so I will get back to you on what I find. Interesting discussion though.

Eileen you asked my question before I could post it . And the rest of the questions that you have presented are good places to start. I just assumed that if you were called one to the sons of God that you were cool and pretty lock in . And that God or the Holy spirit whould have to be telling you what to say before you could even begin to be a peacemaker, global or otherwise. Or maybe not. Maybe a person could be just gifted at that kind of stuff and because of that gift they would be blessed. There are folks that are born with a loving gentle heart, but for most of us not so much . We have to work at it. Could peacemaking work the same way? Anybody?

 

[nazz]

Matthew 5:9 "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the sons (children) of God"

Guys, I have been wrestling with this scripture for several years now and I would consider input from you all helpful, no matter what that input might be.

What does this scripture mean to you, if anything? And if it does mean something, then "What is the why and how of it?" I am having trouble understanding how anyone could possibly be a peacemaker in today'world. Everything in today's world is just way too fragmented. And if these peacemakers are going to be called the "sons (children) of God," then "What !?" How could that be possible? Debate is welcome and some "topic drift" is also welcome. Anybody?

Seems to me the more conflict the more the need for peacemaking

 

[mystic64]

Christ said that he came that we might have life -and more abundantly. The meaning of life really is just to live -because it is awesome -unless you do it wrong -and doing it right takes some learning -how could we possibly be good at it immediately?

You make a good point Etritonakin. And it is the old, "we were born without an owners manual" thing. And the Holy Scriptures of all religions are suspose to be a version of that missing owners manual. The problem is trying to figure out what they are trying to say, if one is a normal type person who is just trying to get through life. I like the idea that life is awesome , but I think that that would require an attitude that most of us do not have. Most of us need an attitude adjustment . But I do like your approach to things Etritonakin! They create hope.

 

[mystic64]

Seems to me the more conflict the more the need for peacemaking

Oh so true! And on top of that I am inclined to be a chaos generator at heart (Mystie looks a Crossfire and 's). Which is probably why I presented this topic. So Nazz, do you think a person has to be born a peacemaker or can a person learn to be a peacemaker, should they be inclined to be a peacemaker?

 

[nazz]

Oh so true! And on top of that I am inclined to be a chaos generator at heart (Mystie looks a Crossfire and 's). Which is probably why I presented this topic. So Nazz, do you think a person has to be born a peacemaker or can a person learn to be a peacemaker, should they be inclined to be a peacemaker?

Could be one or the other or a combination of the two. Nature plus nurture. Or one can be transformed into a peacemaker.

 

[Eileen]

Peace is not merely the absence of conflict, but the presence of justice". Whether Martin Luther King, Augustine or Harrison Ford first said this really does not matter. It is true and it is also a basic concept of Torah. Biblically, peace, justice, mercy and righteousness (right doing) are wrapped up together as a whole.

Psa 37:37 Consider the blameless man, and behold the righteous(upright, the one doing right): for the end of that man is peace. A true peacemaker must be one who does what is right according to HaShem.

Psa 85:10 Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other.

To bring true peace to any situation mercy and truth must be coupled with right doing.

For a Jew in Yeshua’s time truth, mercy, righteousness and peace were all defined by Torah.

Psa 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and Thy law (Torah) is the truth.);

Psa 117:2 For His merciful kindness is great toward us: and the truth of the LORD endures forever. Praise ye the LORD.

Psa 119:165 Great peace have they which love thy law (Torah): and nothing shall cause them to stumble.

Pro 16:7 When a man's ways please the LORD, he makes even his enemies to be at peace with him.

Isa 32:17 And the work of righteousness (justice or righteous acts) shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness (justice or righteous acts) quietness (peace) and safety forever.

Isa 54:13 And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children.

Zec 8:16 These are the things that ye shall do; Speak ye every man the truth to his neighbor; execute the judgment of truth and peace in your gates:

The people listening to Yeshua would have understood a peacemaker to be an upright person who knew and followed Torah. He/she would be one who based his decisions and action on the judgments of HaShem contained in Torah. He/she would be one who married mercy with justice helped others understand the judgments of HaShem.

Mal 2:6 The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity.This was a promise to Levi but would also apply to any peacemaker.This also describes Yeshua. Although as he said, he did not come to bring peace, I believe he knew turning people back to Torah would cause problems for many who did not want to be submitted to HaShem’s instructions.

He also said those who followed his leading would have peace- his peace which obviously was not without conflict. Yeshua tells us in John 12:27 that the peace he gives is not the peace the world gives but that we should not be troubled or afraid. Yeshua was called the son of HaShem and those who patterned their life after him would also qualify as son or children of HaShem.

Phl 2:15 …that ye may be harmless and simple, irreproachable sons (or children) of God in the midst of a crooked and perverted generation; among whom ye appear as lights in the world,

So that is my take on the verses you put forth.

 

[crossfire]

Oh so true! And on top of that I am inclined to be a chaos generator at heart (Mystie looks a Crossfire and 's). Which is probably why I presented this topic. So Nazz, do you think a person has to be born a peacemaker or can a person learn to be a peacemaker, should they be inclined to be a peacemaker?

Me? A Chaos Generator? I am honored. (However I don't think I have enough room for that badge along with my other "lazycop-out heretic troll" badges. Maybe I'll retire the lazycop-out badge to make room for the Chaos Generator badge.
If I didn't love my enemies and treat others fairly, then I'd never be able to get away with being a chaos generator.

 

[mystic64]

Me? A Chaos Generator? I am honored. (However I don't think I have enough room for that badge along with my other "lazycop-out heretic troll" badges. Maybe I'll retire the lazycop-out badge to make room for the Chaos Generator badge.
If I didn't love my enemies and treat others fairly, then I'd never be able to get away with being a chaos generator.

I was just giving you a hard time Crossfire . And the question sometimes is, "Chaos for who?" Sometimes it takes an apache to hunt an apache. Anyway I will always remember the things that were said in my introduce yourself topic when I first joined RF and because of that there will always be a place in my heart for you . The majority of folks that hang out on message boards are at heart chaos generators. It is the nature of the psycho-social dynamics of most message boards and for the most part why they are a lot of fun for the viewers. Those that can't be civilized about it are asked to leave and the rest of us just party on and have a lot of fun . Foxes in the fox house, no hens !