The old "New School Prayer" email.

[it's_sam]

When BTW did i say religion is christianity? IMO, religion = higher focus then yourself.

 

[it's_sam]

All im saying here is that its OUR right to practice religion no matter what we call it and wherever our practice is called for. If they were wrong on something people are good at letting you know and this is how we learn. You say because you disagree, that there should be no government funding for this type of choice. I disagree when the rights are for the people and these ARE the people AND the majority. We dont exclude you but you arent asking for funding to support your way of thinking in a building as to try and "boost the community" OHH WAIT we do! science, art, military, corperations, etc....

 

[Duck]

When I was in school there was a group of kids that started a prayer circle during lunch everyday and when they were done they would discuss various aspects of religion. I didn't attend but i most certainly didn't protest. Because these kids were making a "scene" everyday they forced the kids to not have such gatherings during their "FREE TIME" at school. Much like how the dont say the pledge of alleigence in class the words of a religion are frowned upon socialy speaking. If you don't partake in this, im most happy for you but saying what you do makes others find reason to speak up that arent going to restrain themselves. For what? so you can have what YOU want?

Did the school administration give reasons for not allowing the kids to meet? Perhaps the school administration felt or had complaints that this group was being disruptive in some way?

I also don't understand what the last line of your remark is directed at, could you elaborate on the last sentence or two please?

 

[it's_sam]

Yes they said it was making a scene and was disruptive because of non-beleivers.

 

[Magic Man]

Yes they said it was making a scene and was disruptive because of non-beleivers.

They specifically said "because of non-believers"? If that is true, then someone should have fought it like people are fighting this ban.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

When I was in school there was a group of kids that started a prayer circle during lunch everyday and when they were done they would discuss various aspects of religion. I didn't attend but i most certainly didn't protest. Because these kids were making a "scene" everyday they forced the kids to not have such gatherings during their "FREE TIME" at school.

I'm extremely skeptical of your claim. I have never heard of a public school official refusing to allow students to exercise their right to pray in their own way. Do you have any evidence to corroborate your claim?

If that did happen, then the parents of these students should have stepped in to have the administrator change his position. No court of law in the US would allow the administrator to impinge on a students right to pray before lunch, on his own time.

Much like how the dont say the pledge of alleigence in class the words of a religion are frowned upon socialy speaking. If you don't partake in this, im most happy for you but saying what you do makes others find reason to speak up that arent going to restrain themselves. For what? so you can have what YOU want?

Would you mind limiting your red herring arguments? It's hard enough to try to educate you to understand one basic concept at a time.

IM saying that exactly excpet you dont want to see religion in this equation.

Again, I have to question your ability to read and digest the written word. Religion is the very core issue that we are discussing.

Try to keep up.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Anyone who doesn't realize they can think to themselves anytime they want - including thinking they're talking to god - is just taking up valuable educational resources better spent on somebody else who isn't brain damaged.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

All im saying here is that its OUR right to practice religion no matter what we call it and wherever our practice is called for. If they were wrong on something people are good at letting you know and this is how we learn. You say because you disagree, that there should be no government funding for this type of choice. I disagree when the rights are for the people and these ARE the people AND the majority. We dont exclude you but you arent asking for funding to support your way of thinking in a building as to try and "boost the community" OHH WAIT we do! science, art, military, corperations, etc....

Okay, I'll play along. Who is the "OUR" that you are referring to in your opening sentence?
When you refer to the "Majority", who are you referring to?

And once again, let me tell you that I pay taxes just like you.

Oh - and even though you don't seem to be able to grasp this, I do not argue based on my views of religion - yours, mine, or anyone else's.

 

[Duck]

Actually, I just like when people tell me just what I wrote, as if everyone believes in a god.

I am not sure but I think I got confused. Did we snark around each other or did I completely miss the point?

 

[Magic Man]

I am not sure but I think I got confused. Did we snark around each other or did I completely miss the point?

I'm just saying that, while I agree your snarky comment was good, the fact that the comment I made is something I actually here makes it that much worse to me.

 

[Duck]

I'm just saying that, while I agree your snarky comment was good, the fact that the comment I made is something I actually here makes it that much worse to me.

Ahhh, I think I see. Perchance are you a non-theist, I am just wondering. I kind of draw that conclusion but I might be confusing myself again, today seems to be the day of confusion for me.

 

[T-Dawg]

So my boss sent me the following email:

New School Prayer

Now I sit me down in school,
Where praying is against the rule

For this great nation under God,
Finds mention of Him very odd.

If scripture now the class recites,
It violates the Bill of Rights.

And anytime my head I bow,
Becomes a Federal matter now.

Our hair can be purple, orange or green,
That's no offense; it's a freedom scene.

The law is specific, the law is precise.
Prayers spoken aloud are a serious vice.

For praying in a public hall,
Might offend someone with no faith at all.

In silence alone we must meditate,
God's name is prohibited by the state.

We're allowed to cuss and dress like freaks,
And pierce our noses, tongues and cheeks...

They've outlawed guns, but FIRST the Bible.
To quote the Good Book makes me liable.

We can elect a pregnant Senior Queen,
And the 'unwed daddy, our Senior King.

It's ‘inappropriate' to teach right from wrong,
We're taught that such 'judgments' do not belong.

We can get our condoms and birth controls,
Study witchcraft, vampires and totem poles.

But the Ten Commandments are not allowed,
No word of God must reach this crowd.

It's scary here I must confess,
When chaos reigns the school's a mess.

So, Lord, this silent plea I make:
Should I be shot; My soul please take!

Amen


To which I replied:

First off, "under god" wasn't added until 1954. Why the original, founding pledge wasn't good enough for the theocrats is beyond me.

I'm all in favor of allowing prayer in school, as long as it isn't taking up class time, although the time would better be spent teaching more science. After all, in no small part thanks to religious fanaticism, antiscience attitudes are rampant in this country and severely hindering scientific education and progress in this country relative to others.

If we are going to display and encourage the ten commandments, why not display their punishments, which in all cases, even not keeping the sabath and dishonoring your parents, is death. You could say that Jesus negated this with the "cast the first stone" bit, but then he contradicted himself by also stating in Matthew 5:17 that he has come to affirm the law, and that it is not to be altered.

But more fundamentally, why is it such a tragedy to respect that there are children, and adults, in this country and our public schools, that don't believe what you do? Not everyone illogically believes in an intelligent, loving god that thinks people deserve to burn in hell forever for not believing, through no chosen fault of their own, in the correct unknowable idea.

The founding fathers were brilliant in recognizing how personal and important faith is to the individual. Our FIRST amendment in the bill of rights beautifully suggests that we should maintain a respect of that, and allow free exercise of religion, and also not tyrannically impose the beliefs of even the many, onto the few. Why take a backstep from such a brilliant, freedom inducing concept? Its precepts like these that have made our country the most free nation on earth. If you want a theocracy, look no further than Iran.


Am I out of place replying with my two cents at work, if he's the one that pandered this crap to me? Did I leave anything out? Any thoughts?

You should probably correct his erroneous remark that the Bible and Ten Commandments have been outlawed. While I agree that the Bible SHOULD be outlawed in homes with children, possession of Bibles, and even evangelizing in public, remains legal.

 

[Magic Man]

Ahhh, I think I see. Perchance are you a non-theist, I am just wondering. I kind of draw that conclusion but I might be confusing myself again, today seems to be the day of confusion for me.

Yes, I am an atheist, technically an atheistic trampolinist.

 

[Tyr]

Hmmm

We're allowed to cuss and dress like freaks,
And pierce our noses, tongues and cheeks...

Like freaks? Gotta love hypocritical Christians, biggest message in their religion is acceptance of everyone.

We can get our condoms and birth controls

Well if the sender would prefer the world having even more stds and situations like this (which was in the little poem)

We can elect a pregnant Senior Queen,
And the 'unwed daddy, our Senior King.

Messed up set of beliefs the creator of that poem had.

 

[McBell]

All im saying here is that its OUR right to practice religion no matter what we call it and wherever our practice is called for.

Actually, no you don't.
At least not in the USA.

You say because you disagree, that there should be no government funding for this type of choice.

Actually the founding law of the USA is that the government is not allowed to promote any one religion over another.

It is not personal opinion.
It is the FOUNDING LAW OF THE USA.

I disagree when the rights are for the people and these ARE the people AND the majority. We dont exclude you but you arent asking for funding to support your way of thinking in a building as to try and "boost the community" OHH WAIT we do! science, art, military, corperations, etc....

Now you are merely doing non-sense ranting.
Unless of course you are claiming that science, military, etc. are religions.
Are you making such an asinine claim?

 

[T-Dawg]

Yes, I am an atheist, technically an atheistic trampolinist.

What's a trampolinist?

 

[Magic Man]

What's a trampolinist?

You've been here this long and you don't know? It's a follower of the Girls-on-Trampolines religion.

 

[Tyr]

It is a great religion.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

... Are you making such an asinine claim?

Do you doubt his ability to do so?

 

[McBell]

Do you doubt his ability to do so?

Not in the least little bit.
Thus the reason I flat out asked.