The new Athiest Humanities downfall?

[TransmutingSoul]

This would be an example of what I just wrote about. The source of virtue, morals, justice, and truthfulness need not be a god. It could well be human evolution and human culture.

Yet God can not be dismissed from the process, as scripture tells me that the human capacity is all part of the evolution process and will always be.

Regards Tony

 

[lukethethird]

Well it was not aimed at any one, aspects of the list are used on RF, the total list would reflect a mindset, that if it was a movement, the question asked would it be the downfall of humanity.

So if you see the list has no content that any athiest would use, then that is great.

But personally I see it would be very ignorant to dismiss the list without comparing it against replies given on RF.

If one does aspects of the list stand out, others do not, they would be mostly one off replies. I have had a Militant reply from an RF poster, but I do not know if that poster would be Militant in real life.

The key to this OP is how will we find unity?

Thus people that push books against God, books such as the OP has quoted and have brought about the term New Athiest, will not aid in us funding that unity. Likewise Faith can not be pushed in to those that do not want it.

I know I can live with people that see life as an athiest, but to do this we must find a balance with core values and morals to build a united humanity.

Regards Tony

It would be the religious fanatic that wrote that list that causes nothing but disunity, and that appears to be the intent.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yeah, the dear bumblebee. I know how to do it.
“With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion.”
That is proper science and it can't be doubted, because then you are evil.

I don't agree with that quote.
Whoever said it....go argue with them about it.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I notice also that you haven't apologized for any of the scurrilous accusations of atheists in your OP. Like so many theists, you try to depict yourself as a fair and loving person, but you are just another vector for atheophobia. You talk of unity and world peace as you start threads attempting to marginalize and demonize atheists. You want your religion to be seen as more modern and enlightened, but I've got to say that whereas I used to include Baha'i in the list of less toxic religions, now I see it as yet another Abrahamic religion trying to advance itself with deception and scapegoating. You give off an aura of being fairly receptive to any kind of theism while continuing to demean atheism. So, this antitheist, who believes that organized religion is toxic, has added your faith to that list. I wish for any religion that teaches its adherents bigotry against atheists to disappear.

Please note that I am not the one making this personal. It is an article I came across, that is actually worthy of discussion, as somewhere in the future a balance will have to be found.

If anyone was to offer that God will naturally become obsolete during the process of evolution, would that not support concepts such as God is Delusional?

I have to date offered that aspects of the List are used regularly on RF, in individual replies, but do not see the list as a whole is applicable to any person on RF.

Also items 3, 11 and 12 have been the most contested, yet in individual replies aspects of those 3 points have also been noted.

Personally I do not see that New Athiest is a movement, but the OP was here to explore the possibility.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I observe that believers must find the same thing between each
other....not just with atheists. The faithful are a diverse bunch, eh.

There is 1 thing that so many of us all have in common....rejecting
other people's gods.

Luckily we can change.

Regards Tony

 

[wandering peacefully]

This is a discussion on an article I found about 'New Athiest' and the list it contained.

What part of the list do you see is bogus?

The list is something you chose to repost so you own it Tony. When you chose to start a thread which is obviously another one meant to demean and scorn atheists, even going as far as to suggest atheists are responsible for the destruction and downfall of humanity, that's all you. You are responsible for furthering the misinformation. You made the choice to talk out one side of your face about unity in diversity being the highest goals of you and your faith, and at the same time, leaving out all of those diverse groups who do not believe as you do including atheists.

No Tony, double speak will always leave you empty and devoid of respect from anyone you expose your "truth" to. No one takes a person seriously who foolishly tries to disguise their true intentions behind sticky sweet double speak.

So much for unifying Bahai speech.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The list is something you chose to repost so you own it Tony. When you chose to start a thread which is obviously another one meant to demean and scorn atheists, even going as far as to suggest atheists are responsible for the destruction and downfall of humanity, that's all you. You are responsible for furthering the misinformation. You made the choice to talk out one side of your face about unity in diversity being the highest goals of you and your faith, and at the same time, leaving out all of those diverse groups who do not believe as you do including atheists.

No Tony, double speak will always leave you empty and devoid of respect from anyone you expose your "truth" to. No one takes a person seriously who foolishly tries to disguise their true intentions behind sticky sweet double speak.

So much for unifying Bahai speech.

Some may find the conversations hard and aimed at division.

I do not, I see they are needed to break down predudices.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So much for unifying Bahai speech.

I would add, the entire Message of Baha’u’llah calls us to unity.

That Message contains all these conversations.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It would be the religious fanatic that wrote that list that causes nothing but disunity, and that appears to be the intent.

Maybe a more elevated capacity to discuss these issues may he needed. For people to rise above their own selves for the greater good?

Regards Tony

 

[joe1776]

I would add, the entire Message of Baha’u’llah calls us to unity.

That Message contains all these conversations.

Regards Tony

Tony, long term, I'm optimistic. I see us humans making moral progress. I think that barring some calamity that ends all life, we are headed for global harmony. However, since the one undeniable characteristic of religion is its propensity to divide itself into sects, I see religion not as the vehicle that will get us there but as an obstacle to be overcome.

If I'm wrong, why?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I wasn't referring to the fact that there are theists and they still believe in various supernatural concepts. I was referring to WHAT they believe as not being consistent with what we understand of reality, namely that no supernatural phenomenon is known to exist.

That would be your understanding, your stance in faith of your view, which cannot disprove supernatural phenomenon.

NDE and Dreaming can not be understood only by science.

RegardsTony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Tony, long term, I'm optimistic. I see us humans making moral progress. I think that barring some calamity that ends all life, we are headed for global harmony. However, since the one undeniable characteristic of religion is its propensity to divide itself into sects, I see religion not as the vehicle that will get us there but as an obstacle to be overcome.

If I'm wrong, why?

Thank you for your optimism as well joe1776.

I see the Covenant given of God now directs our future. It is guiding us to our oneness and unity.

The Baha'i Faith will remain undivided as it has been written into the Law.

This ability to have undivided faith, with all our conflicting views will also bring all faiths together, to a realisation of our oneness.

These are early days in building our unity, but is is happening around the world in many ways via many various paths.

In 1893 the move started amongst religions.

Home | Parliament of the World's Religions

The Governments of the world will likewise see the need for unity.

Regards Tony

 

[rational experiences]

If men stopped arguing.

Any of you is born by human sex.

Leave preceding indoctrination out of your argument.

Present presence life was said the holy virtue of a human.

Right now.

Think for yourself.

Where is science?

Just men's belief by thoughts.

Are your thoughts science?

No.

So where does science for a human begin?

With O one earth rock body.

Without the planet no heavens of earths would exist. Basic advice.

Status where you live. O earth.

Men named earth the God energy as it is the only body that scientists could man ipulate as a human.

Space thesis fake. As pressure that applies to why any type of body exists is space owned zero.

No numbers. Just pressure the zero status.

Men of science said the holy mother of creation womb space zero.

Was a basic teaching to human men in science.

As the status you own no other argument as a human equal by form.

If your intelligence is so lacking today that you can no longer use basic advice the..
your man owned destroyer scientist warning is being lived.

Consciously by changed man's chemical brain imbalances behaviours. Which owns a large list of human self destructive reasons.

 

[joe1776]

Thank you for your optimism as well joe1776.

I see the Covenant given of God now directs our future. It is guiding us to our oneness and unity.

The Baha'i Faith will remain undivided as it has been written into the Law.

This ability to have undivided faith, with all our conflicting views will also bring all faiths together, to a realisation of our oneness.

These are early days in building our unity, but is is happening around the world in many ways via many various paths.

In 1893 the move started amongst religions.

Home | Parliament of the World's Religions

The Governments of the world will likewise see the need for unity.

Regards Tony

I like the chances of the Global Citizenship Movement to gather momentum precisely because it doesn't limit itself to unity among religions. It's open to atheists, agnostics and religious people alike.

The movement has infiltrated the United Nations.

Global Citizenship | United Nations

 

[F1fan]

That would be your understanding, your stance in faith of your view, which cannot disprove supernatural phenomenon.

Are you asking me how I can think in such a way that disproves a phenomenon that isn't known to exist?

Why does anyone have two prove something not known to exist doesn't exist? That's proving a negative which is a logical fallacy. You can't prove unicorns don't exist. Nor the Keebler Elves (even if the cookies are magically delicious they are probably just made by humans).

This is why the burden of proof rests with those who claim X is true. If a person claims their God exists then it is on THAT person to demonstrate that it does.

If they state they believe in God and that we should too, we will demand they give us a reasonable explanation, with evidence, that compels our objective minds that they are onto something. But theists tend to fail at any sort of explanation, mostly due to a lack of facts, and how their beliefs are consistent with what we understand of reality.

NDE and Dreaming can not be understood only by science.

What other objective process, that tests?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I like the chances of the Global Citizenship Movement to gather momentum precisely because it doesn't limit itself to unity among religions. It's open to atheists, agnostics and religious people alike.

The movement has infiltrated the United Nations.

Global Citizenship | United Nations

That is a great example, the Baha'i strongly support this movement.

"Fostering world citizenship is a practical strategy for promoting sustainable development. So long as disunity, antagonism and provincialism characterize the social, political and economic relations within and among nations, a global, sustainable pattern of development can not be established. Over a century ago Bahá’u’lláh warned, "The well-being of mankind, its peace and security, are unattainable unless and until its unity is firmly established." Only upon a foundation of genuine unity, harmony and understanding among the diverse peoples and nations of the world, can a sustainable global society be erected."

Bahá’í International Community, 1993 Jun 14, World citizenship A Global Ethic for Sustainable Development

Regards Tony.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Are you asking me how I can think in such a way that disproves a phenomenon that isn't known to exist?

Why does anyone have two prove something not known to exist doesn't exist? That's proving a negative which is a logical fallacy. You can't prove unicorns don't exist. Nor the Keebler Elves (even if the cookies are magically delicious they are probably just made by humans).

This is why the burden of proof rests with those who claim X is true. If a person claims their God exists then it is on THAT person to demonstrate that it does.

If they state they believe in God and that we should too, we will demand they give us a reasonable explanation, with evidence, that compels our objective minds that they are onto something. But theists tend to fail at any sort of explanation, mostly due to a lack of facts, and how their beliefs are consistent with what we understand of reality.


What other objective process, that tests?

The simple thing would you be to prove God and the Spiritual capacity of humans does not exist.

If you do not wish to do that, please stop asking for a person to prove God.

You to yours me to mine, as to the everlasting mind, we are subject to time and death will define.

Regards Tony

 

[F1fan]

Yeah. a historical count of reasons for wars show about 7% being due to religion. So yeah, if that is major to you, I accept that. And then we disagree as usual.

If it is only 7% then they are calculating it from a narrow definition. Even the American Revolution was a conflict where patriots disputed the divine right of a king, and instead established a government where men were endowed by their creator to rule themselves.

 

[F1fan]

The simple thing would you be to prove God and the Spiritual capacity of humans does not exist.

Theists can't even simply prove any of their 5000+ gods exist. Why would i need to prove their gods don't exist when they cannot prove they do?

That some theists are damn certain their god exists, yet can't explain how a rational mind would agree with them, is the fatal blow.

If you do not wish to do that, please stop asking for a person to prove God.

As I already stated, claimants, like yourself, have the burden of proof. I'm not convinced you are correct.

You to yours me to mine, as to the everlasting mind, we are subject to time and death will define.

I'm not sure what this means.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

As I already stated, claimants, like yourself, have the burden of proof. I'm not convinced you are correct.

I have no burden at all. I have no need or any desire to convince you of anything, that is all up to you.

That is how God works in this world.

Regards Tony