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The message of the cross is foolishness!

Hope

Princesinha
This thread is the perfect example to me of why I am so frustrated and confused and saddened by modern-day Christianity. On the one hand, you have people who, while being faithful to the truth of God's Word (which I applaud), tend to go overboard at times and stress only the negative aspects of the Christian faith, and try to "bash" people into believing. SR, I admire your stance for truth, but please consider the manner in which you are doing it.

Then I find there are those who go to the opposite extreme, who are so inclusive, and so touchy-feely, and stress only God's love---and not His holiness and righteous judgment---that they water down the Gospel, and sometimes distort it altogether.

Both sides of the coin tend to ignore those parts of Scripture that don't fit in with their personal biases. If we call ourselves Christians, we are supposed to believe the whole counsel of God, as contained in His Word. Not just bits and pieces that suit us. If we doubt the veracity of Scripture, then I wonder if we even have the right to call ourselves Christians.

The fact of the matter is that the cross of Christ is foolishness, and offensive, to the majority of the world. If it were not, then everyone would probably be a Christian. The reason it is offensive is because it tells us we are sinful, and I will be the first to admit I don't like being called a sinner. My ego doesn't like that at all. So, to those who are unwilling to be called sinners, it is definitely offensive. I'm not convinced by those who claim it's not offensive in that light. But, the flip side is, for those who recognize they are sinful, and in need of a saviour, the cross becomes a beautiful thing. The Gospel definitely then becomes what it actually means: good news. And it is definitely a Gospel of love. Who can argue against John 3:16? "For God so loved the world...."

I think we need to look at the whole of Scripture to get a balanced perspective. Yes, we are children of wrath, and deserve hell, as SR pointed out, but to only stress that part of Scripture, is ignoring other parts of Scripture, like Genesis, as someone else pointed out. We are also made in God's image, and therefore have an inherent value. Psalm 139 is a good illustration of this fact. The reason we deserve hell is not because God made us evil, or imperfect, and He derives some sick, twisted pleasure from torturing us----we only deserve hell because of the Fall. God created us in His image, for His pleasure, that He might have intimate fellowship with Him; we are the ones who ruined that sweet fellowship through sin. The cross is His answer to restoring our fellowship with Him.
 

FatMan

Well-Known Member
And people wonder why a lot of good contributors leave RF. You have people whose sole purpose is to push forward a slanted agenda, and when called on it, hide.
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Ok i admit mine is the son of man testing you all, only small point...yet did mention it again and again in many books....
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
It apears you are proclaiming the gospel of love, the same gospel according to Scuba Pete. Here's a copy and paste to what I think about your unbibilcal gospel of love.
Obviously, love has no place in Special Revelation's Gospel. I guess that's what makes him so, uh, "special".
Hey Scuba Pete,
I think you are believing a different gospel
So, let me get this straight. I make a HUGE point that you can't provide any scriptural basis for all believers being offended, and THIS is the best you can do? Why the bait and switch? You can't trot out the requested scriptures and you have the arrogance to tell me that I adhere to man made doctrines? This is a constant pattern for you isn't it? You make a statement only to be able to support a teeny tiny portion of it. When challenged to bring forth the scriptural support you debase yourself and the forum by attacking my spirituality. This is extrapolation at it's absolute WORST.

For someone who CLAIMS to be a sola scripturist, you rely very little on scripture and quite, quite heavily on your own tradition. That you try to pass off your tradition as being the will of God is utterly disgusting. Your gospel is fraught with arrogance and error.

Next time, have the gonads to ADMIT that you don't have the scriptures to back it up. Lying to us and trying to divert attention elsewhere is the work of Satan.
 
It apears you are proclaiming the gospel of love, the same gospel according to Scuba Pete. Here's a copy and paste to what I think about your unbibilcal gospel of love.

The Bible describe the Gospel as follows”

1. Gospel of the kingdom
2 Gospel about Jesus Christ
3. Gospel of the glory of Christ
4. Gospel of God’s grace
5. Gospel of God
6. Gospel of His Son
7. Gospel of Christ
8. My (Paul) Gospel
9. Gospel of your salvation
10. Gospel of peace
11. Gospel of our Our Lord Jesus

I am so confused. Can somebody send me a new Bible. Mine contains the gospel of love and message of hope, peace, and kindness. I apparently got the wrong one.

Hey Doppel...why won't you let everyone know what you beileve in regards to Satan? I will call your ball in your hand... the CRYSTAL BALL, is that okay?

This thread took a wild step towards crazy, real quick.

I have to go to work my friend. I don't really believe you are an attorney by the amount of time you spend on this site.

Stay tuned - the spiritual battle we continue. The Sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God verses the magic of the crystal ball...

:knight: :fight: :magic:

Doppel, bail out! He's on to your secret!

~matthew.william~
 

McBell

mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
:yes: Accuser
I completely disagree.
Scuba Pete did not accuse anyone of anything in that post.
He merely stated facts.

However, I would be most interested in hearing what part of his post you think is an accusation.
 

McBell

mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
Quoted....:help:.....sorry.......
satan is the accuser......
Hmm.
Are you asaying that you were not calling Scuba Pete an accuser but instead agreeing with his comment: " Lying to us and trying to divert attention elsewhere is the work of Satan.?"
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
No need to apologize.
It was I who jumped to conclusions.
I jumped the gun and made an assumption.
My apologies for doing such.
It ok, must seem i come across arguing....don't mean too...... just frustrating on certain points....like Justice for all…. :rainbow1:
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
Certainly, the truth will set you free... unfortunately, it sometimes hurts like the dickens while it's doing it's thing.

Traditions are fine and have a place in our life IF we keep them in perspective. Take the undergarments of the Mormons we have beens discussing. I certainly can find no reference to that in the NT in support of them, but neither do I find any scriptures CONDEMNING this practice. I also don't see an indication by those who do this that they feel that this replaces baptism or having a relationship with Jesus. In fact, they have to a member indicated quite the opposite and have been MORE than forthcoming about their beliefs.

So, who is right? Should we all go out and buy these holy garments?

Well, in this case, BOTH are right. As long as we act out of faith, Christianity provides a rather large latitude in how we praise God. I hav just quoted this scripture, but it bears repeating:

Galatians 5:6 (snip)
The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love. -NIV

Let's look at how some people judged others...

Colossians 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. -NIV

The issue is to depart from legalism. We were not freed from law to be enslaved by another. No, Christians have a new heart and are encouraged to keep it tender.

Galatians 5:13 You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. 14 The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself." 15 If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.
16 So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17 For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.
-NIV

BTW, this is the BEST description of the Gospel of Love. Those who would have us remove love from Christianity are under a strong delusion.

For those who would like a more concrete connection of the Gospel with Love I give you this:

Colossians 1:3 We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you, 4 because we have heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of the love you have for all the saints— 5 the faith and love that spring from the hope that is stored up for you in heaven and that you have already heard about in the word of truth, the gospel 6 that has come to you. -NIV
 

Special Revelation

Active Member
Certainly, the truth will set you free... unfortunately, it sometimes hurts like the dickens while it's doing it's thing.

Traditions are fine and have a place in our life IF we keep them in perspective. Take the undergarments of the Mormons we have beens discussing. I certainly can find no reference to that in the NT in support of them, but neither do I find any scriptures CONDEMNING this practice. I also don't see an indication by those who do this that they feel that this replaces baptism or having a relationship with Jesus. In fact, they have to a member indicated quite the opposite and have been MORE than forthcoming about their beliefs.

So, who is right? Should we all go out and buy these holy garments?

Well, in this case, BOTH are right. As long as we act out of faith, Christianity provides a rather large latitude in how we praise God. I hav just quoted this scripture, but it bears repeating:

Galatians 5:6 (snip) The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love. -NIV

Let's look at how some people judged others...

Colossians 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. -NIV

The issue is to depart from legalism. We were not freed from law to be enslaved by another. No, Christians have a new heart and are encouraged to keep it tender.

Galatians 5:13 You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. 14 The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself." 15 If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.
16 So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17 For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.-NIV

BTW, this is the BEST description of the Gospel of Love. Those who would have us remove love from Christianity are under a strong delusion.

For those who would like a more concrete connection of the Gospel with Love I give you this:

Colossians 1:3 We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you, 4 because we have heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of the love you have for all the saints— 5 the faith and love that spring from the hope that is stored up for you in heaven and that you have already heard about in the word of truth, the gospel 6 that has come to you. -NIV

Hello Mr Scuba Pete,

Proclaiming a gospel of love without condemnation from the law is a false gospel. It is a false gospel that the world wants to embrace. Please read "The Gospel by RC Sproul". God demonstrated His love for us (believers), in that while we were still SINNERS, Christ died for us. Why did Jesus Christ have to die? Because we are condemned guilty sinners under the wrath of God. - SR

The Gospel

"There is no greater message to be heard than that which we call the Gospel. But as important as that is, it is often given to massive distortions or over simplifications. People think they’re preaching the Gospel to you when they tell you, 'you can have a purpose to your life', or that 'you can have meaning to your life', or that 'you can have a personal relationship with Jesus.' All of those things are true, and they’re all important, but they don’t get to the heart of the Gospel.

The Gospel is called the 'good news' because it addresses the most serious problem that you and I have as human beings, and that problem is simply this: God is holy and He is just, and I’m not. And at the end of my life, I’m going to stand before a just and holy God, and I’ll be judged. And I’ll be judged either on the basis of my own righteousness – or lack of it – or the righteousness of another. The good news of the Gospel is that Jesus lived a life of perfect righteousness, of perfect obedience to God, not for His own well being but for His people. He has done for me what I couldn’t possibly do for myself. But not only has He lived that life of perfect obedience, He offered Himself as a perfect sacrifice to satisfy the justice and the righteousness of God.

The great misconception in our day is this: that God isn’t concerned to protect His own integrity. He’s a kind of wishy-washy deity, who just waves a wand of forgiveness over everybody. No. For God to forgive you is a very costly matter. It cost the sacrifice of His own Son. So valuable was that sacrifice that God pronounced it valuable by raising Him from the dead – so that Christ died for us, He was raised for our justification. So the Gospel is something objective. It is the message of who Jesus is and what He did. And it also has a subjective dimension. How are the benefits of Jesus subjectively appropriated to us? How do I get it? The Bible makes it clear that we are justified not by our works, not by our efforts, not by our deeds, but by faith – and by faith alone. The only way you can receive the benefit of Christ’s life and death is by putting your trust in Him – and in Him alone. You do that, you’re declared just by God, you’re adopted into His family, you’re forgiven of all of your sins, and you have begun your pilgrimage for eternity."

— R.C. Sproul
 

MaddLlama

Obstructor of justice
Hello Mr Scuba Pete,

Proclaiming a gospel of love without condemnation from the law is a false gospel. It is a false gospel that the world wants to embrace. Please read "The Gospel by RC Sproul". God demonstrated His love for us (believers), in that while we were still SINNERS, Christ died for us. Why did Jesus Christ have to die? Because we are condemned guilty sinners under the wrath of God. - SR


Preaching the gospel of condemnation without love is also a false gospel.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
I think I'll stick to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, rather than the Gospel of RC Sproul. You see, for a self proclaimed sola scripturist, you never seem to use scriptures to support your views. How is it, that I, someone who believes that we need MORE than scripture (namely the Holy Spirit) to understand God's will, is constantly providing scripture after scripture to show myself as a worker approved by God and not by RC Sproul (or you).

Romans 5:6 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.-NIV

You see, this is FURTHER evidence of the Gospel of LOVE. How can you ever think of pulling Love out of the Gospel? It just can't be done! What's more, YOU CAN NOT SEPARATE ME FROM THE LOVE OF CHRIST! AMEN!

Romans 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36 As it is written:
"For your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered." 37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
-NIV

To paraphrase a scripture: "Love is foolishness to those who are perishing". If the shoe fits: wear it!
 
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