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The Mess In Modern Cosmology

Native

Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
You take your ideas in your mind as real independent of your mind and claim it is a fact. I just doubt that and get another result.
WHAT??? What kind of a rubbish and circular reversed argument this is! Your hilarious and illogical strawman is wrong again!
Of course and logically my mind is dependent of my mind - and my mind is - opposite yours - dependent of what I observe around me in the terrestrial natural world and it´s celestial surroundings.
 

Native

Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
No, I have faith that objective reality is epistemologically fair, but I am not a naturalist. And I am not a metaphysical solipsist.
Whatever. I´m tired and bored to discuss more of your intellectual philosophical emptyness.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
WHAT??? What kind of a rubbish and circular reversed argument this is! Your hilarious and illogical strawman is wrong again!
Of course and logically my mind is dependent of my mind - and my mind is - opposite yours - dependent of what I observe around me in the terrestrial natural world and it´s celestial surroundings.

Well, read some Rene Descartes as the Evil Demon, if you want to play philosophy.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
This is unscientific nonsense.

I had written, "That's what science does. It observes phenomena and develops narratives that account for them to predict future phenomena. The stability of galaxies could not be explained by the existing physics, so new physics was called for." Disagree. As I said, that is a description of what science is and does. If you disagree, you should be able to provide a reason that explains why my comment is incorrect. Explain which part of the comment cannot be correct. Is it the science observes phenomena part that you think doesn't happen? Is it the idea that science develops narratives to account for observed phenomena that you consider nonsense?

It´s simply intellectually adding something to the Universe which isn´t there, cannot be found and newer will be either.

It's an attempt to account for an observed phenomenon not explainable with the physics. Once again, that's what science does. Its gravitational effect has already been found. Other effects may be difficult to discern if it doesn't generate any electromagnetic waves. Perhaps gravitational waves from dark matter can be detected by LIGO and/or LISA. Or perhaps some theoretical or observational data will suggest a new particle. Or perhaps it will remain a mystery indefinitely. That's sceicne, too.

If motions in the observable Universe don´t follow the human invented laws, it´s logically the human laws themeselves which are wrong and need to be seriously revised..

The laws of motion work fine elsewhere, and so don't need revision. What was needed was a new substance capable of generating gravity but not electromagnetic radiation. Only matter is known to generate or respond to gravity, hence it behaves like visible matter, but is dark.

Galaxies can have either an attractive or repulsive motion

Galaxies don't repulse. They are dominated by gravity, which attracts only.

either the stars are moving into the center or away from its center, as with the case with our Milky Way galaxy.

Our star has orbited galactic center since its birth. It's orbit undulates perpendicular to the plane of the galaxy, but our star orbits our galaxy's central supermassive black hole the way its planets orbit it. Planets do occasionally wander closer and further from the sun, but not regularly. They say Jupiter visited the inner solar system for a while, put repulsive forces were not involved, just collisions and gravity. From Jupiter, Destroyer of Worlds, May Have Paved the Way for Earth - Scientific American :

"One example is the “grand tack” scenario, which posits that in the first few million years of our solar system’s existence Jupiter migrated into and then back out of the inner solar system, following a course similar to a sailboat’s when it tacks around a buoy. Back then Jupiter would have still been embedded in a gas-rich disk. Much of that gas was spiraling down toward the sun—so much that the action would have sapped some of Jupiter’s angular momentum, too, causing the giant planet itself to spiral in to the vicinity of where Mars is today. Jupiter would have kept falling in toward the sun if not for being caught by the subsequent formation of Saturn, which began drifting in as well. As the two giant planets came closer together, they were caught in an orbital resonance."

Supernovas don´t explode, but they frequently discharges electromagnetic emissions, naturally and just like our Sun.

Supernovae do explode, and discharge matter as well as radiation. The explosions cause concussion waves in distant nebulae, seeding them with heavy elements and causing them to collapse into solar systems.

We're not really making any more progress here on your claim of modern cosmology being a mess. You haven't demonstrated a mess, just a frustration of your own. I don't see a mess, and cosmologists apparently consider their science to be making progress, seem excited about tackling its current problems, and don't report a mess, either.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Try lifting your head up occasionally
Must you force the issue?
I use self deprecation to be diplomatic.
When I read poorly worded irrational posts, I'd
rather avoid expressing disdain for lesser folk.

Please allow me to try curbing my
being the biggest jerk on RF, eh.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Must you force the issue?
I use self deprecation to be diplomatic.
When I read poorly worded irrational posts,
I'd rather avoid making it about disdain for
lesser brain power.

Allow my efforts to try curbing my being
the biggest jerk on RF, eh.

Evidence as rational that it is lesser brain power. Use your in the end science and meet the burden of proof.
 

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
Must you force the issue?
I use self deprecation to be diplomatic.
When I read poorly worded irrational posts, I'd
rather avoid expressing disdain for lesser folk.

Please allow me to try curbing my
being the biggest jerk on RF, eh.


This is as good a place as any in which to be a jerk, I see no reason why you should curb that tendency. Look around you, no one else is doing much curbing.
 

Native

Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
Well, read some Rene Descartes as the Evil Demon, if you want to play philosophy.
Philosophy isn´t a play to me as it is to you.
Evidence for the real natural world that it is empty.
Speaking of emptyness: In my most honest strawman opinion, your mind and soul screams of being meaningfully filled up - but your academic speculative intellect is in the way of such a fulfilment.

You´re discussing theories of theories and it´s SO BORING.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Philosophy isn´t a play to me as it is to you.

Speaking of emptyness: In my most honest strawman opinion, your mind and soul screams of being meaningfully filled up - but your academic speculative intellect is in the way of such a fulfilment.

You´re discussing theories of theories and it´s SO BORING.

Interesting how you want all caps on something subjective. And how you rate my life based on your subjective meaning.
 

Native

Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
I had written, "That's what science does. It observes phenomena and develops narratives that account for them to predict future phenomena. The stability of galaxies could not be explained by the existing physics, so new physics was called for." Disagree. As I said, that is a description of what science is and does. If you disagree, you should be able to provide a reason that explains why my comment is incorrect. Explain which part of the comment cannot be correct. Is it the science observes phenomena part that you think doesn't happen? Is it the idea that science develops narratives to account for observed phenomena that you consider nonsense?

It's an attempt to account for an observed phenomenon not explainable with the physics. Once again, that's what science does. Its gravitational effect has already been found. Other effects may be difficult to discern if it doesn't generate any electromagnetic waves. Perhaps gravitational waves from dark matter can be detected by LIGO and/or LISA. Or perhaps some theoretical or observational data will suggest a new particle. Or perhaps it will remain a mystery indefinitely. That's sceicne, too.

The laws of motion work fine elsewhere, and so don't need revision. What was needed was a new substance capable of generating gravity but not electromagnetic radiation. Only matter is known to generate or respond to gravity, hence it behaves like visible matter, but is dark.

Galaxies don't repulse. They are dominated by gravity, which attracts only.

Our star has orbited galactic center since its birth. It's orbit undulates perpendicular to the plane of the galaxy, but our star orbits our galaxy's central supermassive black hole the way its planets orbit it. Planets do occasionally wander closer and further from the sun, but not regularly. They say Jupiter visited the inner solar system for a while, put repulsive forces were not involved, just collisions and gravity. From Jupiter, Destroyer of Worlds, May Have Paved the Way for Earth - Scientific American :

"One example is the “grand tack” scenario, which posits that in the first few million years of our solar system’s existence Jupiter migrated into and then back out of the inner solar system, following a course similar to a sailboat’s when it tacks around a buoy. Back then Jupiter would have still been embedded in a gas-rich disk. Much of that gas was spiraling down toward the sun—so much that the action would have sapped some of Jupiter’s angular momentum, too, causing the giant planet itself to spiral in to the vicinity of where Mars is today. Jupiter would have kept falling in toward the sun if not for being caught by the subsequent formation of Saturn, which began drifting in as well. As the two giant planets came closer together, they were caught in an orbital resonance."

Supernovae do explode, and discharge matter as well as radiation. The explosions cause concussion waves in distant nebulae, seeding them with heavy elements and causing them to collapse into solar systems.

We're not really making any more progress here on your claim of modern cosmology being a mess. You haven't demonstrated a mess, just a frustration of your own. I don't see a mess, and cosmologists apparently consider their science to be making progress, seem excited about tackling its current problems, and don't report a mess, either.
Obviously you don´t ponder the least over and take in given explanations and arguments but still you demand more explanations.

If you are allergic for the explanations in #50 Native, Today at 12:18 PM - and keep on parroting and reciting the cosmological mess, I think we´re done for now.
You haven't demonstrated a mess, just a frustration of your own.
Give me a brake will you? It isn´t me who have investigated my identity in the standing cosmological mess, so I have no reason to be frustrated at all.
 

Native

Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
Speaking of emptyness: In my most honest strawman opinion, your mind and soul screams of being meaningfully filled up - but your academic speculative intellect is in the way of such a fulfilment.
You to me:
Interesting how you want all caps on something subjective.
And you to Revoltingest:
No, I have managed to live with 3 psychiatric disorders. I might even learn something, that is of use to me.
I´m sorry for that and hope you learn something and then I rest my case.
 
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