YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
An interesting note is that Jesus said (Matthew 5:17): "Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfil."
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"THE LORD'S DAY IS THE SABBATH DAY NOT SUNDAY ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURES
- Thread starter 3rdAngel
- Start date
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Good point. Many either twist this and pretend it means something else of ignore it.
MJ Bailey
Member
I really enjoyed reading your post. I have talked to people from certain religions who say the reason for Sunday being considered a day of reverence is due to the Lord after creating the earth rested on the seventh day. I questioned why not Saturday instead of Sunday (which of course there are certain religions who use this day as a day of worship) and was gifted with two interesting answers; the day of worship was already established before the Gregorian calendar was used and the other answer was due to Sunday being the last day of the weekend (and are the only days that share the same beginning letter) it would be considered more appropriate.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
I personally do not believe that Jesus "fulfilled the law". However, what I do feel is that he taught his believe in consolidating the 613 Commandments as found in Torah into his Two Commandments.
No one can keep the 613 misfits. They would be put in jail if they even tried.
Mark 10:
18 And Jesus said to him, Why callest thou me good? None is good but one, that is God.
19 Thou knowest the commandments: Do not commit adultery, do not kill, do not steal, bear not false witness, do no fraud, honour thy father and mother.
I see 6 commandments of the 10 They are as solid now as they were in torah and the book of ma'at.
Jesus did not fulfill prophecy but was pretty solid on matters of personal responsibility. What i find jesus was good at is He did not require a central authority to tell him how to think.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Shabbat ran and runs from Friday evening sundown to Saturday evening sundown. The early church observed both Shabbat and met for the "Agape Meal", the latter of which was and is on Sunday. Since the church quickly became overwhelmingly Gentile, and since the Law of Moses only applies to Jews, Shabbat was dropped and Sunday became the main observance for most Christians.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Hey MJ nice to meet you. The Gregorian Calendar was made well after the Sabbath. The bible Sabbath from creation in Genesis 2:1-3 and commanded as one of Gods commandments in Exodus 20:8-11 and that Jesus says was made for all mankind, is the seventh day of the creation week that is in our time today according to the bible, starts at sunset Friday and finishes on sunset Saturday. There is not a single scripture in all of the bible from Genesis to Revelation that teaches that Gods Sabbath commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. This is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from God and His Word against the very warnings of Jesus in Matthew 15:2-9.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
According to the scriptures, after the death of Jesus, the early Church which was mostly Jews met together every day of the week breaking bread together (see Acts 2:46-47) and as it was Jesus custom to keep the Sabbath all the disciples and Apostles continued keeping the Sabbath of Gods 4th commandment as well as all of Gods other commandments which is Gods standard of Christian living. It was the early Roman Catholic Church centuries later through civil union of state and Emperor Constantine that began the tradition of Sunday worship. That said it can be shown in the historical records that all through time from Gods people in the old testament, Jesus and the disciples and Apostles in the new testament and Christs disciples all through time that God has always had a people that have continued to obey Him and keep His commandments and will do so even before the 2nd coming. The statement you made that the Sabbath only applies to the Jews is a lie and unsupported in the bible. Unlike the law of Moses written in the book of the covenant by Moses (Exodus 24:7), every one of Gods 10 commandments are repeated in the new covenant as the standard of Christian living and breaking anyone of them according to James is sin (1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11).
Was jesus a cook at Chompie's. One of the Borenstein family perhaps? They make the best bread and a menu, that you could eat there all year and never eat the same dish.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
False on two counts:
-the church wasn't called "Roman Catholic Church" until the Great Schism centuries later, and...
-the gradual change to mainly a Sunday worship occurred mostly in the 2nd century as we read in the Didache.
Also, are you Jewish? If not, they you are not under the Mosiac Commandments but under Jesus' Two Commandments. Shabbat observance is only mandatory for Jews, and they cover several does and don't, such as not building a fire and or to cook, not traveling from village to village, no reaping, etc.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Your response here...
Look lets not make false statements like you are doing here. Its just a distraction. Lets talk detail. There was no false accounts in my last post to you. The Roman Universal (Catholic) Church is the Roman Catholic Church. It was the Church that came out of Rome. Being Jewish has nothing to do with keeping anyone of Gods 10 commandments. The Sabbath according to Jesus was made for all mankind (see Mark 2:27). There was no Jews, no Israel, no Moses, no law and no sin when God made the Sabbath for all mankind and blessed the seventh day as a holy day of rest in Genesis 2:1-3. There was only Adam and Eve the parents of all mankind who were made on the sixth day of the creation week (see Genesis 1:26-31). You do err not knowing the scriptures. Jesus in Matthew 22:36-40 when quoting the two great commandments of love to God and man is quoting from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18. These were simply summing up how to obey the law and the prophets (see Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12). No one is loving God or neighbor by breaking Gods commandments. The OP is asking where is the scripture that says Sunday or the first day of the week is "the Lords day" of Revelation 1:10? - There is none. This is a man-made teaching and lie started by the Roman Catholic Church..
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Great questions.
Matthew 5:17-28
17, Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
18, For truly I say to you, Till heaven and earth pass, one stroke or one pronunciation mark shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19, Whoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20, For I say to you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
21, You have heard that it was said of them of old time, You shall not kill; and whoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22, But I say to you, That whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whoever shall say, You fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
23, Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has ought against you;
24, Leave there your gift before the altar, and go your way; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.
25, Agree with your adversary quickly, whiles you are in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver you to the judge, and the judge deliver you to the officer, and you be cast into prison.
26, Truly I say to you, You shall by no means come out there, till you have paid the uttermost farthing.
27, You have heard that it was said by them of old time, You shall not commit adultery:
28, But I say to you, That whoever looks on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart.
I believe reading the scripture context is very important here and if you have some understanding of the old covenant laws of atonement as well as Gods 10 commandments there is actually two ways Jesus fulfills the law without destroying the laws requirements as stated in Matthew 5:17.
The Greek word used here in Matthew 5:17 πληρόω (G4137) translated "fulfill" in English means to complete or to accomplish, to perform and to execute or do or to accomplish.
So the context in Matthew 5:17 Jesus is saying to us "Do not even think that I have come to destroy or abolish the law or the prophets. That is do not even let that enter into your mind before I tell you anything else. He tells us the law is not destroyed or abolished but the reason why Jesus has come was to perfectly obey the law to complete and perform Gods law! The next question is how did Jesus complete, obey, perform Gods law? I believe that the scriptures are very clear and believe that there are two applications here.
The first application here to Jesus saying He fulfilled the law is in Jesus perfectly obeying the righteous requirement of Gods law including Gods 10 commandments. Jesus perfectly kept and obeyed Gods law and was sinless before God and man. Application here as also shown in the context of Matthew 5:17-28 is applying to Gods 10 commandments with the examples of right doing must exceed that of the Scribes and Pharisees and Jesus later giving the examples of thou shalt not kill and thou shalt not commit adultery in Matthew 5:21 and Matthew 5:28. Jesus perfectly obeyed Gods law from the inside out making Him qualified to be Gods perfect sacrifice for our sins.
The second application to "fulfill" here is that Jesus fulfilled all the law and the prophets that foretold of His coming all the Mosaic shadow laws of atonement and all the prophets that were pointing to Jesus as Gods promised Messiah and Gods sacrifice for the sins of the world under a new covenant based on better promises are fulfilled in Christ to who these Mosaic laws of atonement were all teaching and pointed to are not fulfilled in Jesus. It was Gods Mosiac laws and the prophets that pointed to Jesus as Gods promised Messiah. All these laws of atonement and sin offerings are now fulfilled and continued in Jesus to who they all pointed to (see Hebrews 7:1-12; Hebrews 8:1-13; Hebrews 9:1-27 and Hebrews 10:1-22).
That said everyone of Gods 10 commandments are repeated in the new covenant as the standard for Christian living. This of course includes Gods Sabbath commandments which is one of Gods 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken (1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11).
Take Care.
wellwisher
Well-Known Member
The story of Genesis has God creating the heavens and earth in six days and resting on the seventh. If we follow the current seven day calendar, if Saturday was the seventh day; day of rest, the first day of Creation would have been on Sunday. The eighth day or the next Sunday after the Sabbath, would start a new cycle of creation; new week. The change from Saturday to Sunday meant the Sabbath rest was over and God was back to work doing something new and creative again. It may have a connection to Jesus needing to go to the Father, so they could leave behind the Comforter or the Spirit of Truth. Once the works of the spirit are compiled this will be the third book of the Bible; trinity.
The weeks of the month and year repeat; Sunday to Saturday, then Sunday and a new weeks, etc. But instead of a circle is it more like a helix that would look like a circle is if we looked down the z-axis of the helix and ignore the z=time axis. Christianity saw a new cycle of creation about to begin where knowledge of good and evil; law, which was forbidden by God in Eden is not longer needed, since truth and life reign. Law was not made for the righteous man; truth but for the sinners; con artists. As long as there is law there are sinners. Perpetuating law perpetuates sin.
Many do not seem to grasp that the tree of knowledge of good and evil; law is connected to Satan not God. God never wanted Adam and Eve to use law. By doing so, they were expelled from paradise because law is a second tier. Law was not creates for the righteous man but for the sinners. Adam and Eve would have been better off with the tree of life. Jesus is often referred to as the second Adam, with a second choice to choose life over law.
The weeks of the month and year repeat; Sunday to Saturday, then Sunday and a new weeks, etc. But instead of a circle is it more like a helix that would look like a circle is if we looked down the z-axis of the helix and ignore the z=time axis. Christianity saw a new cycle of creation about to begin where knowledge of good and evil; law, which was forbidden by God in Eden is not longer needed, since truth and life reign. Law was not made for the righteous man; truth but for the sinners; con artists. As long as there is law there are sinners. Perpetuating law perpetuates sin.
Many do not seem to grasp that the tree of knowledge of good and evil; law is connected to Satan not God. God never wanted Adam and Eve to use law. By doing so, they were expelled from paradise because law is a second tier. Law was not creates for the righteous man but for the sinners. Adam and Eve would have been better off with the tree of life. Jesus is often referred to as the second Adam, with a second choice to choose life over law.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Your post here is just simply disturbing. Did you have anything to contribute to the OP or to the post and scriptures you are quoting from? I am guessing not.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Your post is both false and, frankly, quite dishonest. You simply keep spouting the same nonsense over and over again even when provided clear evidence that you were wrong. You don't understand enough about early Judaism to understand the significance of Jesus' teachings and early church history.
Just as an example, here's when "Roman" was added to the church, which I mentioned before:
The term "Roman Catholic" was first used as a synonym for "Catholic Church" in 1208, after the split between the Eastern and Western churches1. However, the official beginning of the Roman Catholic church as a distinct entity with political power was in 590 CE, with Pope Gregory I, who consolidated the lands under the pope's authority into the Papal States2. The last official document to use "Roman Catholic Church" was issued by Pope Pius XII in 19501...-- History of the Catholic Church - Wikipedia
Sorry to say, this is out last conversation.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Christianity saw no such thing. Neither is your teachings of lawlessness here demonstrated anywhere in the bible.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Well its up to you. You can run away if you like. Lets show why what you posted above does not support what you say. You post a link above to try and support a claim that the Roman Catholic Church did not exist in 1208CE? Then claim that the official beginning started in 590CE. That is being very dishonest. Now why do I say that? I say that because the link you posted does not say that the Roman Catholic Church started in 1208 or 590CE. If you read what you linked it is talking about the name and term or name "Roman Catholic Church". That does not mean that the Roman Catholic Church started in 1208 or 590CE but that was the name in used for this Church in 1208CE. Also note: likewise the term "official" does not mean that the Roman Church did not exist before 590CE. We have biblical evidence of the Church existing in Acts and the book of Romans. So what did you post that supports anything you have said so far? -Nothing. Receive Gods correction and be blessed. Ignoring it does not make it disappear. According to Jesus the words of God we accept or reject become our judge come judgement day - John 12:47-48. I have only told you the truth. It seems you did not like it. Funny how people want to run away when challenged to look at the truth in detail. It is you who is being dishonest here and it is you that is promoting nonsense but let me prove why to you in the very post and link you provide here.
Take Care.
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My response was about: "According to the scriptures, after the death of Jesus, the early Church which was mostly Jews met together every day of the week breaking bread together (see Acts 2:46-47) and as it was Jesus custom to keep the Sabbath all the disciples and Apostles continued keeping the Sabbath of Gods 4th commandment as well as all of Gods other commandments which is Gods standard of Christian living."
But it's not the OP.
I was just re-adjusting the standards based on those lines.
Is this a DIR topic?
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
I would consider it a part of the OP...the comment was made by another poster that Sunday was kept by the Apostles trying to argue in support of "the Lords day" I think it is relevant as the scriptures show that after the death and resurrection of Jesus the early disciples and Apostles met every day of the week but that did not make every day of the week a holy day of rest in replacement of Gods seventh day Sabbath and neither did it make it "the Lords day" The bible just shows Gods people continuing to keep the Sabbath according to the commandment.