The irony in the Baha'i faith

[Jim]

So I wonder if you misconstrue my intent and interest with being on this forum?

Maybe so. From the titles of your threads, sometimes it has felt to me like trying to promote your beliefs without appearing to do so. A while ago I was thinking that maybe that isn’t really what’s happening. I was trying to find out what you think about that, and I still don’t know.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yeah, thanks, Tony. Just had my lunch.

 

[Jim]

That is full of thoughts Jim, so many tangents.

Personally I will not go beyond the thought there is only one Baha'i Faith and it would not be of my heart to present it any other way, regardless as to what any individual in the Faith may do or say, either rightly or wrongly.

That Faith is a diversity of all people of all races and religious backgrounds, that have accepted Baha'u'llah as a Messenger for this Day, recognize the Covenant given through Abdul'Baha, then Shoghi Effendi and on to the Universal House of Justice. It also includes others that are not strong in that covenant and others that have a material uncertainty, on subjects they see given in the teachings. When we put all that together, consider in its mix there a few that have a deep understanding of the Faith, there a few that have a sound grasp of the Faith and put that together with a multitude still finding a way, then the Diversity becomes a logical consequence.

So from there?

I tried many responses, but I have deleted them all, not sure how to respond as yet.

I will add that I see very few Baha'is Jim and it has been that way for many years after my wife and I moved very remote. Conversations on and in Faith are hard to find, going to Church here while remaining silent, has proved difficult.

Regards Tony

Thank you, Tony. There might not be any more that I would need or want to say for now. If there’s any more that you would like to say, I’ll be glad to see it.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yeah, thanks, Tony. Just had my lunch.

I am off to bed, now 9pm, I do not do the Gregorian New Year.

Stay well and happy and if you do, have a great new year. I do suspect you have a different new year as well.

Regards Tony

 

[Dawnofhope]

Maybe so. From the titles of your threads, sometimes it has felt to me like trying to promote your beliefs without appearing to do so. A while ago I was thinking that maybe that isn’t really what’s happening. I was trying to find out what you think about that, and I still don’t know.

I’m a Baha’i so of course that’s an important part of who I am. I’m interested when someone who isn’t a Baha’i starts a thread about the Baha’i Faith. There have been two such threads recently which I’ve participated in. This is one of them. Ive been particularly interesting to talk to George-ananda, Aupmanyav and yourself.

My interests have evolved and changed since I started posting here about 3 years ago reflecting my life has changed. Becoming a moderator has changed my relationship with this forum and can sometimes be time consuming. But its service so rewarding.

Perhaps most importantly I’m a human like everyone else with a busy and demanding life. I’m an ordinary guy getting on with life. The best description of my interest in RF is to learn, have civil discourse as been happening on this thread for the most part, and when appropriate to share what I’ve learnt. I don’t see myself as angling for a discussion about the Baha’i Faith at every possible moment.

 

[Dawnofhope]

We’ve just seen in the New Year in NZ. Happy New Year everyone.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I like to take the day of vernal equinox as the new year because I identify with the Indian Aryans, who had this. But even the Hindus have moved away from it. March 25th in 2020. Quite close this year (Vernal Equinox on March 20). But it is not always like this. We have a Luni-Solar religious calendar (Vikram Samvat) and the dates are not constant as by Gregorian calendar. That is not the only kind of calendar with us, we have many.

 

[Jim]

I’m a Baha’i so of course that’s an important part of who I am. I’m interested when someone who isn’t a Baha’i starts a thread about the Baha’i Faith. There have been two such threads recently which I’ve participated in. This is one of them. Ive been particularly interesting to talk to George-ananda, Aupmanyav and yourself.

My interests have evolved and changed since I started posting here about 3 years ago reflecting my life has changed. Becoming a moderator has changed my relationship with this forum and can sometimes be time consuming. But its service so rewarding.

Perhaps most importantly I’m a human like everyone else with a busy and demanding life. I’m an ordinary guy getting on with life. The best description of my interest in RF is to learn, have civil discourse as been happening on this thread for the most part, and when appropriate to share what I’ve learnt. I don’t see myself as angling for a discussion about the Baha’i Faith at every possible moment.

That answers my question. Thank you.

 

[Vinayaka]

Unfortunately, that is how it comes off sounding. Maybe how you work with people in the interfaith groups could help with how we all deal with each other here? I would imagine that you have to find the things you have common and work from there. Here, the differences take the forefront.

I always imagine interfaith groups to not discuss religion that much. I have very little experience with it though.

 

[Vinayaka]

That sounds good to me. So do we value the beliefs of the Hindus, Buddhists and others here? Do we even know what those beliefs are?

Not much. Words and action don't mix. Several times I've been told that questions about my faith were soon to come. With one exception, it hasn't happened yet. Not that I'd answer anyway, but still. Information transfer in this long discussion has been about 95% - 5% in one direction only.

 

[Vinayaka]

I am not being critical of how the forum is run in the slightest. The point is our relationships and interactions are very different from a neighbour community, family or workplace. I’m not actually saying one is better than the other either. It is a different approach to community and sharing interests.

In addition, it's a skewed sampling of people. Most people don't have the time nor desire to visit internet forums.

 

[Jim]

Your impression of the Baha’i Faith has some substance. We do indeed see other religions as coming from God, being initially right, then changing with time as scriptures were interpreted and new things added on.

This Baha’i believe some religions were neither wrong nor different. They were from God and in their original form as God intended it. What their Founders taught was remembered and eventually recorded. Sometimes things were added on and interpretations made. This was a necessary part of the progression within a religion. Then religion had to adapt to different cultures. In time some Teachings were no longer as important or relevant while others were universal and necessary for any time and culture. Sometimes religion was distorted or corrupted as religious and political leaders misused religion. There is a great deal more that could be said. So for this Baha’i calling other religions wrong or different makes no sense. However if Hindus and Christians wish to label other religions different or wrong then I accept different points of view. I just don’t agree with such an approach. I doubt if any Baha’i who has taken the time to learn about other faiths would agree either.

I’ll try to explain what I see that looks to me like possibly something that other people are objecting to sometimes. I see some people promoting some beliefs that they call “the Baha’i Faith.” Sometimes there are some differences between them in what they say, but they all say that there is only one Baha’i Faith and they don’t seem to ever openly disagree with each other, so it’s natural to think of everything that all of them are saying, along with what Baha’i scriptures say, as what they all believe.

I see some of them saying that all religions are one, which might sometimes be understood as saying that Baha’is do not elevate their religion above the others. I think that I’ve seen at least one of them actually saying that explicitly. I don’t remember any of them openly disagreeing with that. At the same time, I see some of them saying that all beliefs contrary to theirs are false, and none of them openly disagreeing with that. I also see their scriptures saying that they update and replace all previous ones. It’s hard for me imagine that they really, honestly think that they aren’t elevating their religion above all others. I can understand the temptation to think that those people might be fooling themselves and/or trying to fool others.

 

[oldbadger]

We’ve just seen in the New Year in NZ. Happy New Year everyone.

And Happy New Year to you....
It's 1400 hrs GMT here and still 10 hours to go.

 

[CG Didymus]

I always imagine interfaith groups to not discuss religion that much. I have very little experience with it though.

When I was with my Baha'i friends, they did go to interfaith meetings. The Christians and Jews that were there were all from very liberal sides of their religions. Strict doctrinal beliefs weren't going to get in the way of getting along with the other people in the other religions. Even my friends weren't "Fundamentalist" Baha'is. They too were on the liberal side of the Baha'i Faith.

 

[CG Didymus]

I’ll try to explain what I see that looks to me like possibly something that other people are objecting to sometimes. I see some people promoting some beliefs that they call “the Baha’i Faith.”

"Promoting"... that's a good word for it. Nobody likes "proselytizing". The other word I hear a lot is "intent". There is no "intent" to convert, therefore it is not "proselytizing". But what is the "intent" of "promoting"? Baha'is can deny it all they want, but it comes off as saying that the Baha'is are right and the other religion is wrong.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I like to take the day of vernal equinox as the new year because I identify with the Indian Aryans, who had this. But even the Hindus have moved away from it. March 25th in 2020. Quite close this year (Vernal Equinox on March 20). But it is not always like this. We have a Luni-Solar religious calendar (Vikram Samvat) and the dates are not constant as by Gregorian calendar. That is not the only kind of calendar with us, we have many.

I would have guessed with the diversity of Faiths practices by the Hindu, that there was a diversity in the calendars and new years. I also guess the celebration s are very colourful.

The vernal equinox is also the Baha'i New Year, which we have after we finish the 19 day fast.

Have a great day, Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

I would have guessed with the diversity of Faiths practices by the Hindu, that there was a diversity in the calendars and new years. I also guess the celebration s are very colourful.

There a few New Years in Hinduism, varying mostly on geography.

Indian New Year's days - Wikipedia

I celebrate Tamil New Year April 14.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

There a few New Years in Hinduism, varying mostly on geography.

Indian New Year's days - Wikipedia

I celebrate Tamil New Year April 14.

I spent 2 1/2 years on Penang Island Malaysia in the early to mid 60's and attended quite a few of the Hindu celebrations and Temples, we have many family photos much like this; (except ours show hooks and pins in the flesh)

They were also dangerous times. I went to school on a bus with armed guards. Many fond memories of Panang Island.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

I spent 2 1/2 years on Penang Island Malaysia in the early to mid 60's and attended quite a few of the Hindu celebrations and Temples, we have many family photos much like this; (except ours show hooks and pins in the flesh)

View attachment 35986

They were also dangerous times. I went to school on a bus with armed guards. Many fond memories of Panang Island.

Regards Tony

Why was Penang dangerous?

The festival in the picture is called Thai Pusam. Mainly a Tamil festival of South India.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Why was Penang dangerous?

The festival in the picture is called Thai Pusam. Mainly a Tamil festival of South India.

I was young so oblivious as to why, my guess was it was a build up to Vietnam. My Father was a radio technician working at the airforce base on the Malaysia mainland.

I have vivid memories of driving through the town after riots with tyres on the street burning and lots of damage to shop fronts.

It may have been due to recent independence when I read post independence at the following link, poverty was a result. I had a Kampung behind our house and every monsoon they would be living in waist deep water why we were high and dry.

History of Penang - Wikipedia

Regards Tony