The Injustice Proposed by the Belief System of Hell and the Tyrannical Cruelty of God

[Druidus]

First of all, don't get me wrong. I am not attacking any religion. I am merely stating my opinion.

It is my opinion that Hell is a cruel idea, and the creator of such a place would be cruel to create it. To magnify the cruelty, if such a creater were to punish, for eternity, mind you, people who disagreed with her, or did not even know of her, it would be simply tyrannical abuse of power. I could not worship a God who could punish beings for eternity because they disagreed with him, or commited a wrong doing towards him. Myself, no matter what a man has done to me, I could never punish him with torture for a day, a week, a month, a year, let alone eternity. Who is most merciful, then, in that regard, God, or me?

I cannot agree with such a God who would impose that torture. At least Satan did not eternally punish people, and if you look at it, even he was only punished for being of a different opinion than God. He gave knowledge to the people, much as Prometheus did for the Greeks, and for that was punished, for eternity (Though Prometheus escaped). If I had been present at a rebellion, and of a knowing state that God would create such a torture filled reality, I could not honourably side with him through the rebellion, and, even knowing he could not win, would be forced to side with Satan.

I cannot believe that such a place as Hell exists, for the aforementioned reasons. Hell does not exist for me. Why? Because I do not believe that such a degree of sadism could be found in any being. If Hell exists, and it is my destiny to go there for disagreeing with God, then I will go proudly, with my honour. I cannot side with a God who would create such torture.

Thus, I believe, that if Christianity, Judaism, and/or Islam is/are correct, Hell does not exist. Followers of said faiths, do you believe Hell exists? Do you believe I will go there? Do you believe it is just that people such as I, and many others on this board, will go there? It uneases me to think of it.

 

[Scuba Pete]

If heaven is the perfect presense of God, then hell is his perfect absense. You choose to be with God or without him. Being with God is far nicer than not being with God. I will stick with God.

 

[Vash]

It is my opinion that Hell is a cruel idea

I agree.

I seem to recall hearing that, in the case of the Christian God, there may be a second death...death of the spirit. Oblivion...in the Lake of Fire I think.

Of course, it depends on how you interprite it I suppose.

 

[Dinogrrl]

I believe in it. And I believe God created it by removing His presence. Yeah...that's about it.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

(This is completely off-topic, but I'm curious about your signature, ND! It's making me very interested!)

I think that if a person wants to believe in a Hell or a Heaven, then it is their right to do so. When I was a Christian, I lived in a constant fear of my own making (meaning others didn't try to tell me this) that I didn't quite love God with all my heart, and thus he would turn his back on me. Gradually, I came to believe that hell is simply the abscence of God. To someone who loves any god, not just the Judeo- Christian version, that is a profound thing to be faced with.

While I am no longer on that path, I think that believing in Hell is only as just or as injust as the believer makes it to be. And I'm not sure if any of our RF members believe in a tyrannical God, just as I'm sure most of them don't think we pagans believe in a Goddess or God that requires virgin sacrifices.

 

[Druidus]

If heaven is the perfect presense of God, then hell is his perfect absense. You choose to be with God or without him. Being with God is far nicer than not being with God. I will stick with God.

Hell is often described as a place of eternal torment. The fact that it is eternal is the worst. A person has 60-70-80 at most 100 odd years of life before he is "judged". If he is judged "guilty" he is sent to the worst prison ever. The guards torment you day and night, there is no possibility of escape, and never a possibility of parole, for all eternity, in a place where a second would feel like an eternity.

If I person does not see that as injust, I cannot understand that person's line of thinking. What about those that have never heard of Christianity, or those brought up a different religion? Are they to go to hell as well, for not knowing of God?

Remember, I'm only saying I don't believe that the Christian God created Hell; I don't believe it exists, even if Christianity is the one true religion. I believe Hell was an invention of man, to try to keep social order. It is, of course, within the rights of anyone to believe in it, but I will still profess why I don't.

 

[Christopher Krajewski]

Why all the gnosticism? I believe we insisted that God be in the world, or nothing else for so long.

Knowing in advance that we cannot be sure of a creator. We look, we look, and instead the cult assumes in advance that we won't know the answer. The reason: why is there evil?

 

[Scuba Pete]

God is love... if you choose God, then you choose love.

If you had the chance to choose love and choose hate instead, then I am sure your eternal torment would be great. But it's still your choice.

 

[oracle]

I agree.

I seem to recall hearing that, in the case of the Christian God, there may be a second death...death of the spirit. Oblivion...in the Lake of Fire I think.

Of course, it depends on how you interprite it I suppose.

If the second death means "death of the spirit", that is a complete interpolation and digression from the teaching that the spirit cannot die, is infinite and eternal. I dunno, but it seems that Isreal and many parts of the world during those times was heavily influenced by Zoroastrianism, and that is probably where the concept of heaven and hell comes from. I would assume that there originally were no teachings of heaven or hell, but the concept of the afterlife had changed due to other cultures and religious movements and their influence upon the world. I don't know, but creating a nice hot lava Jacuzzi doesn't make any sense.

 

[Druidus]

Do you think that I have chosen hate, NetDoc?

My religion believes that hate is one of the worst things in the world, and that part of a being's life must be getting over hate. If a person simply does not agree with some aspects of Christianity, have they chosen hate? It seems to me that if that is so, it is God who is guilty of hate, because he would torture for eternity those of differing opinion.

None of my Gods would do so, not even the Source, and I don't believe that your God would either.

 

[Mister Emu]

To be blunt I believe the lake of fire exists, and that if you do not accept Jesus Christ as the savior then that is where you will be headed.

 

[Circle_One]

What about those that have never heard of Christianity, or those brought up a different religion? Are they to go to hell as well, for not knowing of God?

Yep, they go to the first ring of Hell..according to Dante's Inferno. (Sorry, one of my favorite books)

 

[Dinogrrl]

people have been disagreeing on why God lets Hell exist since like...forever. Just look at how many different views of the Christian God alone there are, not to mention all the other religions.

I think that our human minds simply cannot comprehend most things about God at this point in our existance, which is why heaven and hell are such ahrd concepts to get our minds around. :} I mean, I have my own ideas, but most other people love to disagree with me .

 

[Jaymes]

I believe if there was a hell, it wouldn't be eternal. Just temporary punishment. You don't ground a kid for a year for spilling a glass of milk, and I'd hope the higher ups would have the sense to not punish someone for eternity over something as short as a life. On the other hand, I think heaven could be temporary, too. Screw up and you get a short trip to the time out corner, eh?

 

[oracle]

To be blunt I believe the lake of fire exists, and that if you do not accept Jesus Christ as the savior then that is where you will be headed.

So why would God need an expensive lava jacuzzi when he can just make people simply vanish?

 

[Mister Emu]

So why would God need an expensive lava jacuzzi when he can just make people or who ever simply vanish?

Don't know.

 

[oracle]

Don't know.

Maybe he likes to be original. After all you don't see to many people being thrown into a lava pit as judiciary punishment. You know, he could be more original, by forcing people to watch Different Strokes re-runs for an eternity.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

I just wanted to thank everyone for expressing their beliefs. Whether I believe in them or not, it helps me to get a better understanding of the person and where they are coming from.

*cheers everyone on*

And I'm glad we can do this in a civil manner, too !

 

[Druidus]

I agree Feathers.

Emu, wouldn't it be more merciful for God to merely make the "bad" soul non-existant, rather than tortured for eternity (No matter what good they have done). I just can't think of any instance where anyone could want to torture someone for eternity, even a supreme being...

Even that, I think, would be unjust, but at least it's better than an eternity of torture, with no chance of parole.

 

[No*s]

Like I've said in other threads on this subject. God is Hell.

I believe (and so does Orthdoxy) that the difference between Heaven and Hell is completely dependant on the individual. One person, due to who they are and what they have made themselves, will experience God as Heaven. The next will experience Him as Hell. God, though, simply is and He doesn't change His role in either case.

To use two examples, iron when placed in a fire gains the fires heat and becomes like it in that way. The iron survives the fire with no noticible harm and may even glow red. Wood, though, is consumed and destroyed. Our life here is one of making ourselves wood or iron, but no matter what the fire will always be the same.

On another, take a boy who hates his loving grandmother and she has him for three months in the boonies. For the boy, this will be torment, but it isn't because the Grandmother doesn't love him, but because the boy cannot receive that love. On the other hand, if the boy loved his grandmother, the time would be bliss. Love is not always gentle, nor is it always pleasant, but how we experience it is dependant entirely on us. God is love (well, that's the best metaphor we have), and a relentless love that will not be deterred till it brings us to it at that.

As such, I don't see Hell as a place, but as a state. We were granted freewill, and what we do with it is our business, but we make our own Hell or Heaven.