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The Hinge of History theory

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Mock Turtle, Sep 29, 2020.

  1. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Asinine, socialist-leaning, puerile filth
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    This is quite long but worth a read, as are some of the linked articles:

    Are we living at the 'hinge of history'?

    You might also argue that civilisation’s relative youth makes us particularly influential. We’re only 10,000 years or so into human history, and a case could be made that earlier generations have a greater ability to lock changes, values and motivations that persist for later generations. We might think of civilisation today as a child who must carry both formative traits and scars for the rest of their lives.

    This is my favourite - that religions could be said to be such - and holding us back. But then I would say that. :oops:

    Any thoughts?
     
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  2. MNoBody

    MNoBody Well-Known Member

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    Will have to give it a read, you do find interesting stuff.
    and I am of similar mind, since history certainly lifts the skirts of his story and reveal so much......man, a guy needs eye bleach.
     
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  3. bobhikes

    bobhikes Nowoligist
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    You do understand that religions originally supported sciences as a means to get closer to god and only made them heretical after they found things that didn't jibe with the religion. It could be said that without Religion science would never have come to exist. There was no interest for the King to figure out anything other than counting finances and other government tasks. As to the quote I like it but don't agree with it. People can change and scars can fade.
     
  4. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    After reading, well scanning actually, the linked piece I'm reminded of "end times" debates among believers of various religions whether it be the appearance of Kalki or the Second Coming of Christ.

    My personal vote is that we're in the middle of a 'hinge' period. Maybe I'll live long enough to get the response to my vote.
     
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  5. Tambourine

    Tambourine Well-Known Member

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    I think what we're rather seeing is the inability of traditional instituions - political, cultural, religious - to make sense of the things going on right now, and a failure to produce an overarching grand narrative to frame our lives and societies, like those that existed during the previous century (Marxism, liberalism, historical progress, traditionalism, and so on).

    Bereft of these simple ways of explaining the world, a lot of us struggle to solve he looming problems and crises, and so instead cling to old ideas from old times in the hopes that they will give us comfort and allow us to ignore the reality of the present.
     
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  6. The Hammer

    The Hammer Virtue, Piety, Study
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    "Written history."... Humanity and our history and story goes back at least a million+ years.

    Religion does not hold us back. Religion holds the lessons and virtues of our past Culture.

    Edit: I did not read your linked article.
     
  7. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    Interesting article, as are some of the linked articles.
     
  8. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    Is this where humanity becomes unhinged?
     
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  9. MNoBody

    MNoBody Well-Known Member

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    more like a revolving door that keeps smacking humanity around
     
  10. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    This is tangental, so I apologise, but something that crossed my mind when reading your post. I don't have an answer for it, as such, just a pondering.

    Do you think ideals are important due to the changes they can drive/prevent in society only, or do you think the ability of members within society to hold ideals is important, regardless of the change they drive/prevent?

    In short, is society healthier where people have strongly held ideological beliefs, regardless of the pragmatic impact of these?

    (Meh...sorry, it's hard to word what I mean. I don't really mean 'regardless', since the beliefs themselves impact at that point. I mean more putting aside their pragmatic impact, is society better with a higher level of ideological belief. Still clumsy, but perhaps you can get the kernel of what I'm asking)
     
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  11. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    A level of unhinged-ness is probably good. I'm more worried that we'll reach a point where hinges no longer exist.
     
  12. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    Hmm....take religion out of it, for a moment, since I'm not directing this at only religion.
    Our traditions, culture, and ability to carry such things forward can be both negative and positive, and probably has elements of both, right?

    When I was in PNG, there were some locals who believed in witchcraft and more specifically that eating their enemies would enable them to consume a degree of their power.
    It wasn't a common belief at all when I was there, but traditionally it had been.

    That would be an example of the virtues and lessons of past Culture holding a society back, I believe.
    In all traditions and cultures...(and religion, but like I said, this isn't about religion) the trick is to work out what has value, how it applies to a changing world, and not lose it in casting out the dross.

    IMHO.
     
  13. The Hammer

    The Hammer Virtue, Piety, Study
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    The lesson here is don't eat your enemies, lol. That's the lesson brought forward from this past story. But I understand the point you're making, and agree, I was merely being succinct, something I tend to do as I have a short attention span. :oops:
     
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  14. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Asinine, socialist-leaning, puerile filth
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    I think it is debatable that science, or knowledge in any area, would not have developed without religions, but I doubt we could have avoided religions, given our nature in general. Many things in science were produced more from curiosity than being directed.

    No argument that religions will have brought some good but if the bad comes along too, and which is harder to remove, then they might be seen as that which is more unhelpful than helpful. Will obviously vary with any particular religion though. I think the analogy of humanity as being like the progress of a human is reasonably valid. The problem is we would no doubt disagree on what might be a successful human or for any humanity.
     
  15. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Asinine, socialist-leaning, puerile filth
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    There is not much evidence, apart from some artefacts and cave art, telling us much about our previous existence beyond about 100,000 years probably, but the progress made in the last 10,000 years puts all the previous into perspective - where not a lot happened. And you really should read the article.
     
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  16. Tambourine

    Tambourine Well-Known Member

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    I don't have the time to respond to this in detail right now, but let me just say real quick that I don't personally think that the strength or weakness of conviction to an ideology is really at issue here. I'll get back to this when I have the time to go into more depth, because I think it is an interesting subject to discuss.
     
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