Staying on topic...
It seems there is a great deal of dogma attached to these ideas which is rather unknowable or not provable. (How is this LHP?)
Most things are unknowable, and it is a very LHP trait to accept this. Both the religious and scientific sides of philosophy believe that there is tons of stuff we can know with certainty, when the truth is faith is required pretty much anywhere. As the old thought experiment goes, can you even prove you're more than a brain in a vat?
What is the use of these systems other than to overly complicate some really easy to understand concepts and make them spooky-ookey?
Well first of all, I'm not sure what you're referring to as "easy to understand". The ideas that occultism present, especially the left hand path, are extremely complex in numerous ways. Take the above example of knowledge, which many will militantly fight against. Just from the perspective of psychology the ideas are extremely complicated. Further, the way that we understand the world around us is of massive importance. For some people, that "spooky" (though I don't see anything spooky about this" symbolism is extremely powerful, which is of central importance. If symbol X is more powerful than symbol Y, symbol X will should be used. How can you claim to be an occultist and not understand this?
I feel most groups of this vein are barking up a wrong tree or getting to myopic with a certain particular set of symbols they fancy, and lose touch with the important pieces of the LHP pie.... .
Uh, that is one of the central pieces of the lhp pie. The lhp magician does what works for them, irrelevant of socio-cultural limitations.
Largely, my understanding is irrelevant - I was asking about yours. I feel that you are deriving a lot from the corpse (or corpus) of Western Hermetics, but just tacking on the apotheosis bits. (Which are actually incompatible with such ideas) Thus, I am confused by the integration of Kabbalah by someone who doesn't believe in the basic reasons that system exists. There is no difference between the Thelema concept of The Great Work (or more accurately, Abramelin's) and exactly what you have described as Mercurial Consciousness. That was what was prompting the rest of my queries -- the Nikki Sixx bit was a joke. I thought it was obviously sarcastic or whatever, but whatever..
It's rather silly to think that Western Hermetics is nothing but a corpse, it still carries a ton of weight in the western esoteric tradition and will for decades. Why does there need to be a difference between Crowley's Great Work and Mercucian Consciousness, or any other such thing? They all try to describe the same complex idea, and each will be more beneficial than the other in the proper context.
I guess to me Autotheism/Apotheosis is wishful thinking and hubris at best. How do you know you are there and just not completely full of crap? I just presume the latter as soon as anyone starts talking about this.
You can know through scientific measurements. My personality tests yielded far different results before and after magic, the way I acted and thought changed in measurable ways, how I handled situations evolved, and so on. It's quite easy to tell if you are making actual progress, it's even easy to get external, objective feedback from people who are around you, even therapy perhaps. It's pretty closed minded and arrogant to simply assume someone interested in apotheosis is
full of crap. This is a schema in psychology, a little shortcut our brains take to function quickly and easily. Part of the lhp practice, this apotheosis, is to understand these schemas and control them, no quick and easy way for us. As I have said elsewhere, the RHP comes in many forms beside religion, and I like the comparison to the tale of Horus and Set. Horus is that order that permeates everything, from outer religion to your inner schemas, and Set is the isolate consciousness over coming that. And you think symbolism is pure aesthetics...
I've seen buzzword soup, holy books, silly titles, and whatever other nonsense and yea so I asked you about that stuff. You didn't answer you diverged. Enjoy your new cult. Cults are not LHP.
I've clearly answered all of your questions, where have I 'diverged' exactly?
No one is asking you to believe, to join, or to even sthese ideas. The fact that you have this anger towards things you obviously don't understand and/or feel threatened by speaks volumes about your character.
This is the problem with armchair occultism. The simple reading and such of occult theory does very little, you have to get out there and experience. One of the most common things I see is people try to spread their wings, fall, and give up, assuming that magic is all belief and nonsense.
@Mindmaster , I find it curious that you laugh at us for believing in traditions that have evolved for years, and basing our beliefs on the scientific study of magic, while telling us occultism to you is accomplishing mundane goals with the help of your imaginary friends.
