The gulf between us

[Desert Snake]

Atheism is not a religion. Theism is not a religion. Where did you get that?

I can't speak for all atheists since I only met one in person, everyone else is online.

I want to make this personal so I can understand why you have his view.

I was not raised religious
I was not raised in a religious household
I was not in a religious environment

If I were not in the hospital, I'm skating, swimming, and chatting with friends well into the third high school I attended.

I knew nothing about god (and never knew there was more than abrahamic beliefs that believed in god) until five years ago. Then, that wasn't even god, that was the spirit of jesus.

Let me ask,

Where is my faith?
Based on what I told you, what is my religion?
What are my tenants?
How does my morals (creative expression and equality, for example) are based on a non-existent being?

I know I can be illogical sometimes, but this post floored me. Remember, we're in the same boat.

The problem is that you can't tell me where my faith is, either, etc.

The argument is self refuting,.

What is my religion? Etc.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I haven't labeled anyone a savage. I am merely making claims and refuting other claims. If that is problematic for you then I guess I cannot understand.

I didn't say you said that.

You described how you see atheist compared to theist. I said that atheist say the same thing just the other way around. It's like watching a war and both sides (atheist and theist) say that your opponents are savages.

Whether you call it "[a] boat is a leaky wooden tub " or to the other "illogical claims not based on reason", doesn't matter. The context is the same.

I just shake my head.

 

[Corvus]

I just shake my head.

I am shaking mine right now.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The problem is that you can't tell me where my faith is, either, etc.

The argument is self refuting,.

What is my religion? Etc.

Why would I ask you what your religion is? Not all atheist care about theist religions nor do a lot of us care to ask you guys about proof of an existent deity.

If atheism is a religion, and I never came across any influences of god nor belief in one, what is my religion based on?

How are my values and morals based on something that does not exist?

 

[FearGod]

I am finding that I cannot communicate with theists here, the same pattern I have experienced elsewhere. We are simply so different that discussion is all but impossible. What am i doing wrong? Logic does not move these people, I have no other way of thinking. So we are at an impasse. How can I talk to these people in terms they will understand? It is frustrating because I wish to understand religious belief and religious people, if I am to judge religion and religious belief fairly and to treat religious believers less contemptuously and dismissively. As I have been tasked to do by RL persons.

Which logic?
that things may come to existence without any previous plan and design and that
nothingness can be the start of the universe, which logic you're talking about?

 

[Desert Snake]

Please show me other definitions of the word RELIGION that suggests Atheism is to be classified as a religion.

This is nonsense, "religion" has a broader definition, which atheism can be a religion, by that definition, and a more strict definition, which for example would mean that I don't have a religion.

So it's just obfuscation.

You worship at the altar of the non'-existant god, that's all. Still a religion, still a faith.
"A-theos' meaning without a god.

 

[Kemosloby]

Perhaps if you come to the realization that Mr. Spock was a fictional character your horizons will expand far enough to communicate with people who believe in God.

 

[Corvus]

Which logic?
that things may come to existence without any previous plan and design and that
nothingness can be the start of the universe, which logic you're talking about?

Your personal incredulity is not a valid argument. Plan and design appeal to your parochial mindset because it is familiar to your limited subjective experience. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Corvus]

Perhaps if you come to the realization that Mr. Spock was a fictional character your horizons will expand far enough to communicate with people who believe in God.

Is this an attempt at sarcasm?

 

[Corvus]

This is nonsense, "religion" has a broader definition, which atheism can be a religion, by that definition, and a more strict definition, which for example would mean that I don't have a religion.

So it's just obfuscation.

You worship at the altar of the non'-existant god, that's all. Still a religion, still a faith.
"A-theos'meaning without a god.

We done?

 

[Grandliseur]

I am finding that I cannot communicate with theists here, the same pattern I have experienced elsewhere. We are simply so different that discussion is all but impossible. What am i doing wrong? Logic does not move these people, I have no other way of thinking. So we are at an impasse. How can I talk to these people in terms they will understand? It is frustrating because I wish to understand religious belief and religious people, if I am to judge religion and religious belief fairly and to treat religious believers less contemptuously and dismissively. As I have been tasked to do by RL persons.

Good for you - that you realize that there really is no way to communicate between our groups. You guys have what we consider baseless faith, and you consider ours baseless. That is about all there is to say about it.

The rest is 'live and let live'. Go have a cold beer, perhaps even together over a nice chess game. Chess is one of the good remedies that may replace discussions when forced together.

 

[Corvus]

You guys have what we consider baseless faith,

Which is irrational. Not least because you can't ALL be RIGHT!. About your respective religions and numerous Gods. Why YOUR GOD?

So utterly alien to me..

We have faith in the SCIENTIFIC METHOD, which works well enough for people to post laughable inanity on here.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Perhaps if you come to the realization that Mr. Spock was a fictional character your horizons will expand far enough to communicate with people who believe in God.

That's messed up.

Even Spock wouldn't say such a thing; and, he enjoyed working with Captain Kirk even if he didn't admit it. He did cry in a couple of episodes. He is part human, you know.

 

[FearGod]

Your personal incredulity is not a valid argument. Plan and design appeal to your parochial mindset because it is familiar to your limited subjective experience. Nothing more, nothing less.

That isn't a scientific reply, keep logic away and just believe what you wanted to believe.

 

[Corvus]

That's messed up.

Even Spock wouldn't say such a thing; and, he enjoyed working with Captain Kirk even if he didn't admit it. He did cry in a couple of episodes. He is part human, you know.

I might sound like Spock, but then that would only be logical, wouldn't it? Since he is reputedly consistently logical.

 

[Corvus]

That isn't a scientific reply, keep logic away and just believe what you wanted to believe.

Thanks for your reply.

 

[bobhikes]

Why?

Have you seen any movies with AI for example 2001 a Space Odyssey. What stops you from killing another even though they are blocking life goals. What makes another life worth more than your's or at least equal in value. Not logic, logically your survival is of most important, unless the person, animal or thing can provide for your survival logically they are unnecessary. If you don't see this you are thinking with emotions. I would say none of us can separate logic and emotion completely and this is a good thing.

 

[bobhikes]

If it was utilitarian to do so, expedient to the greater good of the species, then I would understand the logic of it. Governments today have to make similar tough utilitarian hard decisions, such as with regard to welfare provision, though not usually so drastically as the example you use.

The problem is that AI is not human at all and without emotional connection to Humans may actually decide to kill off all humans or just keep the ones necessary as slaves.

 

[Corvus]

Have you seen any movies with AI for example 2001 a Space Odyssey. What stops you from killing another even though they are blocking life goals.

Legal sanctions, becoming a social pariah, destruction of career. etc

 

[Corvus]

The problem is that AI is not human at all and without emotional connection to Humans may actually decide to kill off all humans or just keep the ones necessary as slaves.

It would depend on it's core programming analogous to your core beliefs and evolved neurological determinations/tendencies/capacities, like empathy and compassion.

I would recommend hardwiring an AI with Asimov's three Laws of Robotics at least, and an off button that cannot be interrupted or deactivated.