The Growing Greatness of Muhammad (S+) In The Eyes of Much of The World

[InvestigateTruth]

Yes, I guess I'll make this series the last one. Couldn't help but rebut your blatant lies.

You seem quite frustrated. I was hoping to have a friendly discussion, rather than judging each other.

Read that verse again : "He it is Who sent His Messenger with guidance and the religion of truth, that He might cause it to prevail over all religions, though the polytheists may be averse."(Al Qur'an 9:33)

'God sent it so he can CAUSE it to prevail' (in FUTURE - over ALL Religions) - you probably need a lesson in English tense/grammar as well. Nowhere it says it is for religions before Islam. Once again you are free to add whatever you want to the Quranic words/interpretations - but it only reduces your credibility further. That's all.

Dear LoverofTruth,

Islam, the Word of God, is like a Good Tree, that gave its fruit in its own time.
As the Tree gets older, then It canot give fruits anymore. SO, it needs to be renewed again. This has been always done by sending a Messenger. Baha'is believe, Islam is renewed, and it is Baha'i Faith now. God does not make sects. So, its name is Baha'i, so it doesn't get mixed with those man-made sects of Islam.

And it has been refuted as well - please refer to that.

It has not been. Whoever reads those posts can decide and see...


USE OF THE WORD KHATAM (Seal):
In one of his sayings Muhammad calls his uncle, Hadhrat Abbasra, Khatamul Muhajireen (see Kanzul Ommal, Vol. VI, p. 178 Kanz al-Ummal). But it does not mean that Abbas was the last Muhajir (refugee) of the whole Muslim world.
Similarly, Hadhrat Ali is called Khatamul Auliya (see Tafsir Safi under the Quranic verse 33:41). Ibn Khaldun says this phrase is understood to mean that Ali was a perfect saint and not the last (see Muqaddama, Vol. II pp. 165–167).
An Arab poet, Hasan bin Wahab, called Abu Tamam (the compiler of Himasa) Khatamush-Shu'ara (see Wafiyatul A'ayan Li Ibn Khallikan, Vol. I, p. 123, Cairo). Obviously Abu Tamam was not the last poet. The word Khatam, therefore, used in such phrases means the best and not the last. [4]

Aisha, the wife of the Muhammad states;[33]

"Say he is 'seal of prophets' but do not say there is no prophet after him."[34]
​

Obviously, Ayisha, Wife of Muhammad, was very close to Him, and knew being Seal has nothing to do with finality of Revelation.
So, As I said, it is a man-made Idea that the Seal of Prophet means, finality of revelation. The Early Moslems did not think that way. It is just appealing to a Moslem to believe Islam is last one. That is all.

- Peace

 

[loverOfTruth]

What you are missing is that the Day of Judgement is passed. I had already discussed this in details in here:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/religious-debates/136643-signs-end-bahai-view.html

Great....so you are in Heaven now ? :sarcastic

Enjoy the eternal bliss..

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Great....so you are in Heaven now ? :sarcastic

Enjoy the eternal bliss..

Oh, I know what you are asking: If the Day of Judgement is passed, then where is Heaven and where is Hell? How come we are still here.

Well, I found this in Baha'i Scriptures, when people at the time of Baha'u'llah asked that question, it was revealed for them:

"They say: ‘Where is Paradise, and where is Hell?’ Say: ‘The one is reunion with Me; the other thine own self, O thou who dost associate a partner with God and doubtest.’"

Bahá'í Reference Library - Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh Revealed After the Kitáb-i-Aqdas, Pages 101-134

I prefer, to discuss the End Time, in the thread, which is made for it. So, if you continue about it here, I can copy your post to that thread and reply to it there, if that is ok with you.

 

[loverOfTruth]

Oh, I know what you are asking: If the Day of Judgement is passed, then where is Heaven and where is Hell? How come we are still here.

Well, I found this in Baha'i Scriptures, when people at the time of Baha'u'llah asked that question, it was revealed for them:

"They say: ‘Where is Paradise, and where is Hell?’ Say: ‘The one is reunion with Me; the other thine own self, O thou who dost associate a partner with God and doubtest.’"

Bahá'í Reference Library - Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh Revealed After the Kitáb-i-Aqdas, Pages 101-134

I prefer, to discuss the End Time, in the thread, which is made for it. So, if you continue about it here, I can copy your post to that thread and reply to it there, if that is ok with you.

After failing to prove anything from the Qur'an or Hadith, now you quote the Bahai scripture - but know that it has no value as an argument to me.

And FYI, Day of Judgement comes AFTER end times not BEFORE - just so you are not surprised when you come to it.

Peace.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

After failing to prove anything from the Qur'an or Hadith, now you quote the Bahai scripture - but know that it has no value as an argument to me.

That is just your opinion, and you are entitle to it.

And FYI, Day of Judgement comes AFTER end times not BEFORE - just so you are not surprised when you come to it.

Peace.

FYI both of them have passed. We are now in the new Age. IMO, you have learned Quran from incorrect source. Usually Moslem Religious leaders explain Quran literally even though according to Quran, no one knows its interpetation except God, and He reveals it in the on the Day of Resurrection. In Baha'i View this is fulfilled. The Day, which was 1000 years is passed, the Promise of God is fullfiled.

Peace.

 

[loverOfTruth]

That is just your opinion, and you are entitle to it.


FYI both of them have passed. We are now in the new Age. IMO, you have learned Quran from incorrect source. Usually Moslem Religious leaders explain Quran literally even though according to Quran, no one knows its interpetation except God, and He reveals it in the on the Day of Resurrection. In Baha'i View this is fulfilled. The Day, which was 1000 years is passed, the Promise of God is fullfiled.

Peace.

This drama is just getting more and more interesting :drool:

Peace to you New Age Immortal rock star soul.

 

[credance]

Can the gentle explain
1)-in the context of politic and diplomacy i think he lacked finesse,
2)-what has it to do with the Middle East thats in turmoil right now
-i would say its the ambiguoty of the Qur'an
-i would say its the ambiguoty of the Hadith
-i would say its the ambiguoty of the Sunnah
the Qur'an which was supposedly sent down with a clear message from a God is at the centre of a belief sytem thats at least two thirds Human,thats just an opinion.

Please can you give examples so we can see if the arguments are valid. They may be but furnish it. For if it is not then it would be grave injustice about a man who is not present to defend himself. I am here to defend the Prophet. You can speak to me about anything. Lets see!

You claim you are here to defend a man who is no longer here to defend himself.
How will you defend him and what are you defending him from?
Mohamed's words and deeds are history and the truth cannot be changed.
His words and deeds are the only thing left to defend and he was silenced almost most 1400 years ago never to speak again.
According to Mohamed there will never be another with God's true message. History will judge or defend him.
How do you imagine the world to be a thousand years from now?
Is it possible that people will think the religions of the past antiquated and out of date?
Is it not possible that God will have opened new paths for man to be closer to Him in truth and knowledge?

 

[muhammad_thaabiet]

Greetings everyone.

Seems to me in my humble opinion that this entire thread went waaaaay off topic.
According to my knowledge, what makes a man-woman great is what they bring to this world. And how THAT which they brought to this world changed this world for the better. In my opinion and through my experience Muhammad (S+) is the greatest man. Because he brought the Quraan. And only IN TIME (if God had willed) will we see the true wonders that lie within the quraan. Science Geography physics history chemistry cosmology biology and bmillions of more topics of knowledge lie within that which Muhammad brought, by Gods permission. Only in time will this all unfold and all those who ever doubted this great man will be silenced forever.

However, its good to debate with mutual respect but never bash and insult the others opinion and ESPECIALLY the next persons religious beliefs.

Peace to all...

 

[1robin]

Greetings everyone.

Seems to me in my humble opinion that this entire thread went waaaaay off topic.
According to my knowledge, what makes a man-woman great is what they bring to this world. And how THAT which they brought to this world changed this world for the better. In my opinion and through my experience Muhammad (S+) is the greatest man. Because he brought the Quraan. And only IN TIME (if God had willed) will we see the true wonders that lie within the quraan. Science Geography physics history chemistry cosmology biology and bmillions of more topics of knowledge lie within that which Muhammad brought, by Gods permission. Only in time will this all unfold and all those who ever doubted this great man will be silenced forever.

However, its good to debate with mutual respect but never bash and insult the others opinion and ESPECIALLY the next persons religious beliefs.

Peace to all...

Then why do no text books in any of those fields cite the Quran as a source of any kind. I have a degree in math, took science, chemistry, etc classes. Not one single Muslim was mentioned in any of them. The Quran does not even contain billions of letters how do you get billions of facts from it?

 

[ImprobableBeing]

Then why do no text books in any of those fields cite the Quran as a source of any kind. I have a degree in math, took science, chemistry, etc classes. Not one single Muslim was mentioned in any of them. The Quran does not even contain billions of letters how do you get billions of facts from it?

Mainly because Arabs got all of it from India.

The Quaran proclaims that salt water and soft water cannot mix.

It is taught to children that it cannot and they believe it, not only do they think this is actually true but the excuses that it doesn't happen in nature is contradictory given that rivers do run out into the sea and mix with it.

 

[1robin]

Mainly because Arabs got all of it from India.

The Quaran proclaims that salt water and soft water cannot mix.

It is taught to children that it cannot and they believe it, not only do they think this is actually true but the excuses that it doesn't happen in nature is contradictory given that rivers do run out into the sea and mix with it.

There must be a few hundred things Muhammad claimed that have no basis in reality but what is worse is they have no basis in common sense. Fly's with poison in one wing, and the cure is another, Satan living in our noses, sperm coming from our backs, mountains which have never stopped the earth from moving being placed for that purpose, and the moon splitting in half in spite of no astrologer in any nation on Earth recording this unprecedented events and NASA who has actually been there denying any event ever occurred of this type in the moons last few billion years. It never ends but what is worse is the attempts to defend this childish non-sense never end.