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The Gospel - Is it only that Jesus died or is it that we celebrate The Resurrection?

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I think Jesus fulfills the prophecies in the future through his church. The Christian through eyes of faith believes all is accomplished, that Jesus is the alpha and omega, even though it is not visible to physical eyes. Faith(fulness) is the evidence of things not seen. Martyrs are the foundation of the church.
When men are taught to analyze Torah they can get life from it, and regardless of whether "none of it is true in fact" it still has substance. If women want to study Torah that is up to them, but its important that the men begin to learn it. A male Christian who cannot analyze the Torah must do without the strength it lends. Its easy to develop an addiction to signs. We see this: in groups that look for proofs that prophecies have been fulfilled. There are some long and complex arguments, because they start to see prophecy as a tool to prove things.
Interesting that you mention ' start to see prophecy is a tool to prove things '.
I never thought of prophecies as a 'tool' but why not _________
* What was prophesied at 2nd Timothy 3:1-5,13 is a 'useful tool' that fits our day or time frame.
* The good news (gospel) of God's Kingdom (Dan. 2:44) is a 'useful tool' for the nations to hear - Matt. 24:14; Acts 1:8
* The ' final signal ' so to speak, of 1st Thess. 5:2-3 is a 'useful tool' to forewarn others when the powers in charge are saying, " Peace and Security......" that is really going to prove to be the precursor to the coming great tribulation of Rev. 7:14.
* And chapter 35 of Isaiah is a ' useful tool ' to show earth's beautiful paradisical future for earth and for us.
ALL such verses I think deserve to be in one's ' tool box ' to help others know God's purpose for Earth - Jeremiah 29:11
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
That would make Jesus a liar then.
No, it would not if you're referring to what I think you are referring to.
Genesis 18 has the account of three men visiting Abraham. These men were said to be the LORD. Yet God said that no man can see His face and live. We know these men that appeared to Abraham were angels. They could appear as warranted.
"Then the LORD appeared to Abraham by the Oaks of Mamre in the heat of the day, while he was sitting at the entrance of his tent. 2And Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby. When he saw them, he ran from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed low to the ground."
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
The Pharisees hated Jesus and Jesus explains why he pronounced many 'woes' upon them in chapter 23 of Matthew.
Jesus as Messiah (Not Pharisee) put his followers under the 'Law of Christ' - see Galatians 6:2
You simply do not understand where the Pharisees were coming from and how Jesus fit into that picture. Again, maybe read the link I gave you for evidence.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
Unlike a novel, the Bible I find is Not written to just be read as one would read a novel.

True, it ought to be read in stages as it was written, stages with many years between.
unknown authors etc. Only John mentions himself as the author, and that is questionable.
The other authors wrote anonymously, it was the Church that assigned the names as authors of their
gospels.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
You simply do not understand where the Pharisees were coming from and how Jesus fit into that picture. Again, maybe read the link I gave you for evidence.

Politically and religiously, Jesus would have identified with the Pharisees, but not with the hypocrisy,
as Jesus points out in the so-named woes. He did suggest they sit in 'Moses Seat', listen to him,
not to 'do as they do'.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Politically and religiously, Jesus would have identified with the Pharisees, but not with the hypocrisy,
as Jesus points out in the so-named woes. He did suggest they sit in 'Moses Seat', listen to him,
not to 'do as they do'.
Undoubtedly true, imo.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
True, it ought to be read in stages as it was written, stages with many years between.
unknown authors etc. Only John mentions himself as the author, and that is questionable.
The other authors wrote anonymously, it was the Church that assigned the names as authors of their
gospels.
I'll be simple about this -- seems the scrolls or books (however one wants to designate them) -- were written at various times, pertaining to various circumstances, the writers at various stages of Israel's history.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
You simply do not understand where the Pharisees were coming from and how Jesus fit into that picture. Again, maybe read the link I gave you for evidence.
Would you mind providing that link again, @metis, because I did some research on this and apparently the jury is out, many do not believe he was a Pharisee, and some do.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Politically and religiously, Jesus would have identified with the Pharisees, but not with the hypocrisy,
as Jesus points out in the so-named woes. He did suggest they sit in 'Moses Seat', listen to him,
not to 'do as they do'.
Well now the question comes up more about the Pharisees. I believe Paul had been a Pharisee.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
I'll be simple about this -- seems the scrolls or books (however one wants to designate them) -- were written at various times, pertaining to various circumstances, the writers at various stages of Israel's history.

Yes. And these are only the Gospels that made the cut from the many written.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Would you mind providing that link again, @metis, because I did some research on this and apparently the jury is out, many do not believe he was a Pharisee, and some do.


The key here is to read what they believe in, especially relating to dealing with the scriptures along with their concept of heaven. In Judaism, what Jesus was doing is called "commentary", which Jews still use today as descendants of the Pharisees. When Jesus spoke at the synagogue, that is something that Pharisee rabbis often did.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
In Judaism, what Jesus was doing is called "commentary", which Jews still use today as descendants of the Pharisees. When Jesus spoke at the synagogue, that is something that Pharisee rabbis often did.

Lapide, a Jewish scholar agrees. Jesus is speaking completely within the confines of the arguments of the Judaism of His time. Jesus uses the common way of speaking to give His Torah explanation, and that He in no way intends to express Himself ‘antithetically’ about Torah and tradition, and that He intends the radically break with it even less. That is a Christian construction that came afterwards.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Jesus uses the common way of speaking to give His Torah explanation, and that He in no way intends to express Himself ‘antithetically’ about Torah and tradition, and that He intends the radically break with it even less.
I do tend to agree with you.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
True, it ought to be read in stages as it was written, stages with many years between.
unknown authors etc. Only John mentions himself as the author, and that is questionable.
The other authors wrote anonymously, it was the Church that assigned the names as authors of their
gospels.
I'm trying to find the names of the ones who translated the King James Bible version.
Since 'God' is THE Author of the Holy Scriptures (2nd Timothy 3:16-17) then the rest are His secretaries.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
................................................. , and that He in no way intends to express Himself ‘antithetically’ about Torah and tradition, and that He intends the radically break with it even less. That is a Christian construction that came afterwards.

To me, Matthew 5:17 does Not come as a construction that came afterwards.
Fulfiled as Jesus said at Luke 4:21
Along with Jesus' advice found at Matthew 5:20
Besides Matthew 23:23 Jesus told us about man-made religious practices or ideas at Matthew 15:7-9
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I'm trying to find the names of the ones who translated the King James Bible version.
Since 'God' is THE Author of the Holy Scriptures (2nd Timothy 3:16-17) then the rest are His secretaries.
I remember going to a museum of art and saw a picture of one of the Bible writers with an angel by his side as he was writing. I found it very moving.
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
Lapide, a Jewish scholar agrees. Jesus is speaking completely within the confines of the arguments of the Judaism of His time. Jesus uses the common way of speaking to give His Torah explanation, and that He in no way intends to express Himself ‘antithetically’ about Torah and tradition, and that He intends the radically break with it even less. That is a Christian construction that came afterwards.
Jesus came to fulfill the Prophesies and the Law. Jesus, from the time of his youth would try to set the stage for this change, bu using scripture to show how all was coming to a head. Moses and the Mosaic Law, changed the Old Dispensation that came out of Genesis. Now the Mosaic Law was about to be updated. Nobody likes drastic change, so there was resistance, especially political, by those whose power and prestige was based on the Law.

One prophesy that was addressed by Jesus, was the coming of the Messiah. The anticipated Messiah was supposed to become powerful and able to rescue the Jews and then assume control over their enemies. Jesus to them, did not fit that bill. He was humble but precocious.

However, before older Jesus began his ministry, he went into the desert to fast and pray. He was visited by Satan, who among other things, offers Jesus the wealth and power of all the Kingdoms of the earth. Jesus does not question Satan's authority to do so, but he rather declines the offer. Had Jesus accepted this offer, he would have become the Messiah everyone expected; rich and powerful, having control over all the kingdoms of the Earth. By refusing the offer, he altered the future. To become the Messiah, he learned, he had to bow and serve Satan.

Jesus had been well known, by the Rabbis in his town, as being very precocious since his youth. When he returned from his fast, and told of his experience with Satan, and how the Messiah was connected to Satan, and not directly to God, the crap hit the fan. Their love changed to hate since he implicated them as connected to works of Satan.

Even today when I tell this way of looking at the Temptation of Jesus, and even though Satan in the tree of knowledge of good and evil, is a metaphor for Satan and law, this is not easy to swallow. It implies the Old and most of the New Testament, besides Revelation, after Genesis, and after the fall, was under Satan's authority.

However, this Satan Authority premise can be suported, by God resting on the seventh day. The first six days of Creation, has God building something and then resting; a day is done. After the six days, and the final rest, there is no direct indication that God ever works again, until Revelations of the New Testament. The miracles of Moses are more like maintenance and not the epic building of days 1-6. This lack of direct evidence of God back to work, would imply God was on a prolonged Sabbath Rest; in human years. He assinged others to do the work, of maintenaence, as God rested. The tradition of the human Sabbath, is not work, but if needed assign others to work for you.

Satan appears to have been was assigned to be the Lord of the Earth, in charge of humans and earth, after the fall, while God was resting. This rest is longer than assumed. When God gets ready to go back to work and epic creation he forms a New heaven and Earth in Revelation 22 and a bejeweld city of Jerusalem descends fron the sky; epic God caliber stuff

What Jesus did, by not accepting the offer of Satan; CEO, to be his Messiah, as God; Chairman of the Board, rested, was to cause a political divide in Heaven, that leads to a war. The Angels did not like Satan tempting the son of God, as God rested. Their job was to protect Jesus as even Satan says;

Mathew 4-6. If you are the Son of God,' he said, 'throw yourself down. For it is written: ''He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.''

Revelation 12:7–107 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven.
Up to the war in Heaven, Satan was condoned by God in Heaven, to be his CEO; Lord of the Earth, as God rested. But after tempting Jesus, there was a change in management; Satan is fired; Satan is then thrown to earth, and is now no longer condoned in Heaven. Humans still assumed the Old dispensation of Satan in Heaven, was still in effect, since nothng appears to change on earth. However, the old way is no longer sanctified by heaven; laws of God becomes the laws of man and exiled Satan.

Jesus said, “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 And a person's enemies will be those of his own household.

When Satan is thrown from Heaven, the earth become under chaos; spirital disorienation. God is not yet working, but is getting ready and Jesus is about to replace Satan as the CEO; faith and love condoned by Heaven.
 
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