the God Delusion/God is Not Great

[dragonflygrrrrl]

Just bought the books the God Delusion and God is Not Great. For those of you who have read one or both, what are your opinions? I haven't read them yet, but I'm looking forward to doing so.

 

[rojse]

I've read the God Delusion. Dawkins does a reasonable job of presenting arguments for religion for those who are not well-versed in theological debates, proceeds to refutes each of these arguments in several different ways, presents the most cynical view of the Bible I have ever encountered, and then discusses some major scientific theories that help explain religious phenomena or traditional goddunnit areas - evolution, creation of the universe, and so forth, in a way that is easy to understand.

The main problem with "The God Delusion" is that it is quite obvious Dawkins has an axe to grind with religion, forgetting a major logical fallacy, which can be presented this way:

1. A person or group of people has does something bad.
2. This person or group are all _______________
3. Being a _____________ is obviously bad.

 

[Humanistheart]

His arguments did seam more or less sound, however as the first poster mentioned it was obvious he had an axe to grind. The same arguments made from a person who seemed more impartial to the issue would ultimatlely carry more weight. I prefered Stephen Hawking's "A brief hitory of time" in which he states "So long as the universe had a beginning, we could suppose it had a creator. But if the universe is really self-contained, having no boundary or edge, it would have neither beginning nor end, it would simply be. What place, then, for a creator?" (pp. 156 - 157). A curious statment to be sure.

 

[MEMNOCK]

The God delusion is a very good read for those who have already or are in the process of breaking away from the shackles of "religion". I don't belive that it will have its intended purpose of openening the minds of belivers and freeing them. Its hard for them to comprehend the obvious truth on things when the opposite has been ingrained in them since birth through family and fear...I do recomend all to read it though...

Shepards whould never want the sheep to learn to think, they would be out of a job...

 

[sandandfoam]

Reading 'The God Delusion' set me back on the road to God. The irony of it never stops making me smile.

 

[Humanistheart]

Reading 'The God Delusion' set me back on the road to God. The irony of it never stops making me smile.

What a curious outcome. I have to ask, why?

 

[sandandfoam]

I'll start a thread outside the DIR to explain.

 

[dragonflygrrrrl]

I'll start a thread outside the DIR to explain.

I'll have to find this thread. I am curious.

 

[MEMNOCK]

Reading 'The God Delusion' set me back on the road to God. The irony of it never stops making me smile.

Im sorry, didn't think it was possible for that to work in reverse...guess you still need it

 

[Jesus Smasher]

I've read 'The God Delusion' and 'God is not Great.'

'The God Delusion' presents more of a scientific perspective (being that he is a biologist that would make since) and he's a little more wordy, so he can be harder to follow at times. While Christopher Hitchen's 'God is NOT Great' cuts straight to the throat of just about every argument imaginable given by those of faith. Hitchens delves more into the philosophy of theism and not so much the science or lack of science in religious ideas.

Overall Dawkins book is a little more proper and at times extra dry as far as the reading goes and Hitchens book is an all out offense obviously filled with rage at times, and his wit shines through making it a really entertaining read.

 

[ellenjanuary]

Reading 'The God Delusion' set me back on the road to God. The irony of it never stops making me smile.

Im sorry, didn't think it was possible for that to work in reverse...guess you still need it

Dawkins is his own worst enemy; a common condition. I could say; those who avoid misdirection smile, those who accept direction need; but I could say a lot of things...

 

[Yerda]

Just bought the books the God Delusion and God is Not Great. For those of you who have read one or both, what are your opinions? I haven't read them yet, but I'm looking forward to doing so.

I've read 'The God Delusion'. I remember finding it clear, quite light, often a wee bit humorous, and easy to follow. There wasn't really much that I hadn't encountered so I can't gauge its effectiveness directly, but I've heard people say (and get the feeling myself) that it's not going to change many minds. I like Dawkins' style, but I was nowhere near as excited as with his science work.

 

[dogsgod]

Of course Dawkins has an axe to grind, and rightfully so, creationists want their religion taught in science class, and Dawkins is a scientist. Duh. He's doing something about and deserves respect for it.

 

[Apex]

Of course Dawkins has an axe to grind, and rightfully so, creationists want their religion taught in science class, and Dawkins is a scientist. Duh. He's doing something about and deserves respect for it.

So Dawkings only targets creationists?

 

[dogsgod]

So Dawkings only targets creationists?

No, many atheists read his books and attend his lectures as well.

 

[Apex]

No, many atheists read his books and attend his lectures as well.

No, I mean do his arguments only target creationists.

 

[freethinker44]

No, I mean do his arguments only target creationists.

His best arguments are for evolution, mainly because it's his lifes work. So most of his angst is directed towards creationists, and unfortunately non-creationist members of that religion are targeted just by association.

 

[MSizer]

I agree so far with most people and most points. I have read both (and Letter to a Christian Nation among others). Dawkins is a good writer IMO, in that he keeps it simple most of the time (although I'm about 2 thirds through his newest one, "the greatest show on earth" and it is not nearly as simple. I also read "the ancestor's tale" with my wife, and it for the record, was very long, but good indeed according to us). If you think Dawkins has an axe to grind, you'll think Hitchens is out for blood. Hitchens is a cranky old bugger who has seen one too many bodies by the side of the road in the name of religion. It really comes out in his writing style. I agree though that he is very witty, so that makes it entertaining.

In a nutshell, if you want a logical overview of whether god exists or not, The God Delusion goes over most areas with enough detail to make it worth it, but not so much as to make it hard to read.

On the other hand, if you want to hear a nitpicking of every dark little secret the Vatican or famous theologian or religious politician has, read God is Not Great. While I do recommend God is not Great, you may wish to save Dawkins for last, as it will probably be the one you enjoy more.

 

[dogsgod]

His best arguments are for evolution, mainly because it's his lifes work. So most of his angst is directed towards creationists, and unfortunately non-creationist members of that religion are targeted just by association.

What members of the religions that Dawkins target do not believe that God created the universe? As far as I can tell they're all creationists, they just differ in the details.

 

[Apex]

Of course Dawkins has an axe to grind, and rightfully so, creationists want their religion taught in science class, and Dawkins is a scientist. Duh. He's doing something about and deserves respect for it.

What members of the religions that Dawkins target do not believe that God created the universe? As far as I can tell they're all creationists, they just differ in the details.

First you define creationists by the publicly accepted definition of the group who is pushing to have creationism taught in the class room. Then you do a 180 and claim all people who believe in God are creationists...
How about you just pick one and stick to it?