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Featured The Generations Need To Let Go.

Discussion in 'Seekers Circle' started by Ellen Brown, Aug 21, 2019.

  1. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    I've tried to have more contact with Native Americans because I am half Cherokee. Sadly I hear a lot about how the Europeans abused them, and they are right. I hear the same thing from Blacks, how the Europeans enslaved them. When I was full on observant Muslim, the Sisters were sweet and caring to me. I hear from the Hispanics about how the American Southwest was taken from them. They of course had forgotten how they had taken the land from the Native Americans.

    If you talk to folk from the UK, you hear endless histories about the warrings between the Scots, and English and Welsh, and Celts, and Romans. Sometimes this is expressed with as much bitterness as if it had happened yesterday.

    Then of course there are the sad stories about how Muslims invaded Andalusia, and on and on clear to the end of recorded history.

    I've heard lots of bitterness recited by the Persians about how Saudis invaded them, and of course about how the Byzantines had persecuted those in the Arabian Peninsula.

    It is all very sad, though I have my own theory about how perhaps God used all this strife to mix the genetics of all these people.

    I wish there were a way for us all to just give it up...
     
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  2. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise

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    The past casts a long and toxic shadow on us all. It's very freeing to just say "**** it" and live your own life.
     
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  3. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    I am an advaitist Hindu pagan and a strong atheist.
    Don't look back.
     
  4. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
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    Everyone's ancestors hands are bloody.

    Even the Native Americans went to war with each other and would kill each over land and resources.

    Conflict Among the Tribes

    Human history is savage and brutal. But its time we move on and not repeat those same mistakes. More "we" and less "them".
     
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  5. ImmortalFlame

    ImmortalFlame Well-Known Member

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    Except that some savagery and inequality has lingering effects that are still being felt today, and that many people still refuse to acknowledge, address or do anything about.
     
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  6. Duke_Leto

    Duke_Leto Active Member

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    How would you suggest alleviating those problems?
     
  7. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
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    It's been acknowledged. That's why programs like affirmative action and others are in place federally.

    Time to let go of the past and move forward. No more using the past as a crutch.
     
  8. ImmortalFlame

    ImmortalFlame Well-Known Member

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    That's the question. I'm not sure I am the right one to propose possible solutions, but at least taking a look at such rampant problems as police profiling, lack of public funding in predominantly minority areas, education on largely ignored or forgotten aspects of American history (such as native American history), things like that would certainly help.
     
  9. ImmortalFlame

    ImmortalFlame Well-Known Member

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    So do you think the problems don't still exist and won't take more time or effort to correct?

    Does "moving forward" mean "doing nothing", or can it include "acknowledging inequality still exists and taking steps to improve things"?
     
  10. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
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    There is problems that need addressing 100%. Single parent homes, poverty, drug abuse, crime rate etc.

    Depends on what you mean.

    Equality of opportunity is already established.

    So unless your talking about the very small % of white/black/whateva supremacist factions then I got no clue. These will unfortunately always be around to some extent. Some folks just have hate in their heart.

    But luckily the vast majority of the U.S. is not racist. We outnumber the racist by 100 million or more.

    I'll clarify my position though.

    Moving forward means everyone working together to solve the above mentioned problems. Not white folk solving black folk problems or vice versa. But working together. And it's as simple as that.
     
  11. ImmortalFlame

    ImmortalFlame Well-Known Member

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    Excellent, then we can agree disparity still exists.

    I'm not sure that's true. Disadvantaged groups, by and large, simply don't have access to the same opportunities that more privileged groups have. Being significantly more likely to be born into poverty tends to significantly impact the opportunities an individual has.

    No, I'm talking about systemic problems and (often unconsious) social bias, such as profiling, police brutality, broader economic effects, prejudice, etc.

    I'm not sure exactly how you can quantify that. For starters, many people who are racist - or who hold racist views - wouldn't call themselves racist (for example, "race realist" is a phrase used by many white nationalists these days). Furthermore, there are people who hold unconsious racial biases and prejudice that would never consciously consider themselves racist.

    Social inequality isn't just enforced by the fraction of the population who are obvious, card-carrying racists, but it can also be compounded by complacent people who don't consider themselves racist but are nevertheless subject to racial prejudice or profiling, or from profiting from (or downplaying the effect of) racially unjust systems. People shouldn't just omit the possibility of them contributing to the issue just because they never got a swastika tattoo.

    Ooh, so close and then a sudden jump backwards.

    What exactly do you mean by "black folk problems"?
     
  12. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
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    What privileged groups? The Asians?

    There is just almost as many poor whites as there is hispanics and blacks COMBINED.

    Basic Statistics - Talk Poverty

    African American Poverty Rate: 21.2% (9.0 million people).

    Hispanic Poverty Rate: 18.3% (10.8 million people)

    White Poverty Rate: 8.7% (17.0 million people)


    I agree. Single parent homes are the largest contributor to poverty, abuse, addiction and criminal activity.

    Meh I think most if not all of that is percieved and not real. Don't get me wrong there are prejudiced people out there. But as far as systemic goes. Nah, otherwise Obama never would have served 2 terms.

    Sure I see it all the time in the Democratic party. These white folk that think its racist to disagree with a person of color. If someone think I can't disagree with a person of color because I am white then they are the racist. I don't care what color your skin is. If your idea is good I'll agree with ya, if it's bad I'll tell ya it's a bad idea. That's what equality is, it's how I treat white folk, so it's how I treat brown folk and anyone else regardless of who they are.

    A good example is AoC. I don't like her politics one bit. But she did have a good idea a few months ago about doing some bipartisan work on banning lawmakers from becoming lobbyist. While I don't support her on any other policy to date. I did support her on this one specific policy. Because guess what, it is a good idea!

    For the most part yeah. Unless I see someone shouting racial slurs, wearing a hood, or branding themselves with a swastika or other hate symbols. I don't consider them a racist. With the exception of ones you mentioned like Richard Spencer or ya know Al Sharpton which I would deem "racist lite". :p

    The perceived problems you mentioned above here:

    With the exception of prejudice and social bias, which are problems all people share across the board. But that's mostly due to tribalism and less to do with racism per say. So these are not black only problems these are the entire human race issues.
     
  13. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    Except that this isn't really even possible. It's a delusion. Humans live in cooperative groups. Their well-being depends on each other. All this strife we see down through history comes from our being selfish. Not from our being cooperative.
     
    #13 PureX, Aug 21, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
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  14. ImmortalFlame

    ImmortalFlame Well-Known Member

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    Could be.

    Did you not look at the rates? White people make up 72% of the total population, but only 8.7% of the population in poverty. Meanwhile, black americans are only 12.6% of the population, but make up 21.2% of the population in poverty.

    Do you have a study to that effect?

    You just presented statistics which proved that systemic racial inequality does exist.

    Can we not make this a partisan issue?

    That's really barely anything to do with what I wrote. Do you or do you not acknowledge that people exist who would not consider themselves racist but still hold racist views or prejudices?

    I'm a little confused.

    Do you or do you not believe that a person doesn't have to CLAIM to be racist, or openly embrace racist views, to BE racist or have racist prejudices or tendencies? Do you or do you not acknowledge this?

    But in what sense are they "black folk problems" if they are problems caused FOR black people BY predominantly white people?

    But you acknowledge that the victims of such issues are disproportionately not the dominant, privileged groups, right? They aren't "black folks problems" that white people shouldn't have to fix. They are problems created BY privileged, predominantly white groups FOR disadvantaged, disproportionately black groups. In this sense, the impact IS going one way, and the solution has to come from the group causing the impact.

    If your neighbour was throwing trash into your yard, and you asked them to remove their trash, would a reasonable response from them be "Hey, why should I have to work to keep your yard clean? We should BOTH work to keep BOTH of our yards clean!"?
     
  15. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise

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    And groups seemingly have a vested interest in keeping alive the sins of the past. So it technically is cooperative, I suppose
     
  16. wellwisher

    wellwisher Active Member

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    The main reason nothing gets done, is those who say they are doing something, try to run a scam where they seek compensation in the present, by reliving the past. At the same time, they ignore the real time atrocities that occur around the world. The net affect is these so-called good doers play a lawyer and politician version of human atrocity, mostly in deep pocket countries, also for money and power.

    We cannot undo the past by extorting the present and holding people accountable, who not there and did not do the things they are accuse of . This is a version of human atrocity. Look around and you will see real time problems, as bad as the past, throughout the world. This is where you can make a difference.

    However, you cannot depend on left wing fake news to point out what is real. They try to create news and influence opinion in their political favor. Their atrocity needs to be addressed, since many wars and other forms of injustice began with mob induced lie and deception.

    For example, human and drug trafficking along the US southern border is a human atrocity. This is assisted by the open and inviting border politics of the Democrats. This real time connection is a place where real time reparation can be instituted to help break the cycle. If we rescue young girls from sex slavery at the border, we should charge the DNC $1Million in reparations to each slave freed. This is how you make a difference in real time, and deal in real time with the aiders of atrocities.

    The past is gone except in the imagination. Often various forms of fake news try to revive the lost past, so they can repeat the atrocities in the present. For example, when Trump won the presidency, fair and square, the Democrats did not move on and plan for the next cycle. They got stuck in the past, reliving the past, through constant political and fake news inductions. This led to punishing the present, for the past, in ways that were unjust and illegal. Luckily, justice will be served and an example set of what not to do via up coming SpyGate and Deep State trials. Hopefully Americans will learn how to move on, since hanging onto what could have been, spawns further atrocities bu distorting the present.

    If you look at Democrat Candidate Warren, she was fundraising after the mass shootings in the USA, using that atrocity as the theme for self enrichment. This is how atrocity is perpetuates, since it appears to many, that crime can and does pay middlemen.
     
    #16 wellwisher, Aug 21, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
  17. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    To some extent, letting go is the way to go, but it is difficult for many people to let go when the persecution, prejudice, ethnic cleansing, and violence between religions continues in real time.

    Muslims may be sweet and respect between Muslims, but Islam often is not sweet and respectful of those who are not Muslims.
     
  18. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member
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    When did the Saudis invade Persia? Saudi Arabia is only 90 years old.
     
  19. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    I think keeping the sins of the past alive is something that only some individual within a group do when they want an excuse to rape, rob, and pillage other groups. It's not a cooperative choice so much as it's a failure by complicity, allowed to occur by the others doing nothing. The U.S. response to 9/11 is a very good recent example.
     
    #19 PureX, Aug 21, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
  20. Earthtank

    Earthtank Member

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    Sorry to ask an irrelevant question to the main topic but, what does "When I was full on observant Muslim" mean? I am not trying to judge or anything, i honest just don't know what that means.
     
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