The Evolution of Altruism

[Nakosis]

Do you believe that evolution can explain the development of altruism in the human species or do you think that other factors were involved?

Altruism is when we act to promote someone else’s welfare, even at a risk or cost to ourselves.

​

Not that I'm agreeing with the above quote but, what do you think Rand meant by this?

 

[JustGeorge]

Being as I've only been around 38 years, I can't verify that altruism hasn't always existed. I've even seen it in animals from time to time. Perhaps as time went on, it became more cemented and became part of most cultures, but perhaps it was there, quietly.

Horrible things that people do have generally always been accepted as being there, so why not the opposite?

I suspect the author of the quote believes that in order to survive, and survive well, a society must put its own interests first.

 

[Quintessence]

I haven't read Rand directly, but everything I've heard snippets of - and the people I've known that have admired her writing - have been borderline psychopaths and socially maladjusted people. That quote rather epitomizes that, honestly. Humans are social animals. Add to that the fact that human reproduction is stupidly awful compared to every other living organism. Without substantial social support and social structures, humans would've gone extinct long ago. No species with such a long gestational period and period of underdevelopment would have made it without what we call "altruism."

All that said, I'm not an adherent of scientism, and I'm not a fan of reducing our understanding of reality to "science says." Certainly, biological evolution has some significant explanatory role to play but there are problems with the field of evolution that are only now starting to be course corrected. Traditionally, evolution is understood as environmental selection pressures operating on the species/population level. This isn't wrong, but it's also not the whole picture. Organisms are not just passive recipients of environmental conditions, they also shape the environments they live in. This is under-studied, and an especially important to factor in for ecosystem engineers and keystone species. Even less accounted for are factors that fall outside of biological evolution and into the arena of the arts, humanities, and social sciences. Why not explain altruism from the perspective of culture, or the humanities? That it's simply a story that has been told for so long it is part of who we are, irrespective of what evolutionary biology has to say about any of it?

 

[Jose Fly]

Do you believe that evolution can explain the development of altruism in the human species or do you think that other factors were involved?

Well yeah. Non-human primates show altruistic behaviors, which indicates that it's not exclusive to humans, which supports the notion that it's an evolved trait.

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

The most ironic thing about Ayn Rand's philosophy of Objectivism is that capitalism is the most altruistic system in place. Think about it - people are willingly voluntarily able to pay more for something than it's actually worth, to pay people that don't make as much money as the things they are selling is worth. Capitalism is altruism for corporations. Sure, everybody gets paid, but the owners and controllers of those companies usually get compensated more for their time, despite the workers putting in more effort.

Altruism exists everywhere. It is okay to be selfish, but what really works is if someone gets something they think is worth at least the cost of the product, that's how capitalism works. Most people are willing to pay more than what is required to buy something, therefore, there is some amount of altruism imbedded in most products. A meal at a fast food restaurant costs $15, but I'm willing to pay $20. The offset of the $5 I'm not paying, although I would if I had to, to me is some form of altruism.

Ayn Rand never really understood the concept of Comte's altruism fully.

 

[Alien826]

Ayn Rand was a very strange person. I'd read a lot of bad stuff about her, so, in fairness I struggled through the 1000 odd pages of Atlas Shrugged to see what she had to say.

In that book she talks about "super humans" (my words) that do all the heavy lifting in our society, and those that simply profit from their efforts. Her views on altruism shine through the whole book. To her, the basic rule is to never do anything for anyone else without some form of payment. Indeed, altruism is not just to be avoided, but it is actually immoral.

The justification is set out in her non-fiction works and she calls it "Objectivism". It somehow goes back to survival as the basic "good", but she lost me somewhere on the way. What is understandable is a defense of individual rights, as exemplified in laissez faire capitalism. Her history gives a possible explanation for her beliefs. Her family lived in Russia and were successful business people. The Communist revolution changed all that and they lost everything and she ended up in the USA, hating communism with a passion.

Anyway, to the origin of altruism, I wonder if it is an extension of child care, which is definitely pro-survival, which then spread to extended family, tribe, and so on. Just a thought.

 

[HonestJoe]

Do you believe that evolution can explain the development of altruism in the human species or do you think that other factors were involved?

Altruism won't have developed in humans but will have been passed down from out ancient ancestors. Loads of species demonstrate altruistic instincts - any species which in any way cares for their young could be said to be altruistic and it's certainly a key factor in any kind of pack structure (which is where we will have gotten it from, being essentially pack animals).

Not that I'm agreeing with the above quote but, what do you think Rand meant by this?

I'm honestly not sure (and am certainly no expert on Rand in general) but she seems to be promoting the idea that we should ignore our instincts to help the weak and poor, only focusing on those that can be demonstrated to be directly beneficial to society.

I'm not convinced such an idea would actually work and even if it technically could, I'm not convinced that any civilisation which needs to eliminate altruism to survive, should.

 

[Valjean]

Why would altruism be any different than any other physical or neurological trait? A small, weak, slow, defenseless, solitary ape would be at a considerable disadvantage roaming the African savanna.

Like most other primates, we band together, we're social. Band loyalty, coöperation and altruism, like bipedalism or apophenia, were selective. They increase fitness, ie: the chances of survival, and, crucially, reproductive success. Increased reproductive success increases the expression of these useful traits in the population. Selfish, anti-social specimens, like Rand, become rare.
-- Natural selection, 101.

 

[Yerda]

Do you believe that evolution can explain the development of altruism in the human species or do you think that other factors were involved?

Yes, I reckon the best account of the caring trait is that it was selected for.

Not that I'm agreeing with the above quote but, what do you think Rand meant by this?

I don't know for sure. I've heard Ayn Rand argued that altruism is evil but I haven't read her arguments. I expect she meant something more specific by "altriusm" than just spending our time or resources on the well being of other people, etc.

 

[Valjean]

Yes, I reckon the best account of the caring trait is that it was selected for.

What other options are there?

I don't know for sure. I've heard Ayn Rand argued that altruism is evil but I haven't read her arguments. I expect she meant something more specific by "altriusm" than just spending our time or resources on the well being of other people, etc.

I've read her. She was quite the anti-celebrity back in the '60s.
She detested altruism and socialism, and sees in them the downfall of society. She believed religion was foolishness. She lauded selfishness. One of her books, in fact, is titled: The Virtue of Selfishness. Its original title: The Fascist New Frontier, was rejected by publishers.

She believed in a dog-eat-dog, sink-or-swim capitalism and ruthless competition; that maximum good would be achieved if everyone put his own needs first. She advocated no social safety net or government "services." Those unable to compete could starve, and the gene pool would be improved.

 

[Ella S.]

As far as I understand, and I am not an evolutionary biologist, there are many factors involved in reciprocal altruism. It isn't a single trait but a collection of adaptations that work together.

Generally, reciprocal altruism is a decent approximation of what game theorists call the "tit-for-tat" strategy, which is one of the most successful strategies in game theory with a wide range of applications. I think it's very easy to imagine how evolution naturally selected for better and better approximations of this strategy.

That also means that pure altruism might not be selected for or advantageous. This might make sense given how many people-pleasers suffer from Samaritan Syndrome and tend to get taken advantage of.

 

[Audie]

Do you believe that evolution can explain the development of altruism in the human species or do you think that other factors were involved?

Altruism is when we act to promote someone else’s welfare, even at a risk or cost to ourselves.

​

Not that I'm agreeing with the above quote but, what do you think Rand meant by this?

At a guess she is against unregulated immigration.

 

[Nakosis]

Why would altruism be any different than any other physical or neurological trait? A small, weak, slow, defenseless, solitary ape would be at a considerable disadvantage roaming the African savanna.

Like most other primates, we band together, we're social. Band loyalty, coöperation and altruism, like bipedalism or apophenia, were selective. They increase fitness, ie: the chances of survival, and, crucially, reproductive success. Increased reproductive success increases the expression of these useful traits in the population. Selfish, anti-social specimens, like Rand, become rare.
-- Natural selection, 101.

In this sense, I take altruism to me to sacrifice one's one well-being for the well-being of the group. So it is more than just helping the poor. If you can help the poor with no cost to your own well being, that is compassion, not altruism.

Ann Rand actually endorsed compassion but only for the innocent. No compassion however for the perpetrators of crime.

 

[Revoltingest]

Altruism is an emergent property of evolution (IMO).

 

[Yerda]

What other options are there?

Maybe rather than being directly selected, altruistic behaviour could be a secondary trait associated with something else being directly selected.

Or maybe goddidit.

I've read her. She was quite the anti-celebrity back in the '60s.
She detested altruism and socialism, and sees in them the downfall of society. She believed religion was foolishness. She lauded selfishness. One of her books, in fact, is titled: The Virtue of Selfishness. Its original title: The Fascist New Frontier, was rejected by publishers.

This is in line with what I've heard others say about her work. I don't blame people who escaped USSR for hating socialism and much of her worldview seems to be a reaction against that world.

She believed in a dog-eat-dog, sink-or-swim capitalism and ruthless competition; that maximum good would be achieved if everyone put his own needs first. She advocated no social safety net or government "services." Those unable to compete could starve, and the gene pool would be improved.

This is almost comically naive and unnecessarily cruel.

 

[Revoltingest]

She believed in a dog-eat-dog, sink-or-swim capitalism and ruthless competition; that maximum good would be achieved if everyone put his own needs first. She advocated no social safety net or government "services." Those unable to compete could starve, and the gene pool would be improved.

That's only your inference. I read her as advocating
that everyone carry their own weight, that they have
entirely voluntary relationships with others. That's
how it was with her protagonists.

Remember...she came from an environment of
coercion, ie, the state owned you, & could do as it
pleased with you. To react in the opposite direction
with extreme is natural.

While I don't agree with her about many things, I
found the message appealing in an era when gov
assigned me a low draft lottery number during the
Viet Nam War. And even these days, Democrats
regularly embrace conscription, & not just military.
So this "altruism", ie, that you can be forced to
serve another against your will, is evil (IMO).

If it's a choice between Marx & Rand, I'll side with her.

 

[cladking]

While I don't agree with her about many things, I
found the message appealing in an era when gov
assigned me a low draft lottery number during the
Viet Nam War. And even these days, Democrats
regularly embrace conscription, & not just military.
So this "altruism", ie, that you can be forced to
serve another against your will, is evil (IMO).

There are only two evils; forcing others to do as you please/ restricting their liberty and the rejection of reason and logic to see reality.

 

[Valjean]

This is in line with what I've heard others say about her work. I don't blame people who escaped USSR for hating socialism and much of her worldview seems to be a reaction against that world.

This is almost comically naive and unnecessarily cruel.

Just read her work. Start with The Virtue of Selfishness (short read) and Atlas Shrugged (long reads). She's a radical libertarian and individualist.
objectivism | philosophy

 

[Revoltingest]

There are only two evils; forcing others to do as you please/ restricting their liberty and the rejection of reason and logic to see reality.

I can think of more.
But to list them would waste your time.
Actually, this post already wastes your time.
You should skip reading it.

 

[Revoltingest]

Just read her work. Start with The Virtue of Selfishness (short read) and Atlas Shrugged (long read). She's a radical libertarian and individualist.
objectivism | philosophy

BTW, she loathed libertarians, aka, "hippies".