The degradation of the FBI

[shmogie]

Regardless of your view regarding Trump, your view regarding impeachment, or your view regarding Russian meddling in our elections, you should be very disturbed by the Inspector Generals report on the "Russian collusion" investigation by the FBI.

As a criminal Justice/criminology college student, and later working in law enforcement, the FBI was the gold standard for investigations. Their model was the goal to be achieved. Impartial, apolitical, thorough and strictly by the book. Their fairness, and protection of citizen rights was legendary.

Sadly, this report shows an FBI that, for whatever reason, abandoned these principles. They relied on a bogus politically generated "report" as a substantial piece of "evidence" for cause to be allowed to spy on American citizens. They made little or no effort to verify this report.

In their desire to spy on Carter Page, a low level campaign volunteer, based upon casual statement to an Australian diplomat, who was very politically connected in the US, they once again lied. Page had a number of trips to Russia and other European countries and was a CIA intelligence asset.

The FBI changed the documentation that confirmed his CIA status, so that it said he was not connected to the CIA. They then used his trips to Russia as a reason to spy on him.

In essence, the FBI planted evidence, no different from a Police officer putting a "dropit" gun near the body of an unarmed suspect that she shot.

The report details 17 significant errors in this investigation.

If they can break the rules to spy on these people, they can do the same to you or me.

The end never justifies the means in law enforcement and criminal investigations.

The FBI will never again have the admiration in my eyes that they once had.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Do you have a link to the report?

 

[Terry Sampson]

Do you have a link to the report?

https://www.justice.gov/storage/120919-examination.pdf
"Review of Four FISA Applications and Other Aspects of the FBI’s Crossfire Hurricane Investigation" issued by Office of the Inspector General U.S. Department of Justice

 

[Nakosis]

Regardless of your view regarding Trump, your view regarding impeachment, or your view regarding Russian meddling in our elections, you should be very disturbed by the Inspector Generals report on the "Russian collusion" investigation by the FBI.

As a criminal Justice/criminology college student, and later working in law enforcement, the FBI was the gold standard for investigations. Their model was the goal to be achieved. Impartial, apolitical, thorough and strictly by the book. Their fairness, and protection of citizen rights was legendary.

Sadly, this report shows an FBI that, for whatever reason, abandoned these principles. They relied on a bogus politically generated "report" as a substantial piece of "evidence" for cause to be allowed to spy on American citizens. They made little or no effort to verify this report.

In their desire to spy on Carter Page, a low level campaign volunteer, based upon casual statement to an Australian diplomat, who was very politically connected in the US, they once again lied. Page had a number of trips to Russia and other European countries and was a CIA intelligence asset.

The FBI changed the documentation that confirmed his CIA status, so that it said he was not connected to the CIA. They then used his trips to Russia as a reason to spy on him.

In essence, the FBI planted evidence, no different from a Police officer putting a "dropit" gun near the body of an unarmed suspect that she shot.

The report details 17 significant errors in this investigation.

If they can break the rules to spy on these people, they can do the same to you or me.

The end never justifies the means in law enforcement and criminal investigations.

The FBI will never again have the admiration in my eyes that they once had.

"We want no Gestapo or secret police. FBI is tending in that direction. They are dabbling in sex-life scandals and plain blackmail… Edgar Hoover would give his right eye to take over, and all congressmen and senators are afraid of him."
The secret life of J Edgar Hoover

Old school I suppose.

 

[shmogie]

https://www.justice.gov/storage/120919-examination.pdf
"Review of Four FISA Applications and Other Aspects of the FBI’s Crossfire Hurricane Investigation" issued by Office of the Inspector General U.S. Department of Justice

Thanks Terry, you got it in faster than me !

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Nice to see the lead "how dare you criticise the perfect, brave, heroic police" booster acknowledging law enforcement isn't perfect after all. The start if a new enlightenment? Or a fringe outlying blip?

 

[shmogie]

"We want no Gestapo or secret police. FBI is tending in that direction. They are dabbling in sex-life scandals and plain blackmail… Edgar Hoover would give his right eye to take over, and all congressmen and senators are afraid of him."
The secret life of J Edgar Hoover

Old school I suppose.

An opinion re Hoover. He always had one goal, to get what he wanted from politicians for the FBI, and he found a way to do it. He was unscrupulous in this regard. He didn't care about politics, he would twist both Republicans and Democrats for the benefit of the Bureau. He got stuff on them, they feared him, and left the FBI alone.

Yet the day to day operations under his leadership were pretty much beyond reproach. He was preaching integrity in law enforcement when integrity was lacking to a greater or lesser extent in most law enforcement agencies.

I worked with FBI agents who were in the agency under Hoover. They loved him because they felt he would always support them, and not sell them out for political favor.

He truly had two faces.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Regardless of your view regarding Trump, your view regarding impeachment, or your view regarding Russian meddling in our elections, you should be very disturbed by the Inspector Generals report on the "Russian collusion" investigation by the FBI.

As a criminal Justice/criminology college student, and later working in law enforcement, the FBI was the gold standard for investigations. Their model was the goal to be achieved. Impartial, apolitical, thorough and strictly by the book. Their fairness, and protection of citizen rights was legendary.

Sadly, this report shows an FBI that, for whatever reason, abandoned these principles. They relied on a bogus politically generated "report" as a substantial piece of "evidence" for cause to be allowed to spy on American citizens. They made little or no effort to verify this report.

In their desire to spy on Carter Page, a low level campaign volunteer, based upon casual statement to an Australian diplomat, who was very politically connected in the US, they once again lied. Page had a number of trips to Russia and other European countries and was a CIA intelligence asset.

The FBI changed the documentation that confirmed his CIA status, so that it said he was not connected to the CIA. They then used his trips to Russia as a reason to spy on him.

In essence, the FBI planted evidence, no different from a Police officer putting a "dropit" gun near the body of an unarmed suspect that she shot.

The report details 17 significant errors in this investigation.

If they can break the rules to spy on these people, they can do the same to you or me.

The end never justifies the means in law enforcement and criminal investigations.

The FBI will never again have the admiration in my eyes that they once had.

Kinda dulutes it's intergerty as a law enforcement agency.

My uncle and best friends father were both deputy's in my hometown. The politics were so bad neither my cousins or my friend considered a career path in law enforcement.
.

 

[shmogie]

Nice to see the lead "how dare you criticise the perfect, brave, heroic police" booster acknowledging law enforcement isn't perfect after all. The start if a new enlightenment? Or a fringe outlying blip?

Interesting, I have never said the police are perfect. I of all people know they are not perfect. When they truly deserve criticism, I offer it.

However, most police criticism is nonsense, based in bias against them, and I say so.

Most of it is from comfortably safe people who haven't a clue as to what the police do and the risks they accept, or see the police as representative of those who they believe created the barriers in their life.

The overwhelming majority of cops are men and women who bravely go about their doing their duty. Collectively, they have millions of contacts with people every year, a high percentage with hostile people, many with extremely violent people. Some cops get killed doing their duty, about 53 this year.

You bet I will defend them from BS criticism. When they are proven to have made a significant error, I will criticize them I will not join the anti police herd when they start running based on emotion, lack of information or knowledge,or because of some kind of political prejudice.

 

[shmogie]

Kinda dulutes it's intergerty as a law enforcement agency.

My uncle and best friends father were both deputy's in my hometown. The politics were so bad neither my cousins or my friend considered a career path in law enforcement.
.

Politics and law enforcement are an evil combination. In some areas politicians and law enforcement maintain their separation from one another. In other areas they are in bed together either by power of one over the other or by mutual agreement.

I certainly experienced it. Once when I refused to bow to political pressure, a huge effort was made to punish me for not going along to get along. It failed and I was pretty much left alone after that.

In some jurisdictions Law enforcement officials feel they must go along to survive, or they buck the politicians and don't survive. The next one knows where the power is, and plays the game.

 

[shunyadragon]

Regardless of your view regarding Trump, your view regarding impeachment, or your view regarding Russian meddling in our elections, you should be very disturbed by the Inspector Generals report on the "Russian collusion" investigation by the FBI.

As a criminal Justice/criminology college student, and later working in law enforcement, the FBI was the gold standard for investigations. Their model was the goal to be achieved. Impartial, apolitical, thorough and strictly by the book. Their fairness, and protection of citizen rights was legendary.

Sadly, this report shows an FBI that, for whatever reason, abandoned these principles. They relied on a bogus politically generated "report" as a substantial piece of "evidence" for cause to be allowed to spy on American citizens. They made little or no effort to verify this report.

In their desire to spy on Carter Page, a low level campaign volunteer, based upon casual statement to an Australian diplomat, who was very politically connected in the US, they once again lied. Page had a number of trips to Russia and other European countries and was a CIA intelligence asset.

The FBI changed the documentation that confirmed his CIA status, so that it said he was not connected to the CIA. They then used his trips to Russia as a reason to spy on him.

In essence, the FBI planted evidence, no different from a Police officer putting a "dropit" gun near the body of an unarmed suspect that she shot.

The report details 17 significant errors in this investigation.

If they can break the rules to spy on these people, they can do the same to you or me.

The end never justifies the means in law enforcement and criminal investigations.

The FBI will never again have the admiration in my eyes that they once had.

Read the entire report to be objective. The 17 errors do not reflect the conclusion of the whole report, which you selectively cite with a religious and political agenda.

 

[sun rise]

The end never justifies the means in law enforcement and criminal investigations.

I agree.

The FBI will never again have the admiration in my eyes that they once had.

Being as old as I am, I did not have a lot of admiration for them during J. Edgar Hoover's time. Read this for a history of FBI misdeeds when he ran the agency: J Edgar Hoover's oversteps: Why FBI directors are forbidden from getting cozy with presidents

Read the entire report to be objective. The 17 errors do not reflect the conclusion of the whole report, which you selectively cite with a religious and political agenda.

Context is critical. When there is normal government stupid errors are fixed.

 

[Shad]

Regardless of your view regarding Trump, your view regarding impeachment, or your view regarding Russian meddling in our elections, you should be very disturbed by the Inspector Generals report on the "Russian collusion" investigation by the FBI.

As a criminal Justice/criminology college student, and later working in law enforcement, the FBI was the gold standard for investigations. Their model was the goal to be achieved. Impartial, apolitical, thorough and strictly by the book. Their fairness, and protection of citizen rights was legendary.

Sadly, this report shows an FBI that, for whatever reason, abandoned these principles. They relied on a bogus politically generated "report" as a substantial piece of "evidence" for cause to be allowed to spy on American citizens. They made little or no effort to verify this report.

In their desire to spy on Carter Page, a low level campaign volunteer, based upon casual statement to an Australian diplomat, who was very politically connected in the US, they once again lied. Page had a number of trips to Russia and other European countries and was a CIA intelligence asset.

The FBI changed the documentation that confirmed his CIA status, so that it said he was not connected to the CIA. They then used his trips to Russia as a reason to spy on him.

In essence, the FBI planted evidence, no different from a Police officer putting a "dropit" gun near the body of an unarmed suspect that she shot.

The report details 17 significant errors in this investigation.

If they can break the rules to spy on these people, they can do the same to you or me.

The end never justifies the means in law enforcement and criminal investigations.

The FBI will never again have the admiration in my eyes that they once had.

Now Comey is dumping on the system via procedure he was head of

 

[shmogie]

Read the entire report to be objective. The 17 errors do not reflect the conclusion of the whole report, which you selectively cite with a religious and political agenda.

BS. I have read the entire report. I have read it as a retired criminal investigator, professionally, not with any bias except the bias of how law enforcement is supposed to work.

PROVE, I said prove an agenda, prove my criticisms as wrong, prove "selective" citations.

I hear loud crickets in your post.

 

[Father Heathen]

Nice to see the lead "how dare you criticise the perfect, brave, heroic police" booster acknowledging law enforcement isn't perfect after all. The start if a new enlightenment? Or a fringe outlying blip?

It's funny how corruption and criminal activity matters again all of a sudden when it's not being committed by their political heroes.

 

[shmogie]

It's funny how corruption and criminal activity matters again all of a sudden when it's not being committed by their political heroes.

Identify a crime committed by any political figure, prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, then I will support THAT politicians removal from office. Corruption is composed of crimes, the crimes make the corruption.

My only political heroes in the 20th century are Teddy Roosevelt and Ronald Reagan. I have none in the 21st century.

You err, again.

 

[Deeje]

In essence, the FBI planted evidence, no different from a Police officer putting a "dropit" gun near the body of an unarmed suspect that she shot.

The report details 17 significant errors in this investigation.

If they can break the rules to spy on these people, they can do the same to you or me.

The end never justifies the means in law enforcement and criminal investigations.

The FBI will never again have the admiration in my eyes that they once had.

Are you really surprised at these revelations, shmogie? I don't believe you should be. As a Christian, you should know that God said he was going to expose all the corrupt elements of the devil's unseen rulership of this world when it was time for Christ's return.

2 Peter 3:9-10....
"The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." (ESV)

Every institution that humans have put their faith in will prove unworthy of that trust. One by one they are falling as their corrupt dealings come to light. People will finally realize that their trust should have been in the Creator.

 

[shunyadragon]

BS. I have read the entire report. I have read it as a retired criminal investigator, professionally, not with any bias except the bias of how law enforcement is supposed to work.

PROVE, I said prove an agenda, prove my criticisms as wrong, prove "selective" citations.

I hear loud crickets in your post.

No need to prove the obvious, You consider anyone who disagrees with you dead wrong,

 

[Stevicus]

The FBI will never again have the admiration in my eyes that they once had.

I was raised early on to respect the FBI and consider their image "clean" and "incorruptible." But after a time, I started to see them in a different light.

Not so much due to Hoover's Cold War antics, as a lot of that was a kind of mass hysteria affecting most of the government and much of the country as a whole. A good deal of government malfeasance, whether it's the CIA and "black ops" or Hoover's FBI or some of the activities of the military, perhaps can be attributed to an overzealous desire to protect America from perceived enemies, a kind of twisted patriotism.

The government may have made some reforms since then, although the same basic structure still remains. The potential for abuse has always been there.

I'm just not sure what the motive would be in this particular case. Would it still be patriotism? Would it be out of genuine concern that foreign agents may be trying to undermine the US electoral process? That's definitely something that would have gotten Hoover's attention back in the day. Of course, since Russia isn't Communist anymore, it makes it all the more mystifying.

On the other hand, anybody and everybody with money tries to influence politics in one way or another. Foreign or domestic, it doesn't seem to matter, as long as their money can be laundered. And of course, dirty tricks and politics go together like bacon and eggs.

 

[shunyadragon]

BS. I have read the entire report. I have read it as a retired criminal investigator, professionally, not with any bias except the bias of how law enforcement is supposed to work.

PROVE, I said prove an agenda, prove my criticisms as wrong, prove "selective" citations.

I hear loud crickets in your post.

You apparently did not read the whole report or you would have noted this:

From: https://www.justice.gov/storage/120919-examination.pdf

"We concluded that Priestap's exercise of discretion in opening the investigation was in compliance with Department and FBI policies, and we did not find documentary or testimonial evidence that political bias or improper motivation influenced his decision. We similarly found that, while the forma l documentation opening each of the four individual investigations was approved by Strzok (as required by the DIOG), the Executive Summary Review of Four FISA Applications and Other Aspects of the FBI's Crossfire Hurricane Investigation decisions to do so were reached by a consensus among the Crossfire Hurricane agents and analysts who identified individuals associated with the Trump campaign who had recently traveled to Russia or had other alleged ties to Russia. Priestap was involved in these decisions. We did not find documentary or testimonial evidence that political bias or improper motivation influenced the decisions to open the four individual investigations."

More to follow . . .