the Crimes of God

[Thief]

is it a crime for God to sit back and watch?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

As awesome as the Old Testament myths of God smiting people like you are,

Don't get jealous. Your beloved would not ignore you as he would let people rape you and and then either kill you or have you sold into slavery, but most likely killed.

Is there video footage somewhere of God soaring through the skies in a storm chariot amidst bright flashes of lightning and hellfire, destroying people with the elements? Hurling lightning bolts, consuming people in fire, slaying them with wind and ice, opening the ground to swallow them whole, opening the windows of heaven to flood the earth with primordial waters, nuking cities with fire and brimstone, causing drought and famine, inflicting disease, sending death angels and wicked spirits to torment or slaughter the masses, etc....

After all this time, if you somehow think I believe the Bible is real, and have been doing nothing more than calling out the atrocities of the character called god that is in the Bible, perhaps you should use your "angry screaming monkey" metaphor to describe yourself.

I mean, it is so awesome to imagine, believe me,

This is another one of those "things." It's actually quiet very easy for me to believe you would be excited over the existence of a such a toolish malevolent being who wants to call himself god and smite people who say "prove it."

 

[omega2xx]

I will tell you up front, I think it is creepy for anyone to give their life up under someone else's command. On earth and spiritually. So, I may never understand where you are coming from. It is when I was Catholic (a happy Catholic) and invited my protestant Christian friend to the parish I used to go to daily. She was offended. I asked her why. Catholic's worship the same Christ as every other Christian. All she saw was paganism in the Church. She saw no "god". It was like telling her to go worship in satan's house, is how she thought of it. That's how I think of Christianity, just not so drastic as many Christians see the Church among other denominations.

Since I already understand, experience, and have my views on Christianity, it is nice to hear perspectives of other people in their Christian walk in their words not Paul's and not Peter's. If I wanted their words, I'd go straight to scripture. Most my Christian friends (well, I would be surprised if one person wasn't Christian where I live since the place is owned and run by the Church) once they know me they tell me about their own experiences and how they see christ through their eyes. It's more refreshing since I can't sit down with Peter and Paul and ask them directly about their experiences. You are already going through an intermediary (the translators), then another intermediary (the apostles), then another intermediary (Christ), to get to what the father actually said without the any prophets and apostles being the "voice" of god. So, in that sense, I wonder if any Christian (trinity believer) actually hear christ's spirit or depend on his inspired apostles as christ himself.



Universality accepted has nothing to do with truth, right. It is still your belief not a universal truth.

It is a universal truth unless you can show it is not true.

Everyone can accept that five and five is twenty, that doesn't make it true. However, if only a selected group of people believed five and five is ten, that doesn't make it true.

Though, universally, we know that five and five is ten regardless of who accepts what. God is not truth. God is a belief just as I have a belief and Joe Smoe has a belief. As humans, we cannot claim to know the truth (for example, say "God is the truth") we cannot claim that..... ) We are not the center of the universe-Paul is not, Peter, you, nor I am. We are going off of our beliefs based on a lot of factors that are personal. Whether you agree with this or not is up to you but it's basic human psychology and all of the rest of how people understand the world and their place in it.

God is no more universal than the spirits of our ancestors because they are beliefs. However, we both believe these things are facts for all people and that is okay. The point is, regardless of how we feel about it, it does not mean it applies to all people as we want it to. It isn't universal. That is okay.

If the God of the Bible is the only true God, and He is, than He is universal and His words apply to everyone.

It is. Your truth is not my truth. It has nothing to do with acceptance. I know nothing about you, have never walked in your shoes, have not read the bible in your eyes, nor do I know your family, friends, and community. How you express your belief (your belief not the belief) is yours to own. If you are in a different culture that values community over self then we have culture clashes. Not right or wrong just different. However, I value personal expression so that's different, I guess.

The subject is not about my truth or your truth. It is about God's truth.


[QUOTEThank you. Let's put age on the back burner for a minute.[/QUOTE]

OK

That depends on the person. Not all avatars are women and not all are dark skinned. Yes, I have a conversational style but using avatars?

OK

Don't worry, they say the same thing. I'm almost half your age but then I wasn't raised in a hierarchy family. My sister hasn't even seen a payphone before but I wouldn't overstep her "wisdom" that I have as an adult because of her age. This is just my opinion. The older one gets, the more one does not change.

Yes the older we get them more we get set in our ways. T;ha is not all bad. We have found some of our ways are best.

If you don't believe me, change your faith from believing in god to believing in Thor. It's in your blood.

It is not in my blood to change becase I don't believe someone.


True. Some people are elders to me and some are older than me. It depends on their relations.

Depending on who you are talking to, we already know the scripture you are quoting is from god. Jesus didn't make up his own laws just because he spoke in his own human words. It's just using his own expression so that others who wish to follow god understand him through his son. I also feel that is what the holy spirit is-the expression of your faith. It is the exact reason why people spoke in tongues at the Pentecost and a whole other things. It's personal preference to talk by scripture. It's not necessary.



That's the problem there. People don't believe not don't want to believe. You're saying that it's the people's fault that they don't believe what you believe to be true. If someone told me that point blank, I'd say it's an insult. On RF, though, I just don't understand that mindset, really.

I am not saying people do not want to believe what I believe. I am saying some to not want to believe in God. Many consider it is like believin in fairy tales.

When you talk directly to me, I know you are speaking from scripture. I understand you don't want to take credit for what god told you to tell others. That's fine. The apostles didn't quote jesus verbatim. Jesus did not either. So it's all personal preference not something god a command or anything like that.

The apostles did quote Jesus verbatim.

Do you trust yourself to speak through the holy spirit without referring to scripture directly?

If I speak through the Holy Spirit, it is Him telling me what the Scriptures say. Of course that depends on if I hear Him correctly.

Judgement does not always need to be negative. Christianity is a judgmental religion. I can't think of another word for it.

Right. One can be judged guilt o not guilty. When a religion teaches not to judge, it is not a judgmental religion.

Many people have honestly done that and walked away because they knew god did not exist and they knew god's word was not a word of a spirit or entity. Once you tell them they "have no accepted" or "they rejected" or "they don't know the truth" that is judgement. You don't have to scream it to them. Just be nice about it and say call it what it is. You are literally judging their salvation based on what you believe is true. Whether they take offense is on them but it is what it is.

No one can know that God does not exist and no one can know the Bible is not His word.

I never judge one's salvation. It is not based on what I believe, it is based on what God says.

From your perspective only. That's my point.

I hope my perspective is from God.

 

[Thief]

This is another one of those "things." It's actually quiet very easy for me to believe you would be excited over the existence of a such a toolish malevolent being who wants to call himself god and smite people who say "prove it."

so there is no ONE greater than you....
and you won't suffer the list of things you made......

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It is a universal truth unless you can show it is not true.

I've shown god does not exist on many threads. It won't help because god is a personal belief not a universal one. Arithmetic is a fact all around the world just as the laws of physics and the sun existing. Of course you'll see it as universal truth; however, in my spiritual walk, I find looking at my belief as the belief is making many people below me. It's stepping on their views and it's depriving them of the existing of god which I know does not exist. Instead, I am happy and appreciate now that I can respect people in their faith without needing to make my views overstep theirs.

Whether you believe that god is universal and you are not talking for yourself is your preference. I don't know if you understand the difference between one's belief and what is fact. Beliefs and owning one's belief in god is not belittling god nor is it saying you are putting words in god's mouth.

When jesus quoted Moses, he did not do exactly what Moses did. He did not quote him verbatim. Verbatim means word for word. He referred to Hebrew scripture to make a point. He did not quote it as if he were a robot and was not a person separate from god at the same time one with him.

I believe in freedom of expression. If one is speaking for god, that's one thing (which god gave no one else the permission to other than the prophets and his son; christians are not the way and the light). If one is saying they cannot speak for themselves, that's another. You are a vessel to god, a messenger, or however you'd like to put it. But the very fact that you are not jesus and the apostles wrote the NT bible not jesus makes me think he wants people to value his words and express his words through the expression of one's self. It's you that was baptized not jesus as yourself.

It doesn't devalue god by saying "I believe" it just means you are being a child of god, acknowledging being a child of god, and talking as the child of god not of jesus to where others will not only know god through scripture (which doesn't always speak to people) but many learn about god and are saved by other people's testimonies too. The apostles gave their own testimonies. They said the source is from god but they made the testimonies. It was their experience. They are not god.

If the God of the Bible is the only true God, and He is, than He is universal and His words apply to everyone.

He is not. If he were, like the sun, everyone would know and once everyone knows, they have a choice to believe it or not. It is a belief based on faith. Not knowledge based on facts.

The subject is not about my truth or your truth. It is about God's truth.

Your truth is god's truth that is why you are christian. What you speak is of god. If you don't trust yourself (which is my assumption), that is how you see it. I see those who cannot speak in their own voice as christians as people speaking for god. Only jesus and the prophets can do that. Not christians. Christians speak for themselves via the holy spirit. It is through the holy spirit they speak god's word. God doesn't speak god's word. Christians aren't jesus.

I am not saying people do not want to believe what I believe. I am saying some to not want to believe in God. Many consider it is like believin in fairy tales.

Which, of course, is their right. Again, both of you guys are going off of belief. I have yet to hear a christian verify god's existence by facts only by assumptions, synchronicity, and what they trust already written. I have yet to hear a non-believer prove god's non-existence but remain agnostic to the fact. A lot of people, of which, reject him but I find that weird to reject something or someone that does not exist. That's me. I understand belief because it's personal. I don't understanding rejection of a non-existent being.

The apostles did quote Jesus verbatim.

They did not. The holy spirit moved them to speak in tongues. Jesus did not speak in tongues. I think Paul or Peter said "I have been crucified in Christ. I no longer live I, but Christ lives in me. Insofar, I live not for myelf but for the son of god." The verse that brought me to the Church.

If they spoke from christ verbatum, then Peter is basically saying christ crucified himself in christ. That's not true. Peter is saying he was crucified in christ. What the apostles are doing is sharing their testimony. Christ did not write the bible.

If I speak through the Holy Spirit, it is Him telling me what the Scriptures say. Of course that depends on if I hear Him correctly.

That's my point. When you speak through the holy spirit, it is him telling me what scriptures say. Christ can't speak through christ. It is through you. So it is your expression that relays scripture. Trust yourself. You're not being egotistic for saying what god says in your words. Your words doesn't mean you own them. There is a difference between your expression and you owning the words you speak. I own the words I speak. Christ owns the words you speak. However, the expression of these words are from you regardless of who speaks through you. You are not jesus.

Right. One can be judged guilt o not guilty. When a religion teaches not to judge, it is not a judgmental religion.

It is a judgemental religion. If god is the only way and everyone else who does not believe will not experience the kingdom of heaven, it is setting believers and nonbelievers a part. It is discriminating (not racism) between people based on their faith. That is the christian faith. Like I said, not all judgement is bad. It is still judgement nonetheless.

No one can know that God does not exist and no one can know the Bible is not His word.

I do know that god does not exist. I have explained it in other threads but no one has challenged me on it. They rather talk about science, evolution, and things of that nature rather than looking at why we believe and what shapes our beliefs and why we call them beliefs and not facts.

The bible isn't god's word anymore than the quran is. It is the apostles words about their experience and testimonies of christ and god/creator. The apostles and Muhammad are not god. Muhammad would never say he is the Way to the creator. Muslims to go god himself which trinitarians should do but they are in their own views about jesus being god. I guess they feel it belittles christ for god to send a perfect human to die for them. Don't know what that's about.

People can believe the bible is god's word all they want, to me that sounds like making the bible an idol. Jesus taught against that. But people believe what they wish because it is a personal belief. God has a relationship with that christian and through that is why we have so many christian viewpoints (yours included) because they are speaking how god speaks through them through their voice, based on their culture, upbringing, and generation we live today just like back then. It is no different. Nothing changed in the past 2,000 years in regards to spirituality.

I never judge one's salvation. It is not based on what I believe, it is based on what God says.

When you speak as a christian, and trust your self, you are speaking with your voice, your expression, through the holy spirit. The source can be god, that's alright. Once you take yourself out, you make yourself god.

By you being you and not god, yes, through the holy spirit, you judge (or discern who is saved and who is not) based on what you interpret in scripture. Whether you agree or not isn't the point because spirituality is personal.

I hope my perspective is from God.

It is if you trust yourself when you speak through your expression it is the word of god. I rather hear words from you not from scripture. I read the bible. So, I know Paul, Peter, and Jesus point of view but they are no different than you. So it's nice to hear different views regardless of the source of them.

 

[Thief]

there are no equations that disprove God

a line of thought to call Him unjust?.......

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

is it a crime for God to sit back and watch?

Would He consider it a crime if you sat back and watched?

 

[Thief]

Would He consider it a crime if you sat back and watched?

ah!...turn about ......

and should I reach out and do unto the unjust as they do unto others?

or should I wait until after the last breath.....when then I can tear into their thoughts and dreams

 

[rusra02]

make a list and the appropriate penalty

you might include a means of applying your judgment

Not guilty of any crime. "It is unthinkable for the true God to act wickedly, For the Almighty to do wrong." (Job 34:10) The fault lies with humans and wicked spirits, not the true God.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

so there is no ONE greater than you....

Where exactly are you getting that from? Solely from having the courage to call the god of Abraham a monster, the one real devil to be found in the Bible?

 

[Aštra’el]

The gods I worship are awesome... but YHVH is most awesome. Ultimate Creation, ultimate Destruction, and most importantly, ultimate Order over ultimate Chaos.

 

[Thief]

Where exactly are you getting that from? Solely from having the courage to call the god of Abraham a monster, the one real devil to be found in the Bible?

you made a list of what could happen to you ....if you believe in Someone Greater....

and if the Greater One refrains?.......so too the Other?

sounds like you're screwed either way

 

[Thief]

Not guilty of any crime. "It is unthinkable for the true God to act wickedly, For the Almighty to do wrong." (Job 34:10) The fault lies with humans and wicked spirits, not the true God.

so God had no regrets......

for clarity....the considerations are..
good vs bad....the condition of a thing
correct and incorrect....the answers to questions
right and wrong.....moral issues
good vs evil....the nature of a spirit

and God is continually on the better side of the fence?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

sounds like you're screwed either way

Sounds like you'd rather just try to think I'm things I haven't been going on about.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Not guilty of any crime. "It is unthinkable for the true God to act wickedly, For the Almighty to do wrong." (Job 34:10) The fault lies with humans and wicked spirits, not the true God.

This is the book that specifically has God admitting He is not harming Job (or authorizing harming Job) for any good reason?

From Job 2:
3 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason.”
(emphasis mine)

 

[rusra02]

so God had no regrets......

for clarity....the considerations are..
good vs bad....the condition of a thing
correct and incorrect....the answers to questions
right and wrong.....moral issues
good vs evil....the nature of a spirit

and God is continually on the better side of the fence?

Yes, I believe God has no regrets due to any moral failure on his part. When I speak of God, for clarity, I am speaking of Jehovah, for I believe Jehovah is the true God.

 

[rusra02]

This is the book that specifically has God admitting He is not harming Job (or authorizing harming Job) for any good reason?

From Job 2:
3 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason.”
(emphasis mine)

I take from that verse that Satan was seeking for God to destroy Job without any just cause. Of course, Jehovah refused to do this and blessed Job for his integrity.

 

[Thief]

Yes, I believe God has no regrets due to any moral failure on his part. When I speak of God, for clarity, I am speaking of Jehovah, for I believe Jehovah is the true God.

I don't believe God has a moral fail

it's just difficult for us to see the consequences for our own shortcomings

I believe in discipline and hierarchy in this world
and a GREATER discipline and Hierarchy in the next