The creator did it.

[TagliatelliMonster]

Can you fuse 2 pair of chromosomes from a human and produce an ape, with completely different genes, chromosomal makeup, and architecture? No. If they were the same, genetically, there might be some credence for a chromosome fusion theory. Merely counting chromosome pairs does not make an ape into a man, or vice versa.
A sable antelope has 23 chromosome pairs.. did it come from the ape, too?
A potato has 24 pairs. Did man descend from a potato?

..and i don't mean the potato headed posters on this forum, who blindly follow their beliefs, claiming 'Science!', but are clueless about scientific methodology.

yeah, let's just ignore the fact that if we split the fused chromosome at the exact fusion site, we end up with two chromosomes, one of which matches the chimp chromosome that we humans are missing.

That will surely make a valid point.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That applies to us all.

It only applies to those who claim it. Plenty of us readily admit our ignorance and dont pretend to have answers where none exist.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Nah, they just say that god exists outside of time,
and has no beginning or end AKA special
pleading but what is a poor theo to do?

Evict God from the clouds and boot Satan out of the Earths core amd force them to relocate to place outside of time.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

HOW did/does alleged fusing or splitting of dissimilar chromosomes, with dissimilar genes, 'create!' a new species?

There is so much wrong with this sentence....
The most important is probably that actually, nobody is claiming that the chromosomal fusion is what created a new species.

This cannot be demonstrated, or observed. It is a belief, with no scientific evidence.

Finding exact matches with the primate chromosome that we humans are missing, if we split the chromosome at the fusion site, seems pretty good evidence of chromosomal fusion in ancestors.

Railing on about 'science!', 'ignorance!', and affected righteous indignation is not a scientific rebuttal or explanation..

Arguing from ignorance isn't either.
And when you say false things, we can only correct you.

Your arguments are invalid if they are based on false premises.
That's not on us, that's on you.

And it's also addressing the arguments, not your person, so it's not ad hominim either.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

It only applies to those who claim it. Plenty of us readily admit our ignorance and dont pretend to have answers where none exist.

So you are an old school skeptic and always suspend judgement? I get that you are a sort of an agnostic, but you still act in the everyday world. I found that I still had to pretend to have answer about what reality really is to act. I still have to use claims, about what reality really is. There is no answer to what reality is independent of your mind, yet you act as if you have that answer, right? You are not a solipsist and I guess that you don't sit and only do nothing. So yes, you have answers or faith/belief.
But, yes, I get what you are saying, You are in effect a sort of agnostic and/or apatheist. But for the everyday world you still have answers and per the trilemma of knowledge, they are not knowledge, but beliefs, which apparently work.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I've looked for rational, scientific arguments and evidence, but just get assertions and fallacies. This is just a one way arcade, for unscientifically minded religious bigots, to lash out at a competing worldview. There is not even an ATTEMPT to debate the matter scientifically. This is typical, for this subject, with hysterical jihadists defending their beluefs with religious zeal.

But that is not science. It is religious hysteria

So, i will NOT engage in a thread where all there is is dogpiles of ad hom from religious fanatics, desperate to defend their beliefs, when SCIENCE, should be the discussion.

I would be glad to engage in a scientific thread, where scientific evidence and arguments can be made, but these religiouly bigoted 'debates', that center on false accusations, ad hom, rificule, and assertions are of no interest to me.

Your call. Ignore the science and harangue the poster, or show some intelligence and debate the science? Do you dare?

"Deflecting with ad hom and personal berating only deflects from the point. Pretended outrage over projected ignorance is a fallacy and exposes rational impotence."

There are already many, many scientific threads on this forum that you could participate in, filled with all manner of scientific discussion.
You should join one of those discussions if you're interested. There are many forum members who are quite fluent in the sciences, that have a lot to offer on such threads.


P.S. Attacking one's arguments is not an ad hominem fallacy.

 

[SkepticThinker]

So you believe. So you assert.

I assert it because it is a fact. You can read about it here:

Comparative Genomics | Learn Science at Scitable
Comparative Genomics
Background and Overview of Comparative Genomics

If the shoe fits..

It doesn’t. And name calling makes you appear hypocritical, given that you constantly complain about ad hom’s being thrown at you.

Though given the misunderstandings about genetics, perhaps 'Potato Head' would be more fitting

And another attempt at an insult. Hmm.

What is it that you don’t think is misunderstood about genetics? Because from this angle, it appears that you are the misinformed one, given what you’ve said about it.


So, I guess I don’t get a response to my post where I asked for examples of your many claims?

 

[gnostic]

You can speculate about my intelligence, hat size, education, and psychosis in the member interview thread:
Inquisition of usfan

Why would I want to do that?

You really dropped the martyr act and stop making things up.

How about asking some basic questions on biology and learn something other than creationism dogma.

I am not even a biologist, but even I can see that you don’t even understand basic biology, let alone more advanced biology.

Instead you keep make something impossible up in areas where you definitely didn’t do well in high school biology, and yet expect people around you to take you seriously.

Seriously stop letting your biases and pride to learn some actual basic biology.

If you haven’t been insultingly rude to shunyadragon, who could explain basic biology than I could, he could have help you.

 

[ecco]

As to your original quote, as I have pointed out previously; RE: "human knowledge is not the source of creation, but a creation in itself, by the Cosmos". Human knowledge was not created by the cosmos.

You said..."In the above, you seem to be saying that humans are the result of a "creation". If by "creation" you mean anything other than the result of sperm meeting egg I would disagree."

Yes, man is a creation, so is a star, and so is the planet earth. Man did not appear out of nothing,, nor did the sperm and egg, So where do you think the sperm and egg come from?

The problem is that you keep ducking your original contention, that knowledge is the creation of the cosmos. That was the assertion I referred to as woo.

You said..."All of the above are parts of the cosmos. The cosmos is not the source."

So there it is, I am saying the Cosmos is the source of all that exists. I am saying the Cosmos is one and the apparent parts are not actually separate from the Cosmos, they are integral aspects of the one Cosmos. It follows then that the Cosmos is the source of all that exists, it is the ONE that is all things, seen and unseen, known and unknown by human knowledge.

You have every right to your woo opinions.

That being said...The cosmos is not the source of anything. The cosmos is everything.

You are trying to make an argument that the cosmos created the cosmos.[/QUOTE]

 

[ecco]

..these are too funny..

It's kind of tragic, though, that these are considered 'scientific rebuttals!', here in Progresso World.
/shakes head/

You have dismissed all "scientific rebuttals" because you choose to disbelieve them. The only thing left is to point out that you choose to remain willfully i******t.

 

[ecco]

Religion is concerned with the who;
Science studies the how.
There is no conflict between believing in the existence G-d and science.

What "who" is religion concerned with? The "who" that your holy scripture says created the universe in seven days? The universe that science says took 13.7 billion years to get to here and new? How can you say there is no conflict?

 

[ecco]

As a result, there is no way to prove or disprove His existence

How about the existence of other gods: Shiva, Allah, Athena?

 

[usfan]

If you haven’t been insultingly rude to shunyadragon, who could explain basic biology than I could, he could have help you.

ROFL!!

Dripping with irony..

1. I likely understand more about biology, genetics, and theories of origins than anyone here. But my arguments are evidentiary, not fallacious. I do not argue from authority.
2. Nobody is asking for help. I'm here to debate facts and science (in the appropriate threads), and patronizing drivel like this is just demeaning ad hominem, for impotent debaters.
3. I am CONSTANTLY under a barrage of demeaning, insulting, off topic personal attacks, and only return mild fire on occasion. The hypocrisy of, 'oh, usfan is so mean!', is absurd. I dish out very little, compared to what i get. I mostly point out the insulting, ad hominem laced rants, and you call that, "insultingly rude!!"

Please. Don't help me. I don't want to be a 'wise, knowledgeable, scientific minded!', person like the progressive indoctrinees, here. They are mostly religious bigots, pompous dogmatists, hypocrites, and blind fools. That sounds horrible, to me. I really don't want to become a progressive indoctrinee.. There are enough of you already. I prefer the company of Truth, to the adulation and soothing assurances of propaganda.

Learn from my perspective, or close your minds to science. I don't care which.

 

[Subduction Zone]

ROFL!!

Dripping with irony..

1. I likely understand more about biology, genetics, and theories of origins than anyone here. But my arguments are evidentiary, not fallacious. I do not argue from authority.
2. Nobody is asking for help. I'm here to debate facts and science (in the appropriate threads), and patronizing drivel like this is just demeaning ad hominem, for impotent debaters.
3. I am CONSTANTLY under a barrage of demeaning, insulting, off topic personal attacks, and only return mild fire on occasion. The hypocrisy of, 'oh, usfan is so mean!', is absurd. I dish out very little, compared to what i get. I mostly point out the insulting, ad hominem laced rants, and you call that, "insultingly rude!!"

Please. Don't help me. I don't want to be a 'wise, knowledgeable, scientific minded!', person like the progressive indoctrinees, here. They are mostly religious bigots, pompous dogmatists, hypocrites, and blind fools. That sounds horrible, to me. I really don't want to become a progressive indoctrinee.. There are enough of you already. I prefer the company of Truth, to the adulation and soothing assurances of propaganda.

Learn from my perspective, or close your minds to science. I don't care which.

This is a laughable post. I seriously doubt if you understand biology at all. You do not even appear to understand the nature of evidence, how can you understand something from an "evidentiary viewpoint"?

One more time, in your own words what is scientific evidence?

Also you need to drop the ad hominem BS. Lastly the rudeness starts with you. You are only getting back a small portion of what you spew out.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

ROFL!!
1. I likely understand more about biology, genetics, and theories of origins than anyone here.

LOL!!!!!

The evidence (your posts) don't really reflect that.

But my arguments are evidentiary, not fallacious. I do not argue from authority.

Not from authority, true. But you do argue from ignorance and and by strawmen. As many have allready pointed out to you - wich you seem to handwave away by falsely calling them ad hominims.

2. Nobody is asking for help. I'm here to debate facts and science (in the appropriate threads)

You might want to brush up on both the facts and the science first.

3. I am CONSTANTLY under a barrage of demeaning, insulting, off topic personal attacks

Perhaps you should ask yourself why.
When it is CONSTANTLY, as you claim, perhaps it's YOU that is the problem?

Please. Don't help me. I don't want to be a 'wise, knowledgeable, scientific minded!',

Yeah, that was kind of clear already....

They are mostly religious bigots, pompous dogmatists, hypocrites, and blind fools.

Right, right..... but WE are the ones engaging in personal attacks ha?

 

[SkepticThinker]

ROFL!!

Dripping with irony..

1. I likely understand more about biology, genetics, and theories of origins than anyone here. But my arguments are evidentiary, not fallacious. I do not argue from authority.
2. Nobody is asking for help. I'm here to debate facts and science (in the appropriate threads), and patronizing drivel like this is just demeaning ad hominem, for impotent debaters.
3. I am CONSTANTLY under a barrage of demeaning, insulting, off topic personal attacks, and only return mild fire on occasion. The hypocrisy of, 'oh, usfan is so mean!', is absurd. I dish out very little, compared to what i get. I mostly point out the insulting, ad hominem laced rants, and you call that, "insultingly rude!!"

Please. Don't help me. I don't want to be a 'wise, knowledgeable, scientific minded!', person like the progressive indoctrinees, here. They are mostly religious bigots, pompous dogmatists, hypocrites, and blind fools. That sounds horrible, to me. I really don't want to become a progressive indoctrinee.. There are enough of you already. I prefer the company of Truth, to the adulation and soothing assurances of propaganda.

Learn from my perspective, or close your minds to science. I don't care which.

Nobody is forcing you to hang out with us progressive, potato-headed, bobbleheaded, indoctrinated, religiously bigoted, pompous, hypocritical, blind fools. (What's that you were saying about ad homs? )

You're free to leave at any time.
You're also free to learn what evolution actually describes at any time, as well.

 

[usfan]

Nobody is forcing you to hang out with us progressive, potato-headed, bobbleheaded, indoctrinated, religiously bigoted, pompous, hypocritical, blind fools.

You're right. Would it be better if i just ignored the dogpiles of ad hom, insults, false accusations, and distortions? I do that, mostly. No way can i keep up with the baiters, here, though. I'm not sure which of you is the Master, but I'll figure it out..

I have started a thread, as you know, that is for scientific examination of common descent, aka, the theory of evolution. It is every bit a haven for hecklers and disrupters, but i don't mind. I'm quite used to the hysterical, irrational responses from common descent True Believers.

I like the imagery of potato head, and since it has 24 chromosomes, it is a fitting analogy, for those confused or deluded about genetics.

But I'm sure you want to continue with the barrage of false accusations, distortions, and name calling, so I'll quit here, so you can display your wit & intelligence.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You're right. Would it be better if i just ignored the dogpiles of ad hom, insults, false accusations, and distortions? I do that, mostly. No way can i keep up with the baiters, here, though. I'm not sure which of you is the Master, but I'll figure it out..

I have started a thread, as you know, that is for scientific examination of common descent, aka, the theory of evolution. It is every bit a haven for hecklers and disrupters, but i don't mind. I'm quite used to the hysterical, irrational responses from common descent True Believers.

I like the imagery of potato head, and since it has 24 chromosomes, it is a fitting analogy, for those confused or deluded about genetics.

But I'm sure you want to continue with the barrage of false accusations, distortions, and name calling, so I'll quit here, so you can display your wit & intelligence.

You need to listen. There are no ad homs. We went over that. You are using an overly simplistic and incorrect definition of the term. You cannot name a "false accusation". I doubt if there were any insults, but if there were you probably earned them. And what distortions? As a Christian I would have hoped that you would understand the Ninth Commandment better.

And there have been no hysterical or irrational responses to your threads. It appears that you are guilty of everything that you accuse other posters of here.

And please, we all know that you are terribly confused about genetics. Your incredibly incorrect arguments tell us that.

If you have serious questions about science in general I will gladly try to answer them for you. You right now do not have the education to refute the theory of evolution. Don't you think it would be wiser to learn a bit? You might actually have a chance if you did that.

 

[usfan]

Here was my question, that 'triggered!' the barrage of ad hom & righteous indignation from the common descent Believers:

Can you fuse 2 pair of chromosomes from a human and produce an ape, with completely different genes, chromosomal makeup, and architecture? No. If they were the same, genetically, there might be some credence for a chromosome fusion theory. Merely counting chromosome pairs does not make an ape into a man, or vice versa.

And, a few of the helpful, scientific based replies:

Tell me, why are angry that you are an ape?

No one claimed that it does. Your questions are amazingly ignorant and that is not an ad hom.

Science of evolution does not propose that fusing or splitting of dissimilar chromosomes, with dissimilar genes, 'create!' a new species.
Your self-imposed ignorance and lack of education is revealed in your agenda with a religious worldview.
This is your problem.

yeah, let's just ignore the fact that if we split the fused chromosome at the exact fusion site, we end up with two chromosomes, one of which matches the chimp chromosome that we humans are missing.
That will surely make a valid point.

So which is it?. Fusion, or no? Irate indignation or rational rebuttal?

..and you pretend i am the instigator of your childish hysteria..

..but im done with the petty 'he said, she said!' bickering. If you want to talk science, I'll engage in the other thread. If you want to berate me, personally, the member interview thread is good for that. Or, you can keep dogpiling in every thread, all the time, with no let up. I don't really care..

And, i won't always ignore your ad hom grenades.. sometimes i will pull the pins, and throw them back..

 

[shunyadragon]

..but I'm done with the petty 'he said, she said!' bickering. If you want to talk science, I'll engage in the other thread. If you want to berate me, personally, the member interview thread is good for that. Or, you can keep dogpiling in every thread, all the time, with no let up. I don't really care..

Your done here?!?!!? I sure hope so! Good riddance to bad rubbish.