The Contradiction of an All-powerful, All-knowing God

[Nakosis]

You atheists always try to make logic arguments about whether God can be this and that. You can't figure it out because you haven't been given enough information and the information you do have went through ignorant humans who were terrified of comets.

God does not judge. Jesus is the judge.

There is no hell. Hell is the idea of separation from God but nothing can truly separate from God so hell is like having your program turned off. Your file still exists with God but it will never be opened again. And when Jesus spoke of the idea of hell He was issuing a warning to Lucifer, not humans. You always think everything is or has to be about you.

The reason for life is so God can experience things He could not otherwise experience.

God is all knowing but He does not know that which He does not know. What all knowing means is that God now knows everything past, present, and future in the universe. All time is the exact same moment in heaven. But, it is possible that God could have a future plan for another universe where there is a random element added to free will personalities, meaning, God would not know what would happen until it happened.

Sounds like you are making a logical argument. Based on what information?

 

[scott777]

Even if He knows what is going to happen before it happens it does not change the fact that God gave us the choice to choose what we do. Even if He knows we are going to destroy ourselves it doesn't happen until it happens and the choice still remains with us, not Him.

The bottom line is, chose wisely for His is watching -

So you believe that someone who is certain to be a genocidal maniac, perhaps someone who is going to build the most powerful weapon of mass destruction and destroy all mankind, and whom God can judge in advance that he must go to hell, he is still given life, which would be like heaven compared to hell. And he does that so that individual can be tested purely for their own benefit - then go to hell.

 

[scott777]

He could just be all knowing, all powerful, and a dick.

Well I am open minded!

 

[scott777]

I'd like to see an original idea. This same question has been asked so many times. Is it really that hard to come up with a new angle?

But has it been answered?

 

[scott777]

So your argument is that we don't exist. Well done.

Only if you've completely missed the point of the argument.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

What possible reason would a god choose not to know? Surely if someone is destined to turn out like Hitler or Pol Pot, god would be negligent in the extreme to choose ignorance.

Hitler, Pol Pot, etc. were NOT destined to turn out as they did.
They chose to ignore the Golden Rule.
If Adam and Eve were forced to love God then it could never be said they love God out of their own choice.
People like Job and Jesus proved that even very under adverse conditions a person could love God.
Adam and Eve had the best of conditions but failed in: love.
Satan had the best of conditions but failed in: love.
So, God choosing Not to know shows we are Not robots or automatons but free-will moral agents.
As an inventor knows how best to use his invention and supplies an owner's manual for success.
God as our Creator knows best how we can function with success thus giving us an owner's manual (Bible) so that by applying God's un-changable standards of love of neighbor, and even loving others more than self as Jesus' taught such un-selfish love at John 13:34-35 is for our best benefit.

 

[Super Universe]

Sounds like you are making a logical argument. Based on what information?

My "religion" is listed in my title on the right hand side of every one of my posts.

 

[scott777]

Hitler, Pol Pot, etc. were NOT destined to turn out as they did.

If God knew it in advance, which he must if he's all-knowing, then they were destined as such.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

So you believe that someone who is certain to be a genocidal maniac, perhaps someone who is going to build the most powerful weapon of mass destruction and destroy all mankind, and whom God can judge in advance that he must go to hell, he is still given life, which would be like heaven compared to hell. And he does that so that individual can be tested purely for their own benefit - then go to hell.

If I may take the liberty to add that the ^ above ^ outcome is Not a scriptural teaching.
To which ' hell ' would you be sending.
I find 'biblical hell' is just mankind's stone-cold temporary grave for the sleeping dead.
The reason I say that is because Jesus, and the old Hebrew Scriptures, teach sleep in death.
Such verses as found at John 11:11-14; Psalms 115:!7; Psalms 146:4; Ecclesiastes 9:5.
The churches of Christendom (so-called Christian) often teach a religious-myth hell as being Scripture.
If biblical hell was a permanent burning place then Jesus would be in hell.
The day Jesus' died according to Acts of the Apostles 2:27 Jesus went to hell for parts of three days.
So, in other words, the day we die we go to biblical hell or the temporary grave until resurrection day.
By resurrection day I mean Jesus' coming millennium-long day of governing over Earth when there will be a resurrection. Most people resurrected out of hell (grave) will be resurrected back to happy-and-healthy physical life on Earth. Only the wicked will be ' destroyed forever ' as per Psalms 92:7. Annihilated Not burned.
We can all choose to either ' repent ' or ' perish ' (be destroyed) - 2 Peter 3:9 - Not burned.

 

[DavidFirth]

Which assumption?

This is an assumption: " therefore judge them even before giving them life." You don't know when or even how He judges anyone but you only assume that you do.

Your conclusion does not follow your premises logically at all. Of course we live out our lives because we need to learn and He uses our lives to build up our faith. God enjoys His creation, He loves what He does; else He wouldn't do it.

 

[Nakosis]

My "religion" is listed in my title on the right hand side of every one of my posts.

I understand, but so you are basing this on what you've read?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

If God knew it in advance, which he must if he's all-knowing, then they were destined as such.

Because of the gift of free-will choices then God has chosen Not to know our choices in advance.
Adam was given a choice at Genesis 2:17 to either break God Law or uphold God's Law.
By breaking God's Law then Adam choose to take the Law out of God's hands and put the law into man's hands.
Adam thus set up People Rule as superior to God Rule. Time has proven Man Rule can Not bring Peace on Earth.
Satan wants us people, starting with Adam and Eve, to worship him over our Creator.
There would have been No need for Satan to challenge the man Job (Job 2:4-5) if God knew in advance.
For that matter, I notice that Satan challenges all of us. Touch our ' flesh ' (loose physical health) and we would Not serve God. Both Job and Jesus proved Satan a liar and so can we.

 

[Nakosis]

So what you believe doesn’t have to make sense?

So really, I could choose to believe anything at all? Such as I’m God or I’m Napoleon? And I should be respected for that belief and my actions should be respected?

Sorry I failed to answer this last part.

There is no need for you to respect any belief that can't be validated.

I don't need to respect your beliefs, you don't need to respect mine. There IMO should be no expectation of respect for a belief which can't be proven.

While I don't care what you believe, how you act, how we interact is a different matter. I think there should be a basic level of respect to fellow human beings. That doesn't necessarily extend to their beliefs.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Sure, if no verification or validation is required.
This is how I see religious or supernatural belief. Where nothing can be proven, you are free to believe whatever you want. Folks may feel they are justified in their beliefs but if they can't justify/prove/backup that belief, then it's not really justified. So why pretend that it is?

I find Jesus was justified in his belief because Jesus based his belief, his teachings, Not on what he came up with, but Jesus used logical reasoning on the old Hebrew Scriptures explaining them for us.
When we pick up the morning newspaper we read about the 'bad news' of men's kingdoms or governments.
Such global bad news is just as Scripture says it would be before the start of Jesus' coming 1,000-year rule over Earth. Whereas, pick up the Bible and read about the 'good news' about God's kingdom government (Daniel 2:44) that Jesus, as Prince of Peace, is the one who will usher in global Peace on Earth among person's of goodwill - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16. The words from Jesus' mouth will rid the Earth of the wicked - Proverbs 2:21-22

 

[scott777]

This is an assumption: " therefore judge them even before giving them life." You don't know when or even how He judges anyone but you only assume that you do.

Your conclusion does not follow your premises logically at all. Of course we live out our lives because we need to learn and He uses our lives to build up our faith. God enjoys His creation, He loves what He does; else He wouldn't do it.

I said that God “can therefore judge them even before giving them life.”

The ‘can’ bit means he is able to. That’s not an assumption. That’s the only rational conclusion to draw from God being all-knowing.

Are you suggesting God might be able to judge them but choose not to?

 

[scott777]

Because of the gift of free-will choices then God has chosen Not to know our choices in advance.
Adam was given a choice at Genesis 2:17 to either break God Law or uphold God's Law.
By breaking God's Law then Adam choose to take the Law out of God's hands and put the law into man's hands.
Adam thus set up People Rule as superior to God Rule. Time has proven Man Rule can Not bring Peace on Earth.
Satan wants us people, starting with Adam and Eve, to worship him over our Creator.
There would have been No need for Satan to challenge the man Job (Job 2:4-5) if God knew in advance.
For that matter, I notice that Satan challenges all of us. Touch our ' flesh ' (loose physical health) and we would Not serve God. Both Job and Jesus proved Satan a liar and so can we.

So you are another believer in a god who chooses not to know if someone is going to destroy mankind (let’s say by nuclear annihilation). Do you think he might do that just so he can teach a lesson to a single individual, before sending him to hell? Then how would the rest of mankind be able to learn to be good?

 

[scott777]

Sorry I failed to answer this last part.

There is no need for you to respect any belief that can't be validated.

I don't need to respect your beliefs, you don't need to respect mine. There IMO should be no expectation of respect for a belief which can't be proven.

While I don't care what you believe, how you act, how we interact is a different matter. I think there should be a basic level of respect to fellow human beings. That doesn't necessarily extend to their beliefs.

A very respectable opinion.

 

[Super Universe]

I understand, but so you are basing this on what you've read?

Yes.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

So you are another believer in a god who chooses not to know if someone is going to destroy mankind (let’s say by nuclear annihilation). Do you think he might do that just so he can teach a lesson to a single individual, before sending him to hell? Then how would the rest of mankind be able to learn to be good?

No one is going to destroy mankind ( nuclear or otherwise ). That is why I find there will be divine involvement into mankind's affairs. Jesus, as Prince of Peace, will rid the Earth of any who would be ruin to Earth as found at Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16; Revelation 11:18 B; Proverbs 2:21-22; Psalms 37:9-11.

The day we die we go to the Bible's temporary hell or grave until resurrected out of biblical hell.
ALL in hell ( grave for the sleeping dead ) will be ' delivered up ' (KJV) meaning resurrected out of hell, then emptied-out hell is cast vacant into a symbolic ' second death ' for vacated hell according to Revelation 20:13-14.
When the word Gehenna was translated into King James English it was translated as hell fire.
Gehenna was simply a garbage pit where things were destroyed forever Not burning forever.
As Psalms 92:7 says the wicked will be destroyed forever (annihilated) Not burning forever.

As far as 'how mankind will be able to learn to be good'...... This will take place during Jesus' coming 1,000-year rule over Earth when enemy death will be No more on Earth as per 1 Corinthians 15:24-26; Isaiah 25:8.
In other words, through Jesus' people will have the same opportunity to live forever on Earth as originally offered to Adam before his downfall. The wilfully wicked will be gone forever.The humble meek will inherit the Earth.

 

[Enoch07]

But has it been answered?

Yeah in a hundred other threads. Its just people bickering back and forth with no ground to be made. Its a dead horse that had been kicked into oblivion.