The Christian God doesn't make sense....

[rageoftyrael]

So, I'm sure this has been done, but I'm interested in getting a discussion going. I've been in multiple discussions with Christians about god. I'm pointing out that the god as they explain it doesn't make sense. Here's a point i've brought up and yet to have been given an adequate answer.

Why is it that the only truly unforgivable sin is not believing in god? I understand why religious groups need you to believe. I understand why a person wants you to believe in their god. I just don't get why a god finds this to be so important.

This matters even more to me, because if the christian god does exist as the bible says it does, I will go to hell, while murderers, rapists and such will go to heaven as long as they believe. How does that make sense?

 

[CMike]

So, I'm sure this has been done, but I'm interested in getting a discussion going. I've been in multiple discussions with Christians about god. I'm pointing out that the god as they explain it doesn't make sense. Here's a point i've brought up and yet to have been given an adequate answer.

Why is it that the only truly unforgivable sin is not believing in god? I understand why religious groups need you to believe. I understand why a person wants you to believe in their god. I just don't get why a god finds this to be so important.

This matters even more to me, because if the christian god does exist as the bible says it does, I will go to hell, while murderers, rapists and such will go to heaven as long as they believe. How does that make sense?

It doesn't.

In fact, according to christian theology, if Hitler "accepted jesus" right before he died he would go to heaven.

There are also numerous other problems.

According to christian theology god became man. However, jesus was executed. Therefore, who was around to allegedly get him to live again?

Also, G-D said numerous times that there is only him and to worship no one but him. Jesus supposedly prayed to god. So did he pray to himself?

Christians also supposedly think that he died for everyone's sins. However, would you be reponsible for your own sins. Also if he was a supposed sacrfice why did he complain "why have you forsaken me".

Also christians "added in whole other bible", however in the Torah it says not to add nor subtract from the commandments given.

True jewish martyrs never were killed in such a wimpy way.

Of course he was supposedly the jewish messiah but didn't fulfill the messianic prophesies.

When examined it really is utterly illogical.

 

[Shiranui117]

So, I'm sure this has been done, but I'm interested in getting a discussion going. I've been in multiple discussions with Christians about god. I'm pointing out that the god as they explain it doesn't make sense. Here's a point i've brought up and yet to have been given an adequate answer.

Why is it that the only truly unforgivable sin is not believing in god? I understand why religious groups need you to believe. I understand why a person wants you to believe in their god. I just don't get why a god finds this to be so important.

This matters even more to me, because if the christian god does exist as the bible says it does, I will go to hell, while murderers, rapists and such will go to heaven as long as they believe. How does that make sense?

Well, those who say that not believing in God is the only unforgivable sin are quite simply wrong.

The unforgivable sin is NOT not believing in God. The unforgivable sin is actively rejecting God, and not seeking forgiveness and refusing to make repentance for the wrongs we have done. We won't be forgiven if we don't want to be.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Why is it that the only truly unforgivable sin is not believing in god?

It's not: it's blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, as various scriptures state.

The Baha'i scriptures say this:

Chapter 31. EXPLANATION OF BLASPHEMY AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT


"Question.--'Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.'-- (Matt. 12:31-32)

"Answer.--The holy realities of the Manifestations of God have two spiritual positions. One is the place of manifestation, which can be compared to the position of the globe of the sun, and the other is the resplendency of the manifestation, which is like its light and radiance; these are the perfections of God--in other words, the Holy Spirit. For the Holy Spirit is the divine bounties and lordly perfections, and these divine perfections are as the rays and heat of the sun. The brilliant rays of the sun constitute its being, and without them it would not be the sun. If the manifestation and the reflection of the divine perfections were not in Christ, Jesus would not be the Messiah. He is a Manifestation because He reflects in Himself the divine perfections. The Prophets of God are manifestations for the lordly perfections--that is, the Holy Spirit is apparent in Them.
"If a soul remains far from the manifestation, he may yet be awakened; for he did not recognize the manifestation of the divine perfections. But if he loathe the divine perfections themselves--in other words, the Holy Spirit--it is evident that he is like a bat which hates the light.

"This detestation of the light has no remedy and cannot be forgiven--that is to say, it is impossible for him to come near unto God. This lamp is a lamp because of its light; without the light it would not be a lamp. Now if a soul has an aversion for the light of the lamp, he is, as it were, blind, and cannot comprehend the light; and blindness is the cause of everlasting banishment from God.

"It is evident that the souls receive grace from the bounty of the Holy Spirit which appears in the Manifestations of God, and not from the personality of the Manifestation. Therefore, if a soul does not receive grace from the bounties of the Holy Spirit, he remains deprived of the divine gift, and the banishment itself puts the soul beyond the reach of pardon.

"This is why many people who were the enemies of the Manifestations, and who did not recognize Them, when once they had known Them became Their friends. So enmity toward the Manifestation did not become the cause of perpetual banishment, for they who indulged in it were the enemies of the light-holders, not knowing that They were the shining lights of God. They were not the enemies of the light, and when once they understood that the light-holder was the place of manifestation of the light, they became sincere friends of it.

"The meaning is this: to remain far from the light-holder does not entail everlasting banishment, for one may become awakened and vigilant; but enmity toward the light is the cause of everlasting banishment, and for this there is no remedy."
--Some Answered Questions

 

[sandandfoam]

Why is it that the only truly unforgivable sin is not believing in god?

1. What are you basing this on ?
2. What do you understand by 'sin' ?

 

[gzusfrk]

So, I'm sure this has been done, but I'm interested in getting a discussion going. I've been in multiple discussions with Christians about god. I'm pointing out that the god as they explain it doesn't make sense. Here's a point i've brought up and yet to have been given an adequate answer.

Why is it that the only truly unforgivable sin is not believing in god? I understand why religious groups need you to believe. I understand why a person wants you to believe in their god. I just don't get why a god finds this to be so important.

This matters even more to me, because if the christian god does exist as the bible says it does, I will go to hell, while murderers, rapists and such will go to heaven as long as they believe. How does that make sense?

Unbelief in God is not the unforgivable sin. satan believes Jesus is the Son of God yet I dont think he will make it. Murders and rapist will not be in Heaven, ex murders and ex rapist will be there.

 

[rageoftyrael]

To sandandfoam, I am basing it from what i've been told by christians. As for sin, as far as i know a sin is something bad in god's eyes, right?

 

[sandandfoam]

To sandandfoam, I am basing it from what i've been told by christians.

I wouldn't take their word for it.

As for sin, as far as i know a sin is something bad in god's eyes, right?

No, wrong imo

 

[Skwim]

1. What are you basing this on ?
2. What do you understand by 'sin' ?

Seems there's some disagreement as to what thee unforgivable sin is, or that it even exists..

Some say it's the rejection of Jesus Christ.

What is the Only Unforgivable Sin Today?
Today the only sin that is unforgivable is that of not receiving Jesus Christ as Savoir.
source

It is unequivocally clear that the one unforgivable sin is permanently rejecting Christ (John 3:18; 3:36).
source
​

While others say it's blasphemy

The Unpardonable Sin
Mark 3:28-29 ESV
“Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the children of man, and whatever blasphemies they utter, but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”—

Matthew 12:31 ESV
Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.
source


What is the “unforgivable sin?”
And so I tell you, people will be forgiven every sin and blasphemy. But blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.” (Matthew 12:30-32, TNIV)
source
​

Then there are those who say there's no such thing.

A true Christian cannot commit a sin for which there is no forgiveness. We are protected by the power of God (1 Peter 1:5).
source
​

Take your pick. Which is the nice thing about Christianity: you can pick whatever notion best suits your needs.

As for what sin is, I leave that to Christians to define. From one source.

Sin: What is Sin and What Does the Bible Say About Sin?
​

For such a small word, a lot is packed into the meaning of sin. The Bible describes sin as the breaking, or transgression, of God's law (1 John 3:4). It is also defined as disobedience or rebellion against God (Deuteronomy 9:7), as well as independence from God. The original translation means "to miss the mark" of God's holy standard of righteousness.
source
​

 

[ChristineES]

To sandandfoam, I am basing it from what i've been told by christians. As for sin, as far as i know a sin is something bad in god's eyes, right?

You have probably been told that by a lot of Christians but that doesn't make it so. As far as I know, non-belief in God was not an unforgivable sin, as others have pointed out.

It's blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Parsimony]

In fact, according to christian theology, if Hitler "accepted jesus" right before he died he would go to heaven.

Not all Christians believe that.

 

[Man of Faith]

In an way, the fact that it doesn't make sense is a reason that it could be true. If it is only something that God could come up with, then that is evidence that man didn't invent it.

 

[Shiranui117]

^Great point. Why would a man-made doctrine be contrary to human reason? If anything, I would expect man-made doctrines to conform most closely with logic.

 

[Parsimony]

So if illogical doctrines could be found in other religions, would that be evidence that the deities of those religions exist too? Sounds kind of contradictory.

 

[Shiranui117]

^Another good point.

 

[Pegg]

So, I'm sure this has been done, but I'm interested in getting a discussion going. I've been in multiple discussions with Christians about god. I'm pointing out that the god as they explain it doesn't make sense. Here's a point i've brought up and yet to have been given an adequate answer.

Why is it that the only truly unforgivable sin is not believing in god? I understand why religious groups need you to believe. I understand why a person wants you to believe in their god. I just don't get why a god finds this to be so important.

disbelief is not the unforgivable sin.

The unforgivable sin is the wilful blasphemy against the holy spirit according to Jesus:
Matt 12:31*“On this account I say to YOU, Every sort of sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the spirit will not be forgiven.

to blaspheme the holy spirit would require belief in that holy spirit...otherwise its not really blasphemy against the spirit.
And this is the point that Paul makes regarding such blasphemy:
Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible as regards those who have once for all been enlightened, and who have tasted the heavenly free gift, and who have become partakers of holy spirit...6 but who have fallen away, to revive them again to repentance, Judas Iscariot would fall into this category of person...he purposely blasphemed Gods holy spirit by betraying the Son of God. Judas will never be forgiven for that sin.

This matters even more to me, because if the christian god does exist as the bible says it does, I will go to hell, while murderers, rapists and such will go to heaven as long as they believe. How does that make sense?

that makes no sense and thankfully, thats not what the bible teaches.

 

[Thana]

Why is it that the only truly unforgivable sin is not believing in god? I understand why religious groups need you to believe. I understand why a person wants you to believe in their god. I just don't get why a god finds this to be so important.

This matters even more to me, because if the christian god does exist as the bible says it does, I will go to hell, while murderers, rapists and such will go to heaven as long as they believe. How does that make sense?

Generally, Most Christians believe that the only unforgiveable sin is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

And no, Most don't believe you can just say 'God is real' on your death bed, And wham bam you got a ticket to heaven.

God knows our hearts.
Just because you say you believe in God, Doesn't mean you do.
Only by the grace of God do we enter heaven,
And all of us are sinners. You may not be a rapist, But I'm sure you've lied, cheated, stolen, hurt someone. We all have.
So why are you more worthy than someone who has sinned and repented?

To sandandfoam, I am basing it from what i've been told by christians. As for sin, as far as i know a sin is something bad in god's eyes, right?

Perhaps you should try basing your knowledge from the bible, And not from Christians.

I know it's easy to take their word for it, Because you expect them to be experts, But they're generally not.

Christians are just as fallible as non-Christians, And I bet there are a lot of Atheists who have more knowledge about the bible than me

 

[Pastek]

Why is it that the only truly unforgivable sin is not believing in god? I understand why religious groups need you to believe. I understand why a person wants you to believe in their god. I just don't get why a god finds this to be so important.

This matters even more to me, because if the christian god does exist as the bible says it does, I will go to hell, while murderers, rapists and such will go to heaven as long as they believe. How does that make sense?

The bad people will go to hell for a time, even if they believe in God because they transgressed.

 

[Yadon]

Just about the only thing more obvious than what you said, is that water is wet.

 

[Pegg]

The bad people will go to hell for a time, even if they believe in God because they transgressed.

the bible says that the punishment for sin is death. So when they die, all their wrongdoing has been made right. They have paid for their sins.

What further punishment do they deserve??? Why is further punishment even warranted??