The Brutal Math Of Poverty

[Ciscokid]

You ask him why he didn't just go to a bank. But his story is as complicated as the various reasons people find themselves in poverty and in need of a check-cashing joint. He says he lost his driver's license and now his regular bank "won't recognize me as a human. That's why I had to come here. It's a rip-off, but it's like a convenience store. You pay for the convenience."

He lost his drivers license and so therefore he's ****ed? Has he ever heard of the DMV? You can get a new one. I don't want to hear "he can't afford it" he sure as hell can't afford the huge fee's he's paying to use the check cashing joint. Something doesn't sound right.

 

[Alceste]

If you tell yourself you are going to fail, you probably will. If you tell yourself, "I have this obstacle ahead of me but it's no use, I can't make it" then welcome to failure.

Do you really think those who have been very poor have always stayed that way no matter what they did? There are immigrants who have made it in this country, talk about having the odds against you.

Ha - pretty funny. Those poor immigrants are usually pretty wealthy wherever they're from. I couldn't even immigrate to Canada. I'm not on their list of preferred occupations and I don't have the prerequisite 10 grand in personal savings and 2 grand in fees that you need in order to immigrate.

This country is chock-a-block with doctors who are driving taxicabs and mopping floors, because Canada let them in based on their profession but won't let them practice without going back into residency for several years.

I'm not saying there's no benefit to having a positive attitude, but there's a lot more to it than that. Saying "If you tell yourself you're going to fail, you'll fail" sounds awfully close to blaming to poor for being poor. Sometimes you tell yourself you're going to win, and then you fail. And sometimes you are thinking about something else entirely and you surprise-fail. And sometimes you tell yourself you're going to fail, and you win. Etc.

Point being, we don't have much control over our external circumstances and a certain amount of bad luck is inevitable even for card-carrying triple-A personalities. IMO, the more control we think we have, the more painful it is when failure rears its ugly head.

 

[Ciscokid]

On a hot spring afternoon, Jacob Carter finds himself standing in a checkout line at the Giant on Alabama Avenue SE. Before the cashier finishes ringing up his items, he puts $43 on the conveyor belt. But his bill comes to $52.07. He has no more money, so he tells the clerk to start removing items.

The clerk suggests that he use his "bonus card" for savings.

Carter tells the clerk he has no such card.

I belong to a couple stores that have bonus cards and they're free. This guy didn't bother to get a bonus card so that his prices would be lower, who's fault is that?

My heart goes out to folks who really have it tough at no fault of their own, but when I read stuff like the situation above or folks saying "I lost my license" and blaming that on all these expensive fees my compassion quickly erodes.

 

[Ciscokid]

Here's a comment posted from a reader, boy did they hit the nail on the head:

I grew up in poverty and can relate to some of the issues in this article. Some I can not. An example:

Corner store:
Wheat bread: $ 3.79
Milk 4.99
Bologna 3.79
Butter 4.49
----------
Total: $17.06

Safeway:
Wheat Bread $1.19
Milk 3.49
Butter 2.49
Bologna 2.50
--------
Total $9.67

Difference: $7.39 for FOUR items. These four items each week is nearly $30 for a month. I would walk to the the store for that kind of money.

Lenwood Brooks says he paid $15 to cash a $300 check at a check-cashing shop because he lost his license.

I would have taken that $15 down to DMV and gotten a new license so that I could cash my checks at the bank for free.

Soda and prepared foods would never wind up in my food cart. Too expensive. Nor would I spend good money on caller ID even if it was to avoid bill collectors.

Harrison Blakeney uses the check-cashing store to pay his telephone bill. The store charges 10 percent to take Blakeney's money and send the payment to the phone company. He pays this 10% because: "I don't have time to mail it."
WHAT?

These are examples of people WASTING what little money they have.

Escaping poverty is difficult. It takes hard work and fierce determination. It takes sacrifice. But it can be done. The key is to look for solutions instead of excuses and to not become awash in apathy.

 

[Alceste]

I belong to a couple stores that have bonus cards and they're free. This guy didn't bother to get a bonus card so that his prices would be lower, who's fault is that?

My heart goes out to folks who really have it tough at no fault of their own, but when I read stuff like the situation above or folks saying "I lost my license" and blaming that on all these expensive fees my compassion quickly erodes.

Typical comment by someone who has never found himself at a busy checkout without being able to pay for all the stuff in his basket. You really think the lack of a bonus card that might get him a few pennies off the cheese was the main thing this guy was upset about?

I've never seen a bonus card deal that gets you almost 20 % off, myself. Maybe I should try the stores you've been going to.

 

[Ciscokid]

Typical comment by someone who has never found himself at a busy checkout without being able to pay for all the stuff in his basket. You really think the lack of a bonus card that might get him a few pennies off the cheese was the main thing this guy was upset about?

I've never seen a bonus card deal that gets you almost 20 % off, myself. Maybe I should try the stores you've been going to.

LOL, he knew how much money he had and he knew the cost of the items...it's HIS FAULT he didn't get a discount card and he didn't spend the time to calculate his purchases!

I regularly see bacon buy one get one free with a discount card....that's a few bucks right there. In fact buy one get one free's are one of the biggest draws to getting the card.

The fact of the matter is, the discount card will get you savings...20% or whatever it's SAVINGS. Don't blame others because you choose not to use your brain.

 

[Dunemeister]

He lost his drivers license and so therefore he's ****ed? Has he ever heard of the DMV? You can get a new one. I don't want to hear "he can't afford it" he sure as hell can't afford the huge fee's he's paying to use the check cashing joint. Something doesn't sound right.

This is just about as ignorant a comment as I've ever heard. You've no DL, so you can just nip off to the DMV to get a replacement, can you? Bull. The check was worth $300, which probably means groceries or perhaps rent, which is likely due (or overdue). You simply don't have time to hop a bus (or two, or three) to get to the DMV, wait in line, and then hop those busses back again. In that moment, the guy's got to make a decision about what to do, and 9 times out of 10, that means taking the expensive route of using those usurious check cashing joints.

Sheesh, you'd think the guy, just because he's poor, has nothing going on in his life that might require his attention than replacing his licence.

Sorry if I've gotten a bit rude here, but I get rather steamed at this kind of presumption that the poor are irresponsible. I just happen to deal with the poor quite a bit, and by and large, they are very responsible people, masters of improvisation and getting things done as cheaply and efficiently as circumstances allow (at least insofar as mental illness or drug addiction aren't also taking their toll on the poor souls, but you'd be surprised how well they cope with even those handicaps).

 

[Alceste]

LOL, he knew how much money he had and he knew the cost of the items...it's HIS FAULT he didn't get a discount card and he didn't spend the time to calculate his purchases!

I regularly see bacon buy one get one free with a discount card....that's a few bucks right there. In fact buy one get one free's are one of the biggest draws to getting the card.

The fact of the matter is, the discount card will get you savings...20% or whatever it's SAVINGS. Don't blame others because you choose not to use your brain.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight, because everybody can accurately add up 52 bucks worth of groceries in their heads. :sarcastic

Cisco, some people can't even read the prices let alone perform complex mental mathematics in the grocery aisle.

Edit: I'm not trying to defend that particular guy. He sounds like a *******, frankly. I don't think the journalist's choices to put a "human face" to the story were all that great. It's looks like he just spent an afternoon in a poor neighbourhood spying on people, and having a chat with whoever was willing to give him the time of day. He'd have been better off loitering about the welfare office on cheque day and talking to some single moms and out-of-work builders if he wanted a sympathetic story.

Another edit: In fact, the more I think about it, the more it kind of ****** me off. It's twee and condescending, and smacks of romantic middle-class-liberal voyeurism. Why pick somebody in purple pants and an orange shirt in the thrift store, for example? What does that have to do with anything? I've completely kitted myself out for a week's worth of business clothes for ten bucks in one of those thrift stores when I was coming off the dole, and NEVER was it necessary to wear gaudy, horrifically mismatched outfits just because I couldn't afford to shop at the Gap. The writer went looking for people who looked poor, and who acted like they were having a hard time because of it, based on his pre-existing prejudice of what poor people look like and how they act.

When I was poor I looked good and stayed friendly civil, but I was still ******* hungry. This writer would have walked right past me chasing after somebody more dramatic and miserable-looking for his Dickensian fantasy of poverty.

 

[Ciscokid]

This is just about as ignorant a comment as I've ever heard. You've no DL, so you can just nip off to the DMV to get a replacement, can you? Bull. The check was worth $300, which probably means groceries or perhaps rent, which is likely due (or overdue). You simply don't have time to hop a bus (or two, or three) to get to the DMV, wait in line, and then hop those busses back again. In that moment, the guy's got to make a decision about what to do, and 9 times out of 10, that means taking the expensive route of using those usurious check cashing joints.

Sheesh, you'd think the guy, just because he's poor, has nothing going on in his life that might require his attention than replacing his licence.

I'm sorry home boy but the fact that he lost his license evidently is costing him a lot of money with these fee's he's so ****** about. FIND A WAY! Stop feeling sorry for yourself and blaming the world.

Sorry if I've gotten a bit rude here, but I get rather steamed at this kind of presumption that the poor are irresponsible. I just happen to deal with the poor quite a bit, and by and large, they are very responsible people, masters of improvisation and getting things done as cheaply and efficiently as circumstances allow (at least insofar as mental illness or drug addiction aren't also taking their toll on the poor souls, but you'd be surprised how well they cope with even those handicaps).

I never said the poor are irresponsible, this dude however isn't working with a full deck. I posted comments from someone who was making the same exact points...some of these high costs are coming from lack of action, some of the actions required are so damn minor!

Even if I had to call off work for a day and go to the dmv overall it would save me a TON in fee's. You have to use the goo inside your skull or yes you'll be paying out the ***.

 

[Ciscokid]

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight, because everybody can accurately add up 52 bucks worth of groceries in their heads. :sarcastic

Cisco, some people can't even read the prices let alone perform complex mental mathematics in the grocery aisle.

The writer tells us that HE put items aside to get the cost down...sounds like he knows how to subtract and add to me.


Hey I'd also like you to address post #44....this is some other person with the same sentiments I have, I think the points are valid.

 

[Dunemeister]

I'm sorry home boy but the fact that he lost his license evidently is costing him a lot of money with these fee's he's so ****** about. FIND A WAY! Stop feeling sorry for yourself and blaming the world.

I never said the poor are irresponsible, this dude however isn't working with a full deck. I posted comments from someone who was making the same exact points...some of these high costs are coming from lack of action, some of the actions required are so damn minor!

Even if I had to call off work for a day and go to the dmv overall it would save me a TON in fee's. You have to use the goo inside your skull or yes you'll be paying out the ***.

Going from ignorance to ignorance on stilts isn't helping your case one bit. Calling off work may lose him his job. Most employers who hire people for starvation wages aren't much interested in the health and welfare of their workers. This isn't paranoia, it's real. I see it every day. Minimum wage or poverty line workers are a dime a dozen, so it's simply not an option to miss work. Employers routinely fire such workers for missing shifts. Some other poor schmuck will take the job. Heck, I know workers who have sewn their finger back together after cutting it with a knife while preparing lunch for the day because they aren't insured and can't take time off work to go to the hospital.

We need to take seriously the idea that such biases as you profess are the product of our own prosperity (most or perhaps all of which we had nothing to do with). They show how out of touch we can be with life "on the ground" as it were, much as seventeenth century aristocrats were entirely ignorant of peasant realities, and as a result, either despised the peasants or idolized them.

 

[Dunemeister]

Escaping poverty is difficult. It takes hard work and fierce determination. It takes sacrifice. But it can be done. The key is to look for solutions instead of excuses and to not become awash in apathy.

Hard work and fierce determination are necessary, but they are not sufficient. Looking for solutions, whatever that means, also means looking beyond the poor person and dealing with the systems, attitudes, and circumstances that oppress the poor person and conspire to keep them poor.

 

[Alceste]

The writer tells us that HE put items aside to get the cost down...sounds like he knows how to subtract and add to me.


Hey I'd also like you to address post #44....this is some other person with the same sentiments I have, I think the points are valid.

That's not how it works. When you are poor and you turn up at the checkout with more food than cash, you don't do math. You discard the least essential thing. Probably some extravagant luxury item like the packet of gum or a bottle of juice you picked up for a treat. It has nothing to do with prices. The cheese costs more than the crackers, but the cheese is your protein for the week. That's the kind of decision you make, and you keep making it until the checkout girl tells you you've hit the target. Then you just think about how you're going to cobble what you're left with into some kind of a meal.

Of course that would never happen to you. You'd sit at your kitchen table with a calculator and a pen and a cookbook, right? And not even go to the store until you'd created a menu for the week that was nutritious and fell within your weekly budget. And once you got there you'd stick to the list like glue, and if anything on it had gone up in price you'd just go home and start over, taking the new prices into account. That's how YOU'D do it if you were poor, cuz you're smart, you use your brain. Well, good for you. :clap Really. That's great. Not everybody is as smart and responsible as you are though. Some people try stretching ten bucks out over a week a few times and after learning they're not quite as clever as you are, finally say "**** it. I can't do it. I'm just gonna get some doughnuts for today and eat out of the garbage starting tomorrow".

(Not that I ever ate out of the garbage. I "fasted" every month instead, because I'm smart too, and I use my brain, just like you).

Here's me addressing #44: What makes you think that guy is going to be poor forever? I mean, you're awfully confident - as is the person you've quoted - that the people in this article are deficient in the "hard work and determination" department. Do you know why he couldn't pay for his food? Do you know whether or not he or someone in his family is sick and uninsured? Do you know if he has a job, or a family? Do you know whether he could pay for his groceries last year without any trouble? Do you know whether he's going to be able to pay for them next week? No? Then shut up.

 

[Alceste]

(BTW, Cisco, I know the above post is pretty irritable, but my "shut up" is directed to the whole damn world. I have nothing against you in particular. I just get riled up over certain assumptions about poverty )

 

[Zephyr]

Not that I ever ate out of the garbage.

I ended up having to do just this towards the end of last April. When you have no food and no money (and no work, and nobody will hire you), you start to get desperate. People like to act as though it's so simple to dig your way out, but when you wake up each morning and have to figure out how you're going to eat for the day, other priorities get pushed to the side.

 

[Smoke]

This is just about as ignorant a comment as I've ever heard. You've no DL, so you can just nip off to the DMV to get a replacement, can you? Bull. The check was worth $300, which probably means groceries or perhaps rent, which is likely due (or overdue). You simply don't have time to hop a bus (or two, or three) to get to the DMV, wait in line, and then hop those busses back again. In that moment, the guy's got to make a decision about what to do, and 9 times out of 10, that means taking the expensive route of using those usurious check cashing joints.

I disagree. If his story is true, he can't afford not to get his driver's license replaced. There's something fishy about his story in the first place, though, because if he's got ID to cash a check at a check-cashing place, he's got ID for the bank. Those places don't just take your word for it that it's your check. Believe me, I've been there.

I've been poor, and I don't mean taking the bus. Taking the bus is a great big pain in the neck, but it's not the worst thing in the world. You can get some reading done, or some meditation, and at least the bus is usually air conditioned or heated, which is a good thing if you don't have air conditioning or heat at home. When you can't even afford the bus, riding the bus looks like heaven.

I have sympathy for people who struggle, and for people who give up, too. I've never been homeless, but I've been very close. No phone, no electricity, the rent's late, and nowhere to go if you can't make the rent.

The laundromat is a pain, too, but when you've washed your clothes in the tub and hung them up to dry because you couldn't afford the laundromat, the laundromat looks pretty good. And I knew even then that I was lucky I had the tub and the water.

I'm sorry, but if you're poor and you're buying $9 worth of hot fried chicken wings, you're crazy. You can't afford that, if you're really poor. Making decisions like that will keep you poor forever. I'm not poor now, or I don't think I am, but if either John or I lost our job, we wouldn't be able to buy stuff like that.

Yeah, you walk and you take the bus and you spend your whole day off trying to take care of the basics so you can walk to work or take the bus again next week. It's hard and it wears you out and sometimes it seems you feel like you can't keep doing it. I know. But you don't buy nine dollars worth of chicken wings, you don't pay ten percent of your phone bill because "you don't have time to mail it," and you damned sure don't buy your groceries at the convenience store. You can buy stamps almost everywhere; you don't have to take a bus to the post office. You can buy them from your mail carrier, and the same mail carrier will take your mail for you, or if you don't trust your neighbors it's not that hard to find a mailbox. Some of the things these guys are doing are not out of necessity; they're just stupid.

To be honest, though, I made bad choices, too, and I didn't haul myself up by my bootstraps, either. I just got lucky. I knew somebody who knew somebody who was looking for a roommate, and that gave me enough breathing room to get on my feet. I don't know what might have happened to me otherwise.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I know many poor people who have no problem affording malt liquor and cigarettes.

 

[Ciscokid]

Well obviously there are multiple views on this story and of course it's not fun reading about people who hardly make enough to survive. The bottom line is that I believe in being accountable for my choice and my actions so therefore I do the same to others.

As Smoke pointed out there are clearly incredibly bad choice these guys are making that while they certainly wouldn't be middle class if they corrected them, they wouldn't be as poor either.

It is common sense that if you don't make a lot you don't buy luxuries like soda and chicken wings. I'm sorry but that's where you lose me.

 

[rojse]

I know many poor people who have no problem affording malt liquor and cigarettes.

Yes, let's make broad generalisations and use them to categorise all people of that group.

 

[rojse]

Well obviously there are multiple views on this story and of course it's not fun reading about people who hardly make enough to survive. The bottom line is that I believe in being accountable for my choice and my actions so therefore I do the same to others.

And how many people are born into poverty, and aren't given the opportunity of a sufficient education to get themselves out of this? Is this their choice at all or not?