The big Bad Catholic Church

[Spiderman]

Yes...it means to withdraw or retreat from a position or view. You post in a few threads, that you believe Islam is to blame for terrorism.
Now you are claiming you didn't say that.

Back pedaling.

Give the link where I said Islam is to blame for terrorism

 

[JayJayDee]

What's wrong with the Jews?

The Jews that put Jesus to death were the Pharisees of that day.
They put great store in the fact that they were God's people and had the temple and were occupying the seat of Moses.....but being sons of Abraham did not stop them from committing the greatest travesty of justice there could ever be....the murder of the son of God. They trumped up the charges against Jesus and howled for his execution even when the governing authority of Rome found that he had committed no offense worthy of death.

You mean those Jews?

 

[Kolibri]

The Jews that put Jesus to death were the Pharisees of that day.
They put great store in the fact that they were God's people and had the temple and were occupying the seat of Moses.....but being sons of Abraham did not stop them from committing the greatest travesty of justice there could ever be....the murder of the son of God. They trumped up the charges against Jesus and howled for his execution even when the governing authority of Rome found that he had committed no offense worthy of death.

You mean those Jews?

Of course that does not mean that the Jews of today are to blame for the murder of the Christ. But those that instigated it certainly were.

 

[Deidre]

Give the link where I said Islam is to blame for terrorism

You can't find your threads? lol
You can think as you wish, just own what you infer. That's all.

 

[Deidre]

Of course that does not mean that the Jews of today are to blame for the murder of the Christ. But those that instigated it certainly were.

If the story within the NT is true, I happen to think it was a collective effort. Human nature causes us sometimes to place the harshest blame on those who directly instigate situations, but there were a lot of 'bystanders' who weren't Jews, who did nothing to stop the event. And some just went along with it. I think it was a collective effort, I don't solely blame the Jews for Jesus' execution.

 

[Kolibri]

If the story within the NT is true, I happen to think it was a collective effort. Human nature causes us sometimes to place the harshest blame on those who directly instigate situations, but there were a lot of 'bystanders' who weren't Jews, who did nothing to stop the event. And some just went along with it. I think it was a collective effort, I don't solely blame the Jews for Jesus' execution.

Absolutely.
They carried a heavier weight because they knew he was coming and what to look for, but he did not measure up to their wish and he exposed their hypocrisies. But others were complacent and carried some blame.

Still, throughout the centuries people have wrongly persecuted a people for the sins of their ancestors. Those that follow Judaism today, of any variety, are a new generation far removed from the 1st Century. Nothing in the Christian Greek Scriptures allows for us to hate people for what their ancestors did. We are even commanded to basically "love the people while we hate the deeds." And to leave the judging to God who leaves the judging to his Son.

 

[Spiderman]

You can't find your threads? lol
You can think as you wish, just own what you infer. That's all.

The point I was making is that I see alot of beauty in Islam. Look up the five pillars of Islam. I think 4 1/2 of the pillars are admirable. So is it Islam that is responsible for the terrorism. Well....the toxic pieces of islam are yes.

Muhammad was a mass murderer, a bigot, a pedophile, a polygymist, and a military Dictator. "just own what you infer" I did...over and over again. I didn't back pedal on anything.

You like to make many false charges that have no basis.

 

[Pegg]

I don't think it is Satan's religion. I put "" marks next to that. Im quoting the many people I know who say it is Satan's Religion. Read my post. It was defending what Catholicism teaches.

the Problem is it doesn't practice what it preaches.

 

[Spiderman]

the Problem is it doesn't practice what it preaches.

who is it?

I assume It is the people that call themselves Catholic by name and not by Deed. Yes. Catholicism doesn't enforce the law. Catholics know what they are supposed to do and no one is going to flog them, cut off their hand, behead, or stone them for not being faithful to their duties. Bishops will do as they please without some supernatural force stopping them.

They can choose to obey the Church or not.

The Deeds of those priests and Bishops were not Catholic.

 

[JayJayDee]

who is it?

I assume It is the people that call themselves Catholic by name and not by Deed. Yes. Catholicism doesn't enforce the law. Catholics know what they are supposed to do and no one is going to flog them, cut off their hand, behead, or stone them for not being faithful to their duties.

There is a big difference between discipline and abuse.

In the first century there was discipline for those who were breaking God's laws. Excommunication was the most serious form of discipline administered. No beheading, no implements of torture and no forced confessions. The offenders were just asked to leave until they showed the proper respect for the God they claimed to obey. Only genuine repentance led to reinstatement in the congregation.

Bishops will do as they please without some supernatural force stopping them.

Those appointed to positions of service in the congregations were to qualify before their appointment to make sure that they were suitable for the responsibility that went with the role. It would indeed be be a blight on any church not to be able to trust those in positions of authority.

They can choose to obey the Church or not.

But if the necessary discipline is not administered, then the shepherds are accountable to God. Those who allow wrongdoing to go on without intervention are held responsible along with the wrongdoer. (1 Cor 5:13-19)

The Deeds of those priests and Bishops were not Catholic.

They were not Christian, you mean.

 

[Etritonakin]

It is important to separate sincere Catholics from the history of the Catholic Church. God does note the difference between what people believe/are taught/are associated with and their own good works -though any misconception can lead to error and lead even the sincere astray.

While I do not agree with some Catholic teachings, whenever I have been in need, Catholics have been there to assist.

The idea comes from the association of that church, as an institution, with human government and putting that relationship before purity before God.. and things such as the Inquisition, the belief that the Popes are all successors of Peter, changing the sabbath commandment to Sunday observance and declaring sabbath-keepers anathema from Christ, associating pagan holidays with the name of Christ rather than keeping God's holy days of the bible, changing other teachings, etc. -depending on who you talk to.

Christ was "officially" executed by the Roman government (though at the request of some Jews of the day), yet somehow those who claimed to have the authority of Christ gained great political power over great empires -beginning with Rome. The problem is that their teachings -though similar at first glance -are very different than what is written in the bible -and they targeted those who kept the commandments of God -especially the sabbath.

The idea is that it was a false church which targeted the true church -the "little flock" -and used the popular name of Christ to gain power.

Some of the differences include the teaching that the spirit of God is a separate third person (trinity doctrine) rather than being the power by which God acts -literally his spirit which he can put within man (In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God -that is two -not three -and the spirit of God moving upon the face of the waters decribes how things were created -not that the spirit of God was a separate third person) -the idea that people go to heaven or hell when they die -rather than the gospel of "the kingdom" where those who die are as asleep until the first resurrection -then reign with Christ on Earth as described in the bible. (The meek shall inherit the earth). Though that is only the beginning of the kingdom.

Christ, the apostles and New Testament church kept the sabbath and holy days of the bible -and those who continued to keep the sabbath would have eventually been labeled "Judaizers" -declared anathema from Christ (Council of Laodicea) -and not treated well -to say the least.

That is believed to be described here..... (Passover and the days of unleavened bread were essentially replaced by Easter. Easter happens to be another spelling of Astarte or Ishtar -chief goddess of the Babylonian mystery religion -and the associated symbols taken from fertility rites, etc.)......

Rev 17:5And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration


Technically, it is considered the harlot that sits astride the beast due to the interrelationship with the human governments described in scripture as the beast that rises from abyss, etc.... However, their relationship is not always pleasant -and it is written that the "beast" will actually destroy the harlot in the end times.

Here are some other associated verses....

Rev 17:9 Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits

(Some believe the above to be a reference to the seven hills of Rome)

Rev 17:15And he said to me, "The waters which you saw where the harlot sits, are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues. 16"And the ten horns which you saw, and the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and will burn her up with fire.17"For God has put it in their hearts to execute His purpose by having a common purpose, and by giving their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God will be fulfilled.…

 

[Pegg]

who is it?

I assume It is the people that call themselves Catholic by name and not by Deed. Yes. Catholicism doesn't enforce the law. Catholics know what they are supposed to do and no one is going to flog them, cut off their hand, behead, or stone them for not being faithful to their duties. Bishops will do as they please without some supernatural force stopping them.

They can choose to obey the Church or not.

The Deeds of those priests and Bishops were not Catholic.

The church do not obey Jesus... they are not practicing what they preach.

Vatican has amassed riches beyond compare. They have supported the wars of their respective nations and have even blessed soldiers entering battle, they have prayed for victory over their catholic neighbors, they are not united, they are not upholding Gods moral standards nor do they promote Gods Word.

Do you really think God is happy with their actions? If you dont 'practice' what you preach, you are a hypocrite according to Jesus.

 

[jeager106]

The silence was`deafening.

How many Catholics were in the 'death' camps for refusing to heil Hitler?

None. The Roman Catholic Church gave protection to Nazis during the war and established safe houses for Nazi war criminals and created the "rat line" to aid Nazi officials that were responsible for murdering Jews. Nazi war criminals were given safety in churchs and Catholic owned property. The Catholic church gave money and trasportation to Nazi war criminals aiding them to escape to South America, mainly Brazil.
The Holy Roman Church supported Hitler through out the war even to the point of ratting out Jews so they could be sent to the death camps.
The Catholic Church supported Nazis from 1932 to 1945 and after the war aided escaping Nazi war criminals.
catholic

Just one of many links exposing the Catholic church in criminal activites.

Ratlines (World War II aftermath) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Church Role AFTER Holocaust

How ironic that thousands and thousands of American and allied soldier that were Catholic died figthing the German War Machine that the Pope supported.

So much for the vindication of Pope Pius XII and the Catholic Church | Israel Commentary

Stangl had been commandant of the Sobibor and Treblinka death camps. Wanted for the murder of nearly a million Jews, he was desperately seeking to escape the clutches of Allied justice. He had come to the right man. Also an Austrian, Bishop Alois Hudal (1885–1963) was rector of the college in Rome known as the “Anima,” a seminary for German-speaking priests.

Stangl was a particularly nasty Nazi and but one of hundreds of murdering Nazis that the Catholic Chruch helped escape allied justice.
The Church could not defend the war criminals from the Jews however.
If the Nazi could not be arrested and trasported back to Europe to face justice the Jews simply killed them in S. America.

 

[JayJayDee]

It was a very ugly period in man's history...but one of many that the Catholic Church was involved with. She has little to be proud of.

 

[Midnight Rain]

Pagan based Religion. Hahaha! Try monotheistic Religion that forbids Idolatry, sorcery, and magic.

If the Catholic Church is Pagan that means there was no Christian Church on the face of the earth until the 16th Century.

It also means the Bible came from a Pagan Religion.

The story of Jesus is a well known story from several other Pagan religions of prior. Its not actually hard to establish that. Horus for example was a pagan god. He and Jesus shared several similarities. There is some dozen other highly similar people, gods or demigods similar to Jesus. The theme that the Catholic church went with isn't separate from pagan influence.

But its a triple monotheistic religion. Even in monotheism it isn't purely monotheistic. There are apologetic arguments of this being like "water, steam and ice" or some such analogy but Hinduism and many pagan religions of the west also have a similar concept that each god and goddess are simply different "faces" of some supreme "all". So they are just as "monotheistic" as Christianity in this sense. Or alternatively Christianity is just as polytheistic.

The Catholic church has outlawed Idolatry but simply substituted symbolism in its place. It functions almost identically. For example when a pagan were to "worship" an Idol they would know that its not actually a god. It represents a god. Similarly Catholicism uses symbols and they don't worship the "symbols" but what the symbols represent. Functionally identical. They even pray to saints to assist them in their plea to god. This is no different than ancestral pleading or even pleaning to gods or goddesses. Functionally identical.

Why did you list sorcery and magic? Are they separate in your mind? One of the surprising things about Catholicism that I found when I first left the Church and began my training in Pagan magic is the similarities between the way the Church worked with sacraments, symbols, candles, prayer and ritual are EXTREMELY similar to magic. However they simply do not call it magic. And if you change the words "magic" as in a personal magic with "faith" then you get the same system. Many of the disciples as well as Jesus was able to heal and do magic er... I mean miracles. Same thing with King Solomon. He also worked with casting out demons and preformed a sort of magic. What was actually outlawed were pagan practices of magic in name and similar if not identical versions were replaced in the name of Jesus.

And to end it all holidays are pagan holidays in Christianity. We even have saints that were never members of the Church but actual Pagan Goddesses. (Saint Bridget for example)

So this is what we mean when we say Christianity is a pagan religion. In reality I wouldn't actually call it a Pagan religion but I would say it has fundamental roots in Paganism which is to be expected.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Secular humanism wasn't to blame for the RCC turning its collective back on the innocent kids who were abused by clergy, for decades.

... or enslaving countless women in Magdalene laundries.

... or stealing and selling babies on an industrial scale in Catholic hospitals in Spain.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Keep your pants on.

I do not live in America or England and I am also 28 years young and did not grow up in a abrahamic religion so keep that in mind.

I do know that there has been conflict between the two based on what the religious laws and that are but I cannot say I have heard it referred to as anti christ like. You know how I found out about that? A kids show. We were never taught that in school and I had not come across the roots of the conflict in any literature.

The Westminster Confession of Faith (which is a foundational document for the Anglican Church as well as most other Protestant denominations that came out of England) declares the Pope to be the Antichrist. It's not surprising that you didn't hear this, since most of these denominations downplay this aspect of their doctrines these days.

 

[Deidre]

"Do as we say not as we do."
~ said every Pope to his flock

Sad stuff.

... or enslaving countless women in Magdalene laundries.

... or stealing and selling babies on an industrial scale in Catholic hospitals in Spain.

 

[dgirl1986]

No it was not. It's a pagan based religion.

I dont think it is pagan based, all religions have common themes. They did, however, make their holidays the same time as pagan holidays to enable easier conversion.

 

[dgirl1986]

Jehovah says: "This people approaches me with their mouth
And they honor me with their lips,
But their heart is far removed from me;
And their fear of me is based on commands of men that they have been taught.
-----
How you twist things! (or "How perverse of you!")
Should the potter be regarded the same as the clay?
- Isaiah 29:13,16a

The first religion of man is one that was approved by God in the Garden of Eden. Man has taken it upon himself to define reality by a different set of rules.

There has been evidence and recordings for religions of old, but not of this "original" religion you speak of nor the existence of such people.

It was my understand that many think the creation story to be symbolic rather than literal.