The big Bad Catholic Church

[Kolibri]

Most people (including yourself) are "willful sinners." So, what's your point? That we should kick all the sinners out of the hospital Jesus has provided for them? Where's the precious scriptural injunction against the sick being in the hospital?

1 Corinthians 5:9-13 is no longer valid?

There was no "written word" in the church for a long, long time. Stop idolizing a human document that wasn't even conceived by the original apostles.

Ah that is the issue. Not a bible-based form of worship. Bible is invalidated by Holy Tradition. There we lose our common ground.

 

[Kolibri]

"The Spirit has explicitly said that during the last times some will desert the faith and pay attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines that come from devils, seduced by the hypocrisy of liars whose consciences are branded as though with a red-hot iron: they forbid marriage and prohibit foods which God created to be accepted with thanksgiving by all who believe and who know the truth. Everything God has created is good, and no food is to be rejected, provided it is received with thanksgiving: the word of God and prayer make it holy. If you put all this to the brothers, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus and show that you have really digested the teaching of the faith and the good doctrine which you have always followed. Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives' tales. Train yourself for religion." - 1 Timothy 4:1-7 Jerusalem Bible

 

[sojourner]

1 Corinthians 5:9-13 is no longer valid?

That letter was written to a particular congregation in a particular circumstance. It's not that it's "invalid," so much as that it's simply not applicable to most of us in terms of being a specific directive.

Ah that is the issue. Not a bible-based form of worship. Bible is invalidated by Holy Tradition. There we lose our common ground.

Again: not "invalidated," but simply "not applicable." There is no such thing as "bible-based form of worship." By the time the bible was written, worship had already been going on for quite some time.

 

[sojourner]

"The Spirit has explicitly said that during the last times some will desert the faith and pay attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines that come from devils, seduced by the hypocrisy of liars whose consciences are branded as though with a red-hot iron: they forbid marriage and prohibit foods which God created to be accepted with thanksgiving by all who believe and who know the truth. Everything God has created is good, and no food is to be rejected, provided it is received with thanksgiving: the word of God and prayer make it holy. If you put all this to the brothers, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus and show that you have really digested the teaching of the faith and the good doctrine which you have always followed. Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives' tales. Train yourself for religion." - 1 Timothy 4:1-7 Jerusalem Bible

Your point?

 

[sojourner]

It is also good to remember, that the Catholic church traditionally has held extremist views in terms of theology.

That's laughable. The RCC is notoriously conservative, if anything.

 

[Kolibri]

Your point?

I find it ironic that this passage is so firm in the a Catholic bible is all. It is much harsher in the way to reads than in the the NWT. And yet it is well-known that there is a teaching of celibacy among the priests and lent is another tradition that limits food consumption during a certain part of the year. But as you have said, the Bible is mostly non-applicable to the catholic form of worship - so we should not compare the two and leave it at that. Unless I am miss-hearing you.

 

[sojourner]

I find it ironic that this passage is so firm in the a Catholic bible is all. It is much harsher in the way to reads than in the the NWT. And yet it is well-known that there is a teaching of celibacy among the priests and lent is another tradition that limits food consumption during a certain part of the year. But as you have said, the Bible is mostly non-applicable to the catholic form of worship - so we should not compare the two and leave it at that. Unless I am miss-hearing you.

The bible is mostly non-applicable to any form of worship -- even JW. Why do you insist on taking passages out of context and trying to make them into some kind of universal directive, applicable at all times, in all places, and for all circumstances? Especially passages in documents with a very specific intended audience?

 

[Kolibri]

Our understanding of the Bible may be different from other peoples that believe in the Christ but as The Encyclopedia of Religion describes us we base our beliefs on “the authority of the Bible, which entirely supplants tradition.”

Not saying we don't have traditions, but we reject them when they are found to be out of harmony with scripture - for us the Bible is the final authority.

Where you suggest that the directives given to the Corinthians was just for them, we recognize it as binding on all Christians. You are correct that some things were binding to a specific people, such as the Law given thru Moses to the Jews till the death of our Christ, but other things are binding on all, such as the dietary restriction on blood given to Noah is confirmed be still in effect by the directive sent out to all the congregations in Acts 15.

 

[JayJayDee]

I find it stranger that you seem to feel that "getting stuck in ancient dogma" isn't a "good place to be," but you dismiss ongoing revelation. Interesting choice of hypocrisy on your part.

Hypocrisy? What hypocrisy? "Ongoing revelation" should indeed be part of our faith but the revelation cannot be out of harmony with the rest of God's word. Do you agree?

Catholicism teaches doctrines that originate outside of the Bible. In fact most of them can be traced straight back to ancient Babylon.

The veneration (worship) of Mary, for example, is nothing new.
Ancient mother worship was the forerunner of Madonna and child. It began with Semiramis and her son Nimrod (Noah's great grandson) who became, not only the first post-flood rebel, but also the first deified human. He built the city of Babel after the flood in defiance of God's command.
After his death, when Nimrod was placed among the gods, his mother Semiramis then assumed the title "Mother of God". She also had the title "Queen of Heaven" and "Our Lady".
All the titles that gravitated to Mary were originally used for this false mother goddess.

This is the Egyptian version.
Note the sun symbol on Isis' headdress.

The Asian version.....
and a whole bunch of others from around the world...if they pre-date Christianity then who borrowed from whom?

Have you seen the Babylonian sun wheel in St Peter's Square?

Sun worship is alive and well in Roman Catholicism. Constantine made sure of it. Most people don't see it....or don't want to.

When you are raised to believe these things are Christian, you don't question them. The Pharisees too relied on their antiquity to convince and retain their followers, whom they led away from God's son...not to him.

These images are posted in the hope of getting you to see through this apostate church's pagan teachings and to see with your own eyes what you are putting your faith in.

Please don't close your mind. Jesus foretold this.

 

[sojourner]

Hypocrisy? What hypocrisy? "Ongoing revelation" should indeed be part of our faith but the revelation cannot be out of harmony with the rest of God's word. Do you agree?

Catholicism teaches doctrines that originate outside of the Bible. In fact most of them can be traced straight back to ancient Babylon.

The veneration (worship) of Mary, for example, is nothing new.
Ancient mother worship was the forerunner of Madonna and child. It began with Semiramis and her son Nimrod (Noah's great grandson) who became, not only the first post-flood rebel, but also the first deified human. He built the city of Babel after the flood in defiance of God's command.
After his death, when Nimrod was placed among the gods, his mother Semiramis then assumed the title "Mother of God". She also had the title "Queen of Heaven" and "Our Lady".
All the titles that gravitated to Mary were originally used for this false mother goddess.

This is the Egyptian version.
Note the sun symbol on Isis' headdress.

The Asian version.....
and a whole bunch of others from around the world...if they pre-date Christianity then who borrowed from whom?

Have you seen the Babylonian sun wheel in St Peter's Square?

Sun worship is alive and well in Roman Catholicism. Constantine made sure of it. Most people don't see it....or don't want to.

When you are raised to believe these things are Christian, you don't question them. The Pharisees too relied on their antiquity to convince and retain their followers, whom they led away from God's son...not to him.

These images are posted in the hope of getting you to see through this apostate church's pagan teachings and to see with your own eyes what you are putting your faith in.

Please don't close your mind. Jesus foretold this.

Oh, gee! Universal symbology and a mythos that speaks to something universal in the human psyche. What an eeeeeviiiiiil thing!

Please don't try to "save" me or proselytize me. Unlike some, I'm not afraid of symbols and don't see other religions as inherently evil.

 

[sojourner]

as The Encyclopedia of Religion describes us we base our beliefs on “the authority of the Bible, which entirely supplants tradition.”

So? That's supposed to impress me in some way? The bible is part of tradition -- not above it.

 

[sojourner]

Not saying we don't have traditions, but we reject them when they are found to be out of harmony with scripture - for us the Bible is the final authority.

For many, Christ is the final authority.

Where you suggest that the directives given to the Corinthians was just for them, we recognize it as binding on all Christians. You are correct that some things were binding to a specific people, such as the Law given thru Moses to the Jews till the death of our Christ, but other things are binding on all, such as the dietary restriction on blood given to Noah is confirmed be still in effect by the directive sent out to all the congregations in Acts 15.

Too great a dependence on "directives" leads to an overly-pietistic theology, IMO.

 

[JayJayDee]

Oh, gee! Universal symbology and a mythos that speaks to something universal in the human psyche. What an eeeeeviiiiiil thing!

Please don't try to "save" me or proselytize me. Unlike some, I'm not afraid of symbols and don't see other religions as inherently evil.

OK. I tried.

 

[psychoslice]

To me, all churches are big and bad, they are all organized with dogma and fundamentalist garbage, the only true church is found within you, nowhere else.

 

[sojourner]

To me, all churches are big and bad, they are all organized with dogma and fundamentalist garbage, the only true church is found within you, nowhere else.

Mine's located in my duodenum...