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Featured The Bible says Jesus is God

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Teritos, Feb 25, 2021.

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  1. Teritos

    Teritos Active Member

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    Jesus, the Creator of ALL things
    John 1:3+10
    All things were made through him, and without him, nothing was made that has been made.
    He was in the world, and the world was made through him, and the world didn’t recognize him.

    Romans 11:36
    For by him, and through him, and for him are all things. To him be the glory for ever! Amen.

    Colossians 1:16-17
    For by him all things were created in the heavens and on the earth, visible things and invisible things. All things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things are held together.


    If Jesus is not God, did he create himself? Did God create himself?
     
  2. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    none of these uses the name jesus for a reason. Jesus said you are all gods but that doesn't make you all GOD absolute. it makes you a corpuscle in the body of god.

    colossians 3:11
     
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  3. Left Coast

    Left Coast Happy Spring!
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    Welcome to the forum!

    Why do you believe what the Bible says about Jesus?
     
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  4. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    If the Son is God, then who is the Father?
     
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  5. Teritos

    Teritos Active Member

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    It is personal faith.
     
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  6. Left Coast

    Left Coast Happy Spring!
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    It's like a supernatural Maury episode! :tearsofjoy:
     
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  7. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My baby niece

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    I've heard a few times from a christian that jesus is the father and another (or the same) said he is also the creator.
     
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  8. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My baby niece

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    All things were made "through" him and without him nothing has been made (so jesus is an tool or vehicle of creation not the creator.)

    Through is an important word in this case. If water runs through a pipe that doesn't mean the pipe is the water and it also doesn't mean the source of where the water came from is also the pipe.

    Through...

    Through is a preposition (expressing a relation to another word or element). There is no Is so no, jesus isn't god just god working through jesus in which all things were made.
     
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  9. Teritos

    Teritos Active Member

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    Why can't God be Father and Son? God's nature is complicated, but He has revealed Himself as Father and Son. One might also ask, can Almighty God create a stone that He cannot carry? Such questions are difficult to answer.


    Proverbs 30:4
    Who has ascended up into heaven, and descended?
    Who has gathered the wind in his fists?
    Who has bound the waters in his garment?
    Who has established all the ends of the earth?
    What is his name, and what is his son’s name, if you know?
     
  10. Teritos

    Teritos Active Member

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    "and without him, nothing was made that has been made"
    Jesus created himself?
    Not only "through him" but also "by him"
    Don't ignore it.
     
  11. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    Was Adam God's son?
     
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  12. Teritos

    Teritos Active Member

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    Define "God's Son" in relation to Adam.
     
  13. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My baby niece

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    In hebrews it says the son (not the father) is an human incarnation. In trinitarian view, the incarnation and the source of it is the same. From a non-trinitarian perspective, a human isn't a creator. I'd probably side with you in logic if Jews believed the same-a human can be a creator-but since they don't, I don't see jesus going way off the laws of Moses when he quoted them for others to follow.

    By: jesus not by the creator.

    Through jesus and by jesus not through jesus and by the creator.

    Through him/christ and by him/christ in which all things were made. It's talking about the creator working through and by his son not himself.
     
  14. Teritos

    Teritos Active Member

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    Isaiah 44:24
    Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: It is I, the LORD, who worketh all things, who stretched out the heavens, I alone, spread out the earth THROUGH MYSELF.
     
  15. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    This is what a Greek friend told me. The Word is the template for creation. So God created the Word through which the universe came to exist. However God is not the Word, through the Word of God, the tetragrammaton the universe was created. Jesus is the Son, in the sense Jesus that Jesus is the fulfillment of the Word. The "perfect" human the universe was created to produce.

    So God the Father manifested the Word which manifested the Son. According to him the English translation confused this to make it seem they were one in the same.

    Jesus was the first born son of all creation. The rest of us to follow as the universe, the actualization of the Word, perfects our souls as well.

    Not saying he is correct but probably closer than what we can understand using an English translation.
     
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  16. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My baby niece

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    No need for bold and caps.

    23Sing for joy, O heavens, for the LORD has done this; shout aloud, O depths of the earth. Break forth in song, O mountains, you forests and all your trees. For the LORD has redeemed Jacob, and revealed His glory in Israel. 24Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer who formed you from the womb: “I am the LORD, who has made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who by Myself spread out the earth, 25who foils the signs of false prophets and makes fools of diviners, who confounds the wise and turns their knowledge into nonsense,…

    Jesus redeemed jacob??

    The redeemer before the gospels was the creator. In the gospels, the redeemer is christ. The gospels made it to where the creator sent his son (not himself) to be the redeemer who, who represents god (not is god) so that through jesus and by jesus all things are made by dictation of his/jesus' creator.
     
  17. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    Through God, Adam came to be. In the sense of humans, this is a father/child relationship.

    As in the third definition of son.
    3: a person closely associated with or deriving from a formative agent (such as a nation, school, or race)
     
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  18. Teritos

    Teritos Active Member

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    God created his own Word? Was God mute before that? Was God sick?
    How can God not be his own Word If his Word is the breath of his mouth?
     
  19. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My baby niece

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    Gosh, all that is a tongue twister. I actually thing it's pretty easy to understand going by English translation, though. In my opinion, since there are so many views on trinitarianism, it sounds more like what people want it to be.
     
  20. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Well-Known Member

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    How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
     
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