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The Bible, Not As Original As You'd Think

sooda

Veteran Member
Besides the science already posted we know them to be myth because the flood myths are some of the oldest known stories created by man. A deity sending a flood to destroy humans goes all the way back to African religions.
Flood myths are right up there with Roswell and Big Foot.

"A flood myth or deluge myth is a narrative in which a great flood, usually sent by a deity or deities, destroys civilization, often in an act of divine retribution. Parallels are often drawn between the flood waters of these myths and the primaeval waters found in certain creation myths, as the flood waters are described as a measure for the cleansing of humanity, in preparation for rebirth. Most flood myths also contain a culture hero, who "represents the human craving for life".[1]

The flood myth motif is found among many cultures as seen in the Mesopotamian flood stories, Deucalion and Pyrrha in Greek mythology, the Genesis flood narrative, Pralaya in Hinduism, the Gun-Yu in Chinese mythology, Bergelmir in Norse mythology, in the lore of the K'iche' and Maya peoples in Mesoamerica, the Lac Courte Oreilles Ojibwa tribe of Native Americans in North America, the Muisca, and Cañari Confederation, in South America, and the Aboriginal tribes in southern Australia.

Though the account of Noah in the Hebrew Bible has long been the most studied flood story by scholars, in the 19th century Assyriologist George Smith translated the first Babylonian account of a great flood. Further discoveries produced several versions of the Mesopotamian flood myth, with the account closest to that in Genesis found in a 700 BC Babylonian copy of the Epic of Gilgamesh.[2]:20-27 The known versions of the Mesopotamian flood myths have as their protagonists Atrahasis (in the 18th century BC Atrahasis Epic), Ziusudra (in the 17th century BC Sumerian Flood Story), and Utnapishtim (in the 7th century BC Epic of Gilgamesh).[3] The Sumerian King List relies on the flood motif to divide its history into preflood (antediluvian) and postflood periods. The preflood kings had enormous lifespans, whereas postflood lifespans were much reduced. The Sumerian flood myth found in the Deluge tablet was the epic of Ziusudra, who heard the gods' plan to destroy humanity, in response to which he constructed a vessel that delivered him from great waters.[4] In the more detailed Mesopotamian accounts of the flood, the Gilgamesh flood myth and the epic of Atrahasis, the highest god Enlil decides to destroy the world with a flood because humans have become too noisy.[3] The god Ea, who created humans out of clay and divine blood, secretly warns the hero Utnapishtim of the impending flood and gives him detailed instructions for building a boat so that life may survive.[3][5]"

Africa
Many African cultures have an oral tradition of a flood including the Kwaya, Mbuti, Maasai, Mandin, and Yoruba peoples.[1]
India

The Matsya avatar comes to the rescue of Manu
  • Manu and Matsya: The legend first appears in Shatapatha Brahmana (700–300 BCE), and is further detailed in Matsya Purana (250–500 CE). Matsya (the incarnation of Lord Vishnu as a fish) forewarns Manu (a human) about an impending catastrophic flood and orders him to collect all the grains of the world in a boat; in some forms of the story, all living creatures are also to be preserved in the boat. When the flood destroys the world, Manu – in some versions accompanied by the seven great sages – survives by boarding the ark, which Matsya pulls to safety.
  • Puluga, the creator god in the religion of the indigenous inhabitants of the Andaman Islands, sends a devastating flood to punish people who have forgotten his commands. Only four people survive this flood: two men and two women.


List of flood myths - Wikipedia


Flood myth - Wikipedia

Thanks....
 

Prestor John

Well-Known Member
In that myth Horus wasn't the dying/rising god, it was Osiris.
There are never reproductions between pagan myths, each one is different.

PhD R. Carrier
"Every single one of those beliefs was different from every other. The differences are what establish them as different gods, and not just revamped versions of the same god. The differences are irrelevant. Cultural diffusion and syncretism by definition always produces differences between the originating, existing beliefs and the resulting, new beliefs. So it is illogical to argue that because God A is “different” from God B, that therefore God B’s mythology was not adapted from God A’s. To the contrary, ideas that are witnessed as pervasive (many different kinds of virgin births; many different kinds of resurrections) are seen as bearing a cultural commonality (“a” virgin birth; “a” resurrection), and that commonality is then adapted to a specific belief system, creating a new religion. The process always involves transformation: the creation of differences. Those differences are what is brought by the native, adopting culture, and then added, to transform the adopted culture."

But they are all part of a savior god mytheme and a sub-mytheme is the dying/rising god



"Not all these savior gods were dying-and-rising gods. That was a sub-mytheme. Indeed, dying-and-rising gods (and mere men) were a broader mytheme; because examples abounded even outside the context of known savior cults (I’ll give you a nearly complete list below). But within the savior cults, a particular brand of dying-and-rising god arose. And Jesus most closely corresponds to that mythotype.

Other savior gods within this context experienced “passions” that did not involve a death. For instance, Mithras underwent some great suffering and struggle (we don’t have many details), through which he acquired his power over death that he then shares with initiates in his cult, but we’re pretty sure it wasn’t a death. Mentions of resurrection as a teaching in Mithraism appear to have been about the future fate of his followers (in accordance with the Persian Zoroastrian notion of a general resurrection later borrowed by the Jews). So all those internet memes listing Mithras as a dying-and-rising god? Not true. So do please stop repeating that claim. Likewise, so far as we can tell Attis didn’t become a rising god until well after Christianity began (and even then his myth only barely equated to a resurrection; previous authors have over-interpreted evidence to the contrary). Most others, however, we have pretty solid evidence for as actually dying, and actually rising savior gods."


Article and sources:
Dying-and-Rising Gods: It's Pagan, Guys. Get Over It. • Richard Carrier
The idea of a God descending to save Mankind has been had from Adam.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
When the flood happened as shown in the images that are here:
http://www.kolumbus.fi/r.berg/geology.html

It happened when the original single continent was broken and sunk. Results of that are:
1. Modern continents
2. Orogenic mountains
3. Vast sediment formations (For example Grand Canyon)
4. Marine fossils on high mountains
5. Oil and gas fields (results of the dead organic material).
6. Great glaciers (North and South pole). Climate cooled because of the flood, result was ice age.
7. All the stories about great flood.

All those should be found, if the flood really happened and I think we can agree that all those can be found in nature?

Biblical Geology has gone to a lot of trouble to deceive you.

Are you a disciple of Jesus?

There were no "fountains of the deep"... Snowmelt from the Zagros Mountains caused the Tigris and Euphrates rivers to rise and spill out of their banks.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
...Do you have any idea of how much ignorance is required to buy such a story?
.

Actually, no ignorance needed, it only requires that person is no gullible and don’t blindly believe everything that is claimed in the name of science. :)
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Those 'main ideas', being what?

Just write them, a list of the main ideas

The Hebrews had no creation story or national narrative until after the Babylonian exile. Further, there is a major problem with Genesis. There were cities in Mesopotamia before Cain killed Abel. .. and they weren't destroyed by a global flood.

See Ubaid period civilization (c. 6500–3800 BC)
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Please tell, why should I believe you?

NO fountains of the deep.. just spring snowmelt from the Zagros Mountains.

Here's an example of "Bible Geology"..

Are you a disciple of Jesus?


Picture 3: When the water came out the earth over it collapsed. The collapse may have been relatively slow and many caves could still have remained. It all made new land formations, mountains and maybe even the area of Atlantic Ocean was formed during that event. And in that event also many animals and plants were drowned and washed to cavities that remained below earth. And eventually they caused for example oil fields.
 
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sooda

Veteran Member
The Noah's Ark myth was rather obviously copied from the Epic of Gilgamesh:

Epic of Gilgamesh - Wikipedia
It is older than the Noah's Ark myth.

And of course all of the sciences tell us why there was no flood. The evidence against the flood of Noah is so strong that people who claim that it is true are also claiming that their God is a liar, though most do not realize that.

Here's an example of what the creationists are calling Biblical Geology:

Picture 3: When the water came out the earth over it collapsed. The collapse may have been relatively slow and many caves could still have remained.

It all made new land formations, mountains and maybe even the area of Atlantic Ocean was formed during that event. And in that event also many animals and plants were drowned and washed to cavities that remained below earth. And eventually they caused for example oil fields.

Are you a disciple of Jesus?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Actually, no ignorance needed, it only requires that person is no gullible and don’t blindly believe everything that is claimed in the name of science. :)
If one believes the flood myth than one is both ignorant and gullible. But there is a cure. It does not take too much knowledge of the sciences to see one's errors.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
If one believes the flood myth than one is both ignorant and gullible. But there is a cure. It does not take too much knowledge of the sciences to see one's errors.

I want to hear a creationist explain Gobleki Tepe or Catalhoyuk.

We are also told that after the murder of Abel, Cain went to Nod, married and named his city after his firstborn son, Enoch.

Ancient linguistics have shown that the city of Uruk, in Iraq, is the same word as Enoch, etymologically speaking.

The name of the city “Enoch” may have become known as the city of Uruk or Ereck that is recorded in the cuneiform tablets from Assyria.

The “N” sound is often reproduced by the “R” sound and the “CH” sound can become a “K”, “G” or “GH” sound.

map_erech.jpg


The Ubaid Period (c. 5000-4100 BCE) when the so-called Ubaid people first inhabited the region of Sumer is followed by the Uruk Period (4100-2900 BCE)
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Please show me where I said "There were no 'fountains of the deep' ."

.

Fountains of the deep is poetic language... The flood in the Euphrates River basin was caused by snowmelt from the mountains and spring rains.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
God did not condemn Man.

Man condemned Man according to the plan of God.
Nope, you can't have it both ways. If God is omnipotent and omniscient the ultimate blame is upon him. If you want to claim that your God is incompetent you might have a valid claim, but he still looks like a fool for the action that he took. If you remember the myth God screwed the pooch because he forgot to gave man the ability to know right from wrong. That was the knowledge given to them by the tree that they were forbidden to eat from. As soon as they ate from it they knew how they screwed up. There is no way out of this. Plus the whole story makes no sense at all when one looks at it without emotional attachment. God made man without the knowledge of right and wrong. He puts the tree that would give them that knowledge in the Garden of Eden. Why did he do that if they were not to eat from that tree. He created and allowed the serpent, whether Satan or controlled by Satan, or just a snake, it does not really matter. He created and allowed that snake with its abilities into the Garden. That being convince Eve who convinced Adam. By the way, the Serpent was the only one that told the truth in that story. So why did God make Adam without this knowledge? Why did he put the tree in the garden? Why did he allow the snake in the garden? And then when they failed, which he should have known, why did he punish them for his own incompetence?

The Garden of Eden myth paints God as an incompetent and immoral creator. He screws up his creation and then blames his creation rather than himself.
 
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Skwim

Veteran Member
God did not condemn Man.

Man condemned Man according to the plan of God.
Playing with words like this is rather childish don't you think? Comments like;

"The judge didn't sentence him to life in prison, He sentenced himself when he killed his wife."
is what those unable to face the truth do. They try to shift the responsibility away from the acting party (in this case, the one who created the actual sentence) and onto someone else.



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