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The Bahaí converting?

Riders

Well-Known Member
Well we went to the second book of the faith in the study last night. I´ḿ thinking about dropping out. thought it was on teaching the children and teens the faith.

It was partly but it was also about talking to your family members and teaching friends and neighbors in the community. I said "what is this ya all are converting people because your religion is the best?¨


They said no we don convert people, we just believe in the laws of God we have already studied that it can be shared with the community about community and how to improve our world with folks from other religions. We can talk together on our faith without converting and just teaching what we learned.

Before it was through I was getting a creepy feeling that they wanted me to convert people although they won´t word it that way. Perhaps I am wrong. Do the Bahaís here want to weigh in on this?
 

Sirona

Hindu Wannabe
If you follow the discussions with Baha'is on this forum, you may probably notice that quite a few (non-Baha'i) members here feel like being preached to. You may also notice that the Baha'i claim of respecting all religions doesn't stand scrutiny. After a while, most of them will admit that they believe all religions but their own are "outdated" and should be replaced by the Baha'i faith and their prospective world government.
 
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Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member

Before it was through I was getting a creepy feeling that they wanted me to convert people although they won´t word it that way. Perhaps I am wrong. Do the Bahaís here want to weigh in on this?

In many proselytising faiths, and that includes Baha'i, it is definitely part of the teaching that it's sacred duty to spread the word. They're just practicing their religion by doing that. But you don't need to join if you don't feel like it.

The fact that this forum has a disproportionate number of Baha'i on it is an indicator.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Well we went to the second book of the faith in the study last night. I´ḿ thinking about dropping out. thought it was on teaching the children and teens the faith.

It was partly but it was also about talking to your family members and teaching friends and neighbors in the community. I said "what is this ya all are converting people because your religion is the best?¨


They said no we don convert people, we just believe in the laws of God we have already studied that it can be shared with the community about community and how to improve our world with folks from other religions. We can talk together on our faith without converting and just teaching what we learned.

Before it was through I was getting a creepy feeling that they wanted me to convert people although they won´t word it that way. Perhaps I am wrong. Do the Bahaís here want to weigh in on this?

The Rhui course was developed for a Baha'i deepening aid. In many 3rd world uses, it became a teaching aid.

It was then used by many to be the forerunner of a course for community building activities, which involves the teaching of a virtue based program to children and youth so they get to choose how they want to serve the community.

The material is changing to reflect how it is now used. There is a couple of new books out that are more generic.

Riders, If you are uncomfortable attending, then I advise you do not go.

There are many youth in Australia that are not Baha'is, that use this material to help others. The focus is definitely not on conversion, it is on participation.

Personally I would add that I do not like using the Rhui course for the very reason you have mentioned.

I did give the books to a local minister to see if He would like to implement the course. He noted it was too Baha'i focused, which is what it was designed for, to deepen Baha'i.

Regards Tony
 
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Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Well we went to the second book of the faith in the study last night. I´ḿ thinking about dropping out. thought it was on teaching the children and teens the faith.

It was partly but it was also about talking to your family members and teaching friends and neighbors in the community. I said "what is this ya all are converting people because your religion is the best?¨


They said no we don convert people, we just believe in the laws of God we have already studied that it can be shared with the community about community and how to improve our world with folks from other religions. We can talk together on our faith without converting and just teaching what we learned.

Before it was through I was getting a creepy feeling that they wanted me to convert people although they won´t word it that way. Perhaps I am wrong. Do the Bahaís here want to weigh in on this?

I suspect your conversion is more hoped for than insisted on.
Yes, they hope you see the truth but won't condemn you to hell if you don't.
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
Well we went to the second book of the faith in the study last night. I´ḿ thinking about dropping out. thought it was on teaching the children and teens the faith.

It was partly but it was also about talking to your family members and teaching friends and neighbors in the community. I said "what is this ya all are converting people because your religion is the best?¨


They said no we don convert people, we just believe in the laws of God we have already studied that it can be shared with the community about community and how to improve our world with folks from other religions. We can talk together on our faith without converting and just teaching what we learned.

Before it was through I was getting a creepy feeling that they wanted me to convert people although they won´t word it that way. Perhaps I am wrong. Do the Bahaís here want to weigh in on this?
As a Bahai, I have never seen any Bahai converting someone. But I have seen people could get the feeling the intention is converting.

I think the Bahai teachings are so logical, attractive and nice, that gives stimulation to people.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Well we went to the second book of the faith in the study last night. I´ḿ thinking about dropping out. thought it was on teaching the children and teens the faith.

It was partly but it was also about talking to your family members and teaching friends and neighbors in the community. I said "what is this ya all are converting people because your religion is the best?¨


They said no we don convert people, we just believe in the laws of God we have already studied that it can be shared with the community about community and how to improve our world with folks from other religions. We can talk together on our faith without converting and just teaching what we learned.

Before it was through I was getting a creepy feeling that they wanted me to convert people although they won´t word it that way. Perhaps I am wrong. Do the Bahaís here want to weigh in on this?

Teaching teens and children faith doesn't sound like evangelism but education. Do they mean indoctrinate (tell teens that that their religion is the only basis of truth--everything is interpreted through Bahullah)?

A universalist religion wouldn't have a common denominator of truth. Are there other reasons you may want to drop out?
 

Riders

Well-Known Member
It is in part for children and youth but they also use the teaching to teach their community and neighbors and talk to people about Bahaí beliefs but they say they do it in a way that they don't convert. They did suggest to me to start talking to my family and I let them know quickly my family is off limits and would not be interested anyway and I don't know anyone.

They said since I got ideas from Universalists who practice both Bahai and Unitarianism they said I should talk to people here and get someone interested and that they could join the conversation and take over for me. But they say it's not converting itś just talking to people. I haven't decided anything yet but make no mistake about it, I aint talking to no one. That's not my personality. I am a Universalist.Live and let live.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Well we went to the second book of the faith in the study last night. I´ḿ thinking about dropping out. thought it was on teaching the children and teens the faith.

It was partly but it was also about talking to your family members and teaching friends and neighbors in the community. I said "what is this ya all are converting people because your religion is the best?¨

They said no we don convert people, we just believe in the laws of God we have already studied that it can be shared with the community about community and how to improve our world with folks from other religions. We can talk together on our faith without converting and just teaching what we learned.

Before it was through I was getting a creepy feeling that they wanted me to convert people although they won´t word it that way. Perhaps I am wrong. Do the Bahaís here want to weigh in on this?
I am not involved in my Baha'i community and haven't been involved for years, and now since Covid-19, all their meetings are on Zoom so I could not attend activities even of I wanted to.

It is not that I do not "like" the Baha'is, so why I do not attend is all about me. For one thing, I have never been very social and I do not like groups, and for another thing I do not feel like I have much in common with the other Baha'is since to be quite frank, I do not like or trust God that much. I believe that Baha'u'llah was the Manifestation of God for this age and that God exists, that's why I am a Baha'i. I cannot disbelieve in Bahaullah because of the evidence, as I am all about evidence, not emotions. If i followed my emotions I would have dropped out of the Baha'i Faith a long, long time ago.

As for Baha'i teaching activities, I have no idea how the Baha'is go about those, except on the forums I have been on, mainly this forum, and on RF I see many different attitudes and behaviors of various Bahais since we all have different personalities. I try to follow what Baha'u'llah has enjoined us to do, and I may as well tell you what that is so you and everyone else reading on this thread will know what that is:

“Consort with all men, O people of Bahá, in a spirit of friendliness and fellowship. If ye be aware of a certain truth, if ye possess a jewel, of which others are deprived, share it with them in a language of utmost kindliness and good-will. If it be accepted, if it fulfil its purpose, your object is attained. If anyone should refuse it, leave him unto himself, and beseech God to guide him. Beware lest ye deal unkindly with him. A kindly tongue is the lodestone of the hearts of men. It is the bread of the spirit, it clotheth the words with meaning, it is the fountain of the light of wisdom and understanding….” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 289

“Through each and every one of the verses which the Pen of the Most High hath revealed, the doors of love and unity have been unlocked and flung open to the face of men. We have erewhile declared—and Our Word is the truth—: “Consort with the followers of all religions in a spirit of friendliness and fellowship.” Whatsoever hath led the children of men to shun one another, and hath caused dissensions and divisions amongst them, hath, through the revelation of these words, been nullified and abolished. From the heaven of God’s Will, and for the purpose of ennobling the world of being and of elevating the minds and souls of men, hath been sent down that which is the most effective instrument for the education of the whole human race.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 95


“The second Taráz is to consort with the followers of all religions in a spirit of friendliness and fellowship, to proclaim that which the Speaker on Sinai hath set forth and to observe fairness in all matters.

They that are endued with sincerity and faithfulness should associate with all the peoples and kindreds of the earth with joy and radiance, inasmuch as consorting with people hath promoted and will continue to promote unity and concord, which in turn are conducive to the maintenance of order in the world and to the regeneration of nations. Blessed are such as hold fast to the cord of kindliness and tender mercy and are free from animosity and hatred.” Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 35-36


I never ran with the crowd. I have always been a free spirit and a Trailblazer, so I never pattern my behavior after what other Baha'is do. I also do not care what non-Baha'is on this forum "believe" my motives are because I have good personal boundaries, so I well know what my motives are, adn what they are not.

When I first came to RF it might have been different, I might have wanted to share the Baha'i Faith a lot, but I have changed a lot in three years. Now I am not mainly on RF to talk about Baha'u'llah or the Baha'i Faith, but I will talk about it if it comes up in a thread or if someone asks me point blank what the evidence is for Baha'u'llah, or why I believe in God. I will also engage in dialogues with other religious people, mainly Christians, but only if they want to engage in dialogues with me.

It is not as if I look for people to post to about Baha'i, I normally only respond to posts posted to me or I respond when someone starts a thread about the Baha'i Faith, as you did. I feel an obligation to respond and explain the Baha'i position, because I am a Baha'i. I also feel an obligation to defend Baha'u'llah or the Bahai Faith, if I see false information being posted about it. I have been a Baha'i for 50 years so I think I am qualified to correct false information posted by people who know very little or who have been misinformed.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
The fact that this forum has a disproportionate number of Baha'i on it is an indicator.
An indicator of what?

Funny thing, I see a lot more Christians and Hindus on this forum, and as many Muslims and Jewish posters as there are Baha'is. Moreover, of all the Baha'is that belong to this forum there are only about four of us who regularly post about the Faith. Compare that to the number of Christians regularly posting here. ;)
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
It is in part for children and youth but they also use the teaching to teach their community and neighbors and talk to people about Bahaí beliefs but they say they do it in a way that they don't convert. They did suggest to me to start talking to my family and I let them know quickly my family is off limits and would not be interested anyway and I don't know anyone.

They said since I got ideas from Universalists who practice both Bahai and Unitarianism they said I should talk to people here and get someone interested and that they could join the conversation and take over for me. But they say it's not converting itś just talking to people. I haven't decided anything yet but make no mistake about it, I aint talking to no one. That's not my personality. I am a Universalist.Live and let live.

I do have another question for you (if you can quote or @name please). Do they suggest that you use scripture when educating people about the bahai faith? Is it heavy scripture focused?

I only seen scripture-people from protestant christians but I never knew it was heavy in bahai till RF. It's not bad in itself, but if it doesn't have context such as education, I'd say that's a bit off in my opinion. But all in all, if you got a bug in your gut, I'd either wait and discern what you actually believe or, if push comes to shove, stay friends but let them know you're not interested.

Unless they only talk to you to educate you about bahai, if that's what you need to do at least keep contact with the friends you have. You'll know the difference if they call you to worship or study compared to going to the movies or a light chat about the weather.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
If you follow the discussions with Baha'is on this forum, you may probably notice that quite a few (non-Baha'i) members here feel being preached to. You may also notice that Baha'i claim of respecting all religions doesn't stand scrutiny. After a while, most of them will admit that they believe all religions but their own are "outdated" and should be replaced by the Baha'i faith and their prospective world government.
I am probably the only Baha'i who regularly says I believe the older religions are dated so I will own that. However, I never said that the older religions should be replaced by the Baha'i Faith and our prospective world government. I have said that I believe that eventually all the religions will unite and become one religion, but I have also said I do not know if that religion will be the Baha'i Faith, because by the time that happens a new Messenger of God might have appeared at which time there will be a new religion with another name.

What I believe will happen in the future is based upon the following excerpt from a lengthier passage. It makes logical sense to me that if God has ordained something it will surely come to pass eventually:

“That which the Lord hath ordained as the sovereign remedy and mightiest instrument for the healing of all the world is the union of all its peoples in one universal Cause, one common Faith. This can in no wise be achieved except through the power of a skilled, an all-powerful and inspired Physician. This, verily, is the truth, and all else naught but error.”
The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, p. 91
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
An indicator of what?

Funny thing, I see a lot more Christians and Hindus on this forum, and as many Muslims and Jewish posters as there are Baha'is. Moreover, of all the Baha'is that belong to this forum there are only about four of us who regularly post about the Faith. Compare that to the number of Christians regularly posting here. ;)
Proportionately. 6 million Bahai's world wide (probably far less, but sure) 2 billion Christians. 1.2 billion Hindus. Those are factors of 333 times as many Christians, 200 times as many Hindus.

So for the 4 active (there's more than that) Baha'is here, there should be 1300 active Christians and 800 active Hindus. (I only know of 4 or 5) Yes the Bahai' number is disproportionate. Perhaps you don't understand what proportion means.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Well we went to the second book of the faith in the study last night. I´ḿ thinking about dropping out. thought it was on teaching the children and teens the faith.

It was partly but it was also about talking to your family members and teaching friends and neighbors in the community. I said "what is this ya all are converting people because your religion is the best?¨


They said no we don convert people, we just believe in the laws of God we have already studied that it can be shared with the community about community and how to improve our world with folks from other religions. We can talk together on our faith without converting and just teaching what we learned.

Before it was through I was getting a creepy feeling that they wanted me to convert people although they won´t word it that way. Perhaps I am wrong. Do the Bahaís here want to weigh in on this?
This is constructive criticism, that Bahais are one of the most self proselytizing religions that I've ever come across aside from Christian faiths so far.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Proportionately. 6 million Bahai's world wide (probably far less, but sure) 2 billion Christians. 1.2 billion Hindus. Those are factors of 333 times as many Christians, 200 times as many Hindus.

So for the 4 active (there's more than that) Baha'is here, there should be 1300 active Christians and 800 active Hindus. (I only know of 4 or 5) Yes the Bahai' number is disproportionate. Perhaps you don't understand what proportion means.
I do understand why you think it is disproportionate, now that you have explained what you meant by that.

However, there is a lot more than numbers to consider so it is unfair and illogical to compare the Baha'i Faith to any older religions since (a) it is very different in its goals and teachings, and (b) it is new and just getting established, a tiny religion trying to gain recognition among the sea of great world religions who had their beginnings many centuries ago.

On top of that, Bahais have to stand up for our religion because we are often ridiculed by the larger religions, partly because people do not understand what we are about, but mostly because the older religions just cannot stand the idea that a new religion might have come to render them obsolete in the future.

Jews and Hindus are not enjoined to share their religion, so why would there be Hindus doing that on a forum?

Christianity has already spread far and wide and everyone in the world had received the gospel message by the mid-19th century, so why would Christians need to talk about Christianity on a forum? The same applies to Islam, it is a well-known established religion, known by everyone worldwide.

By contrast, there are still many people in the world who have never heard of the Baha'i Faith, and even in the United States which has all the latest technology at least half of people have never heard of the Baha'i Faith! If anything, there should be more Baha'is on forums, not less.

At least half of new people who join this forum say that have never heard of the Baha'i Faith, so what does that tell you? Why should the Baha'is keep their religion a secret on a religious forum?
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
It is in part for children and youth but they also use the teaching to teach their community and neighbors and talk to people about Bahaí beliefs but they say they do it in a way that they don't convert. They did suggest to me to start talking to my family and I let them know quickly my family is off limits and would not be interested anyway and I don't know anyone.

They said since I got ideas from Universalists who practice both Bahai and Unitarianism they said I should talk to people here and get someone interested and that they could join the conversation and take over for me. But they say it's not converting itś just talking to people. I haven't decided anything yet but make no mistake about it, I aint talking to no one. That's not my personality. I am a Universalist.Live and let live.


Now with internet access more people are being exposed to skepticism, critical thinking and empirical evidence. The Bahai put forth 2 books as evidence. One details prophecies from many religions that supposedly prove Bah'ai is real. They botch/mistranslate prophecies or simply pick and choose random elements of prophecies while ignoring the bulk of the prediction and pass it off as a fulfilled prophecy. An entire book could be written explaining each point that doesn't add up to a prophecy. One example was detailed in another thread. A prophecy using a metaphor about the entire world undergoing massive positive change when the savior comes is interpreted as coming true because a garden was built on Mt Carmel which was one of the metaphorical locations used to say the world will be full of life and joy. Example after example of nothing does not add up to evidence.

Then the other book claims 3 attributes a messenger of God must posess and all 3 are a complete failure. Scientific knowledge and political knowledge beyond what is known are two but on both (especially science) it's literally all wrong. The politics is basic and the philosophy is very beginner not remotely close to any western philosophers like Kant or anyone...but every single science proclimation is wrong. There should be pages and pages of science that we do not yet know but it's just a bunch of incorrect science.
It can be demonstrated that this is not a messenger of a God by the book that claims it shows that he is. 99% of the text is flowery statements that sort of hide the fact that there is good evidence that this is a man making stuff up. It's far too easily debunkable to become a world religion.
He should have just claimed to be a new-age guru because he had some good ideas.
 

Riders

Well-Known Member
I do understand why you think it is disproportionate, now that you have explained what you meant by that.

However, there is a lot more than numbers to consider so it is unfair and illogical to compare the Baha'i Faith to any older religions since (a) it is very different in its goals and teachings, and (b) it is new and just getting established, a tiny religion trying to gain recognition among the sea of great world religions who had their beginnings many centuries ago.

On top of that, Bahais have to stand up for our religion because we are often ridiculed by the larger religions, partly because people do not understand what we are about, but mostly because the older religions just cannot stand the idea that a new religion might have come to render them obsolete in the future.

Jews and Hindus are not enjoined to share their religion, so why would there be Hindus doing that on a forum?

Christianity has already spread far and wide and everyone in the world had received the gospel message by the mid-19th century, so why would Christians need to talk about Christianity on a forum? The same applies to Islam, it is a well-known established religion, known by everyone worldwide.

By contrast, there are still many people in the world who have never heard of the Baha'i Faith, and even in the United States which has all the latest technology at least half of people have never heard of the Baha'i Faith! If anything, there should be more Baha'is on forums, not less.

At least half of new people who join this forum say that have never heard of the Baha'i Faith, so what does that tell you? Why should the Baha'is keep their religion a secret on a religious forum?


I never said anything about keeping it a secret. All religions or a lot of them are talked about here. But I am not willing to sit down with my sisters or people even here and have a talk about Bahaí faith as if to instruct them which is what they were saying I should do, teach them about the faith.

To me that´s proselytizing. We can talk about Bahaís without proselytizing but I'm not sharing the Bahaí faith with neighbors and community and so on.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I never said anything about keeping it a secret. All religions or a lot of them are talked about here. But I am not willing to sit down with my sisters or people even here and have a talk about Bahaí faith as if to instruct them which is what they were saying I should do, teach them about the faith.

To me that´s proselytizing. We can talk about Bahaís without proselytizing but I'm not sharing the Bahaí faith with neighbors and community and so on.
I agree you should not be expected to teach anyone about the Baha'i Faith, because you are not even a Baha'i! You can share what you know about the Faith with others, but only if you want to.

In my opinion, Baha'is should not be asking or telling you to "teach the Faith." That is a job that Baha'is have been entrusted to do, and we are only supposed to teach if people show an interest. I mean we might share what we believe in a conversation, but only if people want to know more do we tell them more about the Faith. That is considered teaching the Faith.
 

Riders

Well-Known Member
I am not going back.Bottom line it is converting they are wanting me to do, no getting around it. I hear excuses this is about community and finding answers for all religions not conversion, I am sorry, to me I am hearing a religion trying to convert...............
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I am not going back.Bottom line it is converting they are wanting me to do, no getting around it. I hear excuses this is about community and finding answers for all religions not conversion, I am sorry, to me I am hearing a religion trying to convert...............

All the best Riders.

I hope you find what you are looking for.

The world is full of choices and we have to sort out what it is that God has asked of us.

I see those choices lay in doing good to all people, at all times and I wish for you all happiness and well being.

Regards Tony
 
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