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Tests and Difficulties: The Baha’i Viewpoint

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I missed this earlier. It doesn't matter to me if Abdu'l-Baha added anything. The point of the second paragraph of the UHJ is that He is infallible in everything. That's the significance of the quote from that paragraph signifies to me.
You are free to believe that but I do not believe that Abdu'l-Baha is infallible.
Is God going to send me to hell because I don't believe that?

I will remind you of the Twin Duties. This is what I will focus on.

“The first duty prescribed by God for His servants is the recognition of Him Who is the Day Spring of His Revelation and the Fountain of His laws, Who representeth the Godhead in both the Kingdom of His Cause and the world of creation. Whoso achieveth this duty hath attained unto all good; and whoso is deprived thereof, hath gone astray, though he be the author of every righteous deed. It behoveth every one who reacheth this most sublime station, this summit of transcendent glory, to observe every ordinance of Him Who is the Desire of the world. These twin duties are inseparable. Neither is acceptable without the other. Thus hath it been decreed by Him Who is the Source of Divine inspiration.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 330-331
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
I have no problem with that, but it does not say God singles out individuals and sends them a test to teach them a lesson.
Yes, I agree. In my understanding, the idea is God sends tests to separate believers from disbelievers. Those whose faith is weak, when they face a test or difficulty, they recant and disbelieve in God, and His messengers. But those who have strong faith which came from investigation, they are able to keep their faith, and know, they are being tested.

But also, this is what Bahaullah said about tests in Iqan:


".... Such things take place only that the souls of men may develop and be delivered from the prison-cage of self and desire. Otherwise, that ideal King hath, throughout eternity, been in His Essence independent of the comprehension of all beings, and will continue, forever, in His own Being to be exalted above the adoration of every soul...."
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Nothing found in the writings of Baha'u'llah, can beat the simple message of salvation that is found in the new covenant given to us by Jesus: "Love God with all your heart=body and all your mind=spirit, and with all you soul-life force, and love your neighbor as yourself," and you will live.

Very true, this is of the essence of belief in the one true God. But Christ also promised the Kingdom of God on earth would come.

Today, however, we Baha’is believe, the Father, Whom we believe to be Baha’u’llah, has brought the Kingdom of God which was promised by the Son, Jesus, and which has been prayed for in the Lord’s Prayer for over two thousand years.

Baha’is believe the Kingdom of God on earth, which Christ foretold, is being established now with the Universal House of Justice according to Isaiah 2:3. This is our belief.

And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. (Isaiah 2:3)

Baha’u’llah states according to the above passage of Isaiah:

The promises of God, as recorded in the holy Scriptures, have all been fulfilled. Out of Zion hath gone forth the Law of God, and Jerusalem, and the hills and land thereof, are filled with the glory of His Revelation. Happy is the man that pondereth in his heart that which hath been revealed in the Books of God, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting.


Mount Carmel, known as the ‘Vineyard of God’, is, we believe, where the laws of God stream forth from the Universal House of Justice all over the world and also where people from every nation of earth visit on pilgrimage in Haifa, Israel. This is our belief and understanding of that prophecy of Isaiah and the Words of Jesus in the Lord’s Prayer

 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Asking questions is a good way to realize deeper wisdom
Some religious people don't ask questions because they believe they already have all the answers in their religion... Then when I question what they believe they get all bent out of shape. If they were so certain of what they believe why would it matter what I say?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Yes, I agree. In my understanding, the idea is God sends tests to separate believers from disbelievers. Those whose faith is weak, when they face a test or difficulty, they recant and disbelieve in God, and His messengers. But those who have strong faith which came from investigation, they are able to keep their faith, and know, they are being tested.

But also, this is what Bahaullah said about tests in Iqan:


".... Such things take place only that the souls of men may develop and be delivered from the prison-cage of self and desire. Otherwise, that ideal King hath, throughout eternity, been in His Essence independent of the comprehension of all beings, and will continue, forever, in His own Being to be exalted above the adoration of every soul...."
I have do not call into question anything that Baha'u'llah wrote. His Writings are the primary reason I became and remain a Baha'i.

I have been a Baha'i for 50 years and I have never lost my faith in Baha'ullah or in God.
I get angry at God sometimes but I am sure God understands why and forgives me.

My suffering is such that no ordinary person could understand. People who have not suffered that much cannot ever know what it is like to be me so they cannot know what they would do under the same circumstances. They cannot ever know. That includes Abdu'l-Baha, he cannot ever know what I or anyone else has been through so he should not judge. Clearly, he was judging when he called people cowards and weak souls.

Abdu'l-Baha said elsewhere to beware lest ye offend any soul, and then he offends people by saying offensive things. Does anyone have any idea how much that hurts to be called a coward and a weak soul? Does anyone even care or do they only care about Baha'i dogma, what the UHJ said, about x, y, or z?
upload_2020-9-1_6-47-29.png

I have faced every test head on and I got through it somehow, and although I have been at the brink of suicide many times I am still here, so I am not a coward. I did not consider my tests a gift from God, but I never ran away. How I relate to my tests is nobody's business.

"Consequently, it is made clear that for holy souls, trials are as the gift of God, the Exalted; but for weak souls they are an unexpected calamity.” Bahá’í World Faith, p. 371

Who is Abdu'l-Baha to judge souls and call them weak? He is not God Almighty.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
The second duty also contains the ordinance of the Covenant and all that Baha'u'llah conferred to Abdul'baha in the writings.
How I fulfill that duty is nobody's business but my own.

Baháʼí laws are laws and ordinances used in the Baháʼí Faith and are a fundamental part of Baháʼí practice.[1] The laws are based on authenticated texts from Baháʼu'lláh, the founder of the Baháʼí Faith, and also includes subsequent interpretations from ʻAbdu'l-Bahá and Shoghi Effendi, and legislation by the Universal House of Justice.[2] Baháʼí law is presented as a set of general principles and guidelines and individuals must apply them as they best seem fit.[2] While some of the social laws are enforced by Baháʼí institutions, the emphasis is placed on individuals following the laws based on their conscience, understanding and reasoning, and Baháʼís are expected to follow the laws for the love of Baháʼu'lláh.[2] The laws are seen as the method of the maintenance of order and security in the world.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baha'i_laws

I have a right to my own opinion.....My opinion about Abdu'l-Baha is nobody's business but my own.
You might want to ask yourself why that bothers you so much. I cannot answer that because I am not you.

26: O SON OF BEING! How couldst thou forget thine own faults and busy thyself with the faults of others? Whoso doeth this is accursed of Me. The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 10

66: O EMIGRANTS! The tongue I have designed for the mention of Me, defile it not with detraction. If the fire of self overcome you, remember your own faults and not the faults of My creatures, inasmuch as every one of you knoweth his own self better than he knoweth others.
The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 45
 
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stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
There is no proof that people need tests to grow spiritually. That is just a Baha’i mantra
My Master said "Test is my taste"

It is just humans who rather avoid troubles

What is a university degree's value without exams
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
I have do not call into question anything that Baha'u'llah wrote. His Writings are the primary reason I became and remain a Baha'i.

I have been a Baha'i for 50 years and I have never lost my faith in Baha'ullah or in God.
I get angry at God sometimes but I am sure God understands why and forgives me.

My suffering is such that no ordinary person could understand. People who have not suffered that much cannot ever know what it is like to be me so they cannot know what they would do under the same circumstances. They cannot ever know. That includes Abdu'l-Baha, he cannot ever know what I or anyone else has been through so he should not judge. Clearly, he was judging when he called people cowards and weak souls.

Abdu'l-Baha said elsewhere to beware lest ye offend any soul, and then he offends people by saying offensive things. Does anyone have any idea how much that hurts to be called a coward and a weak soul? Does anyone even care or do they only care about Baha'i dogma, what the UHJ said, about x, y, or z?
View attachment 42483
I have faced every test head on and I got through it somehow, and although I have been at the brink of suicide many times I am still here, so I am not a coward. I did not consider my tests a gift from God, but I never ran away. How I relate to my tests is nobody's business.

"Consequently, it is made clear that for holy souls, trials are as the gift of God, the Exalted; but for weak souls they are an unexpected calamity.” Bahá’í World Faith, p. 371

Who is Abdu'l-Baha to judge souls and call them weak? He is not God Almighty.
I understand. But not all difficulties or problems are a test. So, ,maybe the difficulties you faced, are not test, but consequence of something else, and what Abdulbaha said may not be applicable to you. I think what Abdulbaha said, is just to encourage people to endure the tests and difficulties.
You have read Some answered questions. Abdulbaha have good knowledge of mysteries in the Bible. So, in your view, where did He get His knowledge from? According to history He did not study.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I understand. But not all difficulties or problems are a test. So, ,maybe the difficulties you faced, are not test, but consequence of something else, and what Abdulbaha said may not be applicable to you.
You just made a very good point, so I assume you meant if it was a test, it was sent by God?

So my next thought was: How can we know if something is a test or if it is a consequence of something else?

Abdu'l-Baha and Baha'u'llah both talked about the tests that come to the faithful in the path of service to God. I have never had any problems with those tests and I can be grateful for them as Abdu'l-Baha said we should be, because those tests serve a purpose, not just for me, but for other people. These are NOT the tests I have ever complained about. So context is very important! What tests was Abdu'l-Baha referring to in the following paragraph? If he was referring to tests that come upon us in the path of service I gladly hasten, with the utmost joy and gladness, to the tests of a violent battlefield.

“Thou hast written concerning the tests that have come upon thee. To the sincere ones, tests are as a gift from God, the Exalted, for a heroic person hasteneth, with the utmost joy and gladness, to the tests of a violent battlefield, but the coward is afraid and trembles and utters moaning and lamentation. Likewise, an expert student prepareth and memorizeth his lessons and exercises with the utmost effort, and in the day of examination he appeareth with infinite joy before the master. Likewise, the pure gold shineth radiantly in the fire of test. Consequently, it is made clear that for holy souls, trials are as the gift of God, the Exalted; but for weak souls they are an unexpected calamity.” Bahá’í World Faith, p. 371

Again, on the quote below, Abdu'l-Baha refers to tests in the path of service. to the Cause. I agree that, as he said, these episodes shall pass away, while abiding glory and eternal life shall remain unchanged forever, and that these afflictions shall be the cause of great advancement.

"O thou who art steadfast in the Covenant! Thy letter of 9 September 1909 hath been received. Be thou neither grieved nor despondent over what hath come to pass. This trouble overtook thee as thou didst walk the path of God, wherefore it should bring thee joy. We addressed the friends in writing ere this, and made a verbal statement as well, to the effect that the friends in the West will unquestionably have their share of the calamities befalling the friends in the East. It is inevitable that, walking the pathway of Bahá’u’lláh, they too will become targets for persecution by the oppressors.

Consider how at the beginning of the Christian era the Apostles were afflicted, and what torments they endured in the pathway of Christ. Every day of their lives they were targets for the Pharisees’ darts of mockery, vilification and abuse. They bore great hardship; they saw prison; and most of them carried to their lips the sweet cup of martyrdom.

Now ye, as well, must certainly become my partners to some slight degree, and accept your share of tests and sorrows. But these episodes shall pass away, while that abiding glory and eternal life shall remain unchanged forever. Moreover, these afflictions shall be the cause of great advancement.

I ask of God that thou, His husbandman, shalt plough the hard and stony ground, and water it, and scatter seeds therein—for this will show how skilful is the farmer, while any man can sow and till where the ground is soft, and clear of brambles and thorns."
Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, pp. 238-239

Now we come to what Abdu'l-Baha said, that all calamities and afflictions have been created for man so that he may spurn this mortal world—a world to which he is much attached, and I can agree with that too.

"O thou servant of God! Do not grieve at the afflictions and calamities that have befallen thee. All calamities and afflictions have been created for man so that he may spurn this mortal world—a world to which he is much attached. When he experienceth severe trials and hardships, then his nature will recoil and he will desire the eternal realm—a realm which is sanctified from all afflictions and calamities. Such is the case with the man who is wise. He shall never drink from a cup which is at the end distasteful, but, on the contrary, he will seek the cup of pure and limpid water. He will not taste of the honey that is mixed with poison.

Praise thou God, that thou hast been tried and hast experienced such a test. Be patient and grateful. Turn thy face to the divine Kingdom and strive that thou mayest acquire merciful characteristics, mayest become illumined and acquire the attributes of the Kingdom and of the Lord. Endeavour to become indifferent to the pleasures of this world and to its comfort, to remain firm and steadfast in the Covenant and to promulgate the Cause of God.

This is the cause of the exaltation of man, the cause of his glory and of his salvation."

Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 239

The caveat is that not everyone is attached to this mortal world of dust and they might not need tests in order to become detached; they might just read what Baha'u'llah wrote about the world and decide that it is in their best interest NOT to be attached to the world. That is what I did.

I am not saying this to brag, but I am attached to nothing except my husband and my cats, and all my suffering comes from the illness and death of my cats, not from a drop on the stock market. I have a lot of money in the stock market and the stock market has crashed many times, but I hardly pay any attention to it, although luckily it all came back. I have many financial assets and much wealth, but I plan to leave all of that to the Baha'i Faith and animal rescue organizations. I do understand that most Baha'is enjoy the physical world so there is a degree of attachment, and I do not judge them for that because that is normal, but I have to force myself to partake of the bounties of the physical world, because I am very austere in my lifestyle and I would much rather be serving the Cause than partaking of worldly things.
I think what Abdulbaha said, is just to encourage people to endure the tests and difficulties.
Making a general statement that we should endure tests and difficulties is fine by me; it was when he called people cowards and weak souls as contrasted with sincere ones and holy souls, that bothered me. I will hasten to the battlefield to teach the Faith and I will consider that a gift from God, but if a cat dies I will not consider that a gift, I will consider it a calamity, and I will not thank God for that, although I will accept it as God's will as long as I know I did everything possible to prevent it... So now you know where I am coming from.
You have read Some answered questions. Abdulbaha have good knowledge of mysteries in the Bible. So, in your view, where did He get His knowledge from? According to history He did not study.
I would guess that Abdu'l-Baha got his knowledge from Baha'u'llah, who had all knowledge which He got from God.

“O KING! I was but a man like others, asleep upon My couch, when lo, the breezes of the All-Glorious were wafted over Me, and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been. This thing is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing. And He bade Me lift up My voice between earth and heaven, and for this there befell Me what hath caused the tears of every man of understanding to flow.” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 57

The only problem I have is if Abdu'l-Baha comes up with something that Baha'u'llah did not write about. In that case, if it does not sit right with me, I am going to question it, because I do not believe that Abdul-Baha is infallible. By contrast, if Baha'u'llah wrote it I will not question it even if I do not like it; rather I will accept it and try to understand why He wrote it.
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
You just made a very good point, so I assume you meant if it was a test, it was sent by God?

So my next thought was: How can we know if something is a test or if it is a consequence of something else?

Abdu'l-Baha and Baha'u'llah both talked about the tests that come to the faithful in the path of service to God. I have never had any problems with those tests and I can be grateful for them as Abdu'l-Baha said we should be, because those tests serve a purpose, not just for me, but for other people. These are NOT the tests I have ever complained about. So context is very important! What tests was Abdu'l-Baha referring to in the following paragraph? If he was referring to tests that come upon us in the path of service I gladly hasten, with the utmost joy and gladness, to the tests of a violent battlefield.

“Thou hast written concerning the tests that have come upon thee. To the sincere ones, tests are as a gift from God, the Exalted, for a heroic person hasteneth, with the utmost joy and gladness, to the tests of a violent battlefield, but the coward is afraid and trembles and utters moaning and lamentation. Likewise, an expert student prepareth and memorizeth his lessons and exercises with the utmost effort, and in the day of examination he appeareth with infinite joy before the master. Likewise, the pure gold shineth radiantly in the fire of test. Consequently, it is made clear that for holy souls, trials are as the gift of God, the Exalted; but for weak souls they are an unexpected calamity.” Bahá’í World Faith, p. 371

Again, on the quote below, Abdu'l-Baha refers to tests in the path of service. to the Cause. I agree that, as he said, these episodes shall pass away, while abiding glory and eternal life shall remain unchanged forever, and that these afflictions shall be the cause of great advancement.

"O thou who art steadfast in the Covenant! Thy letter of 9 September 1909 hath been received. Be thou neither grieved nor despondent over what hath come to pass. This trouble overtook thee as thou didst walk the path of God, wherefore it should bring thee joy. We addressed the friends in writing ere this, and made a verbal statement as well, to the effect that the friends in the West will unquestionably have their share of the calamities befalling the friends in the East. It is inevitable that, walking the pathway of Bahá’u’lláh, they too will become targets for persecution by the oppressors.

Consider how at the beginning of the Christian era the Apostles were afflicted, and what torments they endured in the pathway of Christ. Every day of their lives they were targets for the Pharisees’ darts of mockery, vilification and abuse. They bore great hardship; they saw prison; and most of them carried to their lips the sweet cup of martyrdom.

Now ye, as well, must certainly become my partners to some slight degree, and accept your share of tests and sorrows. But these episodes shall pass away, while that abiding glory and eternal life shall remain unchanged forever. Moreover, these afflictions shall be the cause of great advancement.

I ask of God that thou, His husbandman, shalt plough the hard and stony ground, and water it, and scatter seeds therein—for this will show how skilful is the farmer, while any man can sow and till where the ground is soft, and clear of brambles and thorns."
Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, pp. 238-239

Now we come to what Abdu'l-Baha said, that all calamities and afflictions have been created for man so that he may spurn this mortal world—a world to which he is much attached, and I can agree with that too.

"O thou servant of God! Do not grieve at the afflictions and calamities that have befallen thee. All calamities and afflictions have been created for man so that he may spurn this mortal world—a world to which he is much attached. When he experienceth severe trials and hardships, then his nature will recoil and he will desire the eternal realm—a realm which is sanctified from all afflictions and calamities. Such is the case with the man who is wise. He shall never drink from a cup which is at the end distasteful, but, on the contrary, he will seek the cup of pure and limpid water. He will not taste of the honey that is mixed with poison.

Praise thou God, that thou hast been tried and hast experienced such a test. Be patient and grateful. Turn thy face to the divine Kingdom and strive that thou mayest acquire merciful characteristics, mayest become illumined and acquire the attributes of the Kingdom and of the Lord. Endeavour to become indifferent to the pleasures of this world and to its comfort, to remain firm and steadfast in the Covenant and to promulgate the Cause of God.

This is the cause of the exaltation of man, the cause of his glory and of his salvation."

Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 239

The caveat is that not everyone is attached to this mortal world of dust and they might not need tests in order to become detached; they might just read what Baha'u'llah wrote about the world and decide that it is in their best interest NOT to be attached to the world. That is what I did.

I am not saying this to brag, but I am attached to nothing except my husband and my cats, and all my suffering comes from the illness and death of my cats, not from a drop on the stock market. I have a lot of money in the stock market and the stock market has crashed many times, but I hardly pay any attention to it, although luckily it all came back. I have many financial assets and much wealth, but I plan to leave all of that to the Baha'i Faith and animal rescue organizations. I do understand that most Baha'is enjoy the physical world so there is a degree of attachment, and I do not judge them for that because that is normal, but I have to force myself to partake of the bounties of the physical world, because I am very austere in my lifestyle and I would much rather be serving the Cause than partaking of worldly things.

Making a general statement that we should endure tests and difficulties is fine by me; it was when he called people cowards and weak souls as contrasted with sincere ones and holy souls, that bothered me. I will hasten to the battlefield to teach the Faith and I will consider that a gift from God, but if a cat dies I will not consider that a gift, I will consider it a calamity, and I will not thank God for that, although I will accept it as God's will as long as I know I did everything possible to prevent it... So now you know where I am coming from.

I would guess that Abdu'l-Baha got his knowledge from Baha'u'llah, who had all knowledge which He got from God.

“O KING! I was but a man like others, asleep upon My couch, when lo, the breezes of the All-Glorious were wafted over Me, and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been. This thing is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing. And He bade Me lift up My voice between earth and heaven, and for this there befell Me what hath caused the tears of every man of understanding to flow.” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 57

The only problem I have is if Abdu'l-Baha comes up with something that Baha'u'llah did not write about. In that case, if it does not sit right with me, I am going to question it, because I do not believe that Abdul-Baha is infallible. By contrast, if Baha'u'llah wrote it I will not question it even if I do not like it; rather I will accept it and try to understand why He wrote it.
You know, translation could be an issue here as well. For example, Some Answered questions has been translated 2 or 3 times, because it needed correction and improvement. So, Abdulbaha spoke Persian, and in Persian the word used, is not considered offensive. In english, coward is offensive, but in Persian it just means, someone who gets disturbed or too worried, and is not as offensive as the word coward in English.
As regards to knowledge of Abdulbaha, generally understanding is, He got His knowledge from Bahaullah, but, more through inspiration rather than sitting with Him to study. Anyways, just shared some thoughts.
 

Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
You are free to believe whatever you want to believe.
I do not have to believe it because the UHJ said it.
I guess this is too far back in the thread but Baha'u'llah said this:
For example, Bahá'u'lláh, in addition to His reference to the Centre of His Covenant as the "Mystery of God", states that 'Abdu'l-Bahá should be regarded as God's "exalted Handiwork" and "a Word which God hath adorned with the ornament of His Own Self, and made it sovereign over the earth and all that there is therein..."
It's "a Word which God hath adorned with the ornament of His Own Self, and made it sovereign over the earth and all that is therein" that Baha'u'llah said I was referring to, not anything the UHJ said.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
It's "a Word which God hath adorned with the ornament of His Own Self, and made it sovereign over the earth and all that is therein" that Baha'u'llah said I was referring to, not anything the UHJ said.
Can you cite the passage wherein Baha'u'llah wrote that?
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
There it is! Right there!
A perfect example of how Bahai, in a Bahai World, would censor all.

I think you've just done more damage for Bahai than the OP ever could have. In fact I think the OP is a Hero to have run this thread, rather than a coward....... what d'you reckon?
Nah, censorship? Aren't Baha'i free to think for themselves? To not disagree with anything the leaders say? That's something maybe a cult do.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
How do you know that it isn't true? How do know the condition of such a person in the next world? Again, that is not authoritative also like in previous quotes from Paris Talks.

As you can see, I am trying to repair the damage you are doing here. I don't think you should be in forums if you say things like this. You are not a firm Baha'i.
What is a "firm" Baha'i? One that never questions the leaders?
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Tony, now listen to yourself you fool. Bow out, means bow out.

Regards Tony
Is this a case of... "if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all"? She has often said how she's mad at God, but now she's gone too far.... she's questioned the infallibility of the prophet's son?
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Asking questions is a good way to realize deeper wisdom :)
Yes it can hurt for those who disagree or see it differently, I know because when I am asked difficult questions I do not know the answer to, it can shake the foundation under my feet, until I my self realize the truth about the question :)
I wonder if asking in private with only "firm" believers would have really helped?
 

Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
I am not attacking Abdu'l-Baha and I am not trying to make an impression. I am practically in tears I am so hurt by what he wrote but nobody cares, all they care is about is their dogma.

Why would Tony be hurt, because I have my own opinion? That is what we do on RF, have opinions. On Baha'i Forums we cannot have any of our own opinions, we have to just believe.
It seems like an attack when you say Abdul-Baha is insensitive and arrogant, and things of that nature. It hurts me for you to say that. You make bad impression to me. However, I think you have a point that you saying things like that doesn't make a impression here on these people here because they are already prejudiced against the Baha'i Faith.

I see people have all sorts of different opinions on Baha'i Forums. I think your opinion has been allowed there. Saying that you don't on Baha'i Forums gives everybody the impression that the Baha'i Faith is oppressive, doesn't allow different opinions, and will expel people from the faith for that, like I've seen on this thread.

I claim some fault for that, for saying you shouldn't be saying somethings here and shouldn't be posting here when you are not a firm believer. I got carried away and I was wrong to say that.

We shouldn't be attacking each other. I damaged the reputation of the Baha'i Faith here.
 

Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
Maybe what he said was true, but calling people weak souls just because they do not embrace tests with glee is still judgmental and critical.

“Thou hast written concerning the tests that have come upon thee. To the sincere ones, tests are as a gift from God, the Exalted, for a heroic person hasteneth, with the utmost joy and gladness, to the tests of a violent battlefield, but the coward is afraid and trembles and utters moaning and lamentation. Likewise, an expert student prepareth and memorizeth his lessons and exercises with the utmost effort, and in the day of examination he appeareth with infinite joy before the master. Likewise, the pure gold shineth radiantly in the fire of test. Consequently, it is made clear that for holy souls, trials are as the gift of God, the Exalted; but for weak souls they are an unexpected calamity.” Bahá’í World Faith, p. 371
Weak souls to me are those who have made themselves so through their lack of striving to judge things with justice, to improve their bahavior and seek God, things like that. They are weak with God.



This is all part of God's justice. Those who've striven for God's sake will be strengthened by tests and difficulties to make spiritual progress. Their failures with those tests when they fail them will help them improve themselves, which is what this plane of existence is about. Those who have not cared and are heedless will just feel the calamity of the test, because they are not looking for ways to improve themselves and get closer to God.
 
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