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Tests and Difficulties: The Baha’i Viewpoint

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
He's not nice at all. He says terrible things about the Baha'i Faith and Abdu'l-Baha.
That does not mean he is not a nice person.

“Likewise, when you meet those whose opinions differ from your own, do not turn away your face from them. All are seeking truth, and there are many roads leading thereto. Truth has many aspects, but it remains always and forever one.

Do not allow difference of opinion, or diversity of thought to separate you from your fellow-men, or to be the cause of dispute, hatred and strife in your hearts.

Rather, search diligently for the truth and make all men your friends.”


BEAUTY AND HARMONY IN DIVERSITY
 
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Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Ah, he did not know English. Somebody else translated it in 20th Century. Why did that person use 15th Century English? Any idea?
Here is the reason:

Aupmanyav said: I always wonder why Bahais have not changed the writings of the Bahai Trinity in modern English? Why this use of Shakespearean English?
It does make Bahai writings seem ancient.

Tony said: The reason is that Shoghi Effendi went to England to study English so He could better translate the Writings of Baha'u'llah from Persian and Arabic into English.

From his studies he determined that King James English was the best form to portray Persian and Arabic to English speakers.

Apparently Persian and Arabic have a form of poetic prose that is hard to portray to English speakers. King James English must in a small way convey some of that poetic prose experienced by Persian and Arabic speakers.

Shoghi Effendi offered that the future may see different translations.
 
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Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Baha'i has estranged devoted Bahá'ís that wrote too much about Baha'i history.
Baha'u'llah has never been the problem. The problem is the Baha'is. I hate to have to say this but if the shoe fits.....

And just like Jesus is not responsible for any misdoings of the Christians, Baha'ul'lah is not responsible for any misdoings of the Baha'is.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Baha'u'llah has never been the problem. The problem is the Baha'is. I hate to have to say this but if the shoe fits.....

And just like Jesus is not responsible for any misdoings of the Christians, Baha'ul'lah is not responsible for any misdoings of the Baha'is.
True.
Baha'i today is responsible for Baha'i today.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Baha'u'llah has never been the problem. The problem is the Baha'is. I hate to have to say this but if the shoe fits.....

And just like Jesus is not responsible for any misdoings of the Christians, Baha'ul'lah is not responsible for any misdoings of the Baha'is.
I've mentioned it before, the Baha'is I hung out with were on the liberal side. They were definitely some very conservative (fundamentalistic) Baha'is too. My best Baha'i friend was always getting in trouble with her LSA, because she didn't do things the "proper" Baha'i way. You might not be perfect, but then who is, but we've probably all learned more about the Baha'i Faith from you than anybody else.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
So now you are talking about advanced souls, implying that not all souls are advanced. I consider that judgmental.
I do not accept trials with radiant acquiescence so I guess I am not advanced.
Advanced souls? We, supposedly, just got our soul and body. How did one soul advance and another didn't I wonder? Now if we are talking about reincarnation, then, yes, some souls have been through it all in other lifetimes and have advanced spiritually. But in one lifetime? With some getting dealt a horrible hand and others all aces? What is he talking about?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I've mentioned it before, the Baha'is I hung out with were on the liberal side. They were definitely some very conservative (fundamentalistic) Baha'is too. My best Baha'i friend was always getting in trouble with her LSA, because she didn't do things the "proper" Baha'i way.
Liberal Baha'is? Where are they, I want their number. :D
You know, you are not supposed to separate the Baha'is into conservatives and liberals, because we are supposed to be united as Baha'is.

I do follow the Laws to the best of my ability but I am no fundamentalist, and I am only starting to realize how fundamentalist some Baha'is are with this whole thing about Abdu'l-Baha being infallible.... I used to consider fundamentalist a badge of honor but since I came to RF I have learned a lot so I have lightened up.
You might not be perfect, but then who is, but we've probably all learned more about the Baha'i Faith from you than anybody else.
Well thanks, and that is probably true, given the sheer number of hours I have invested, but the irony is I do not even like being a Baha'i whereas the other Baha'is just love it. Unfortunately, life is not always about what we like. For me life is about what is true and doing the right thing.

My best Baha'i friend just told me he can understand my situation with the cats but ideally Baha'is should love the Faith more than everything. Hogwash. I just told my husband who is also a Baha'i what my friend said, and no comment was forthcoming because he knows I love the cats more than anything else in the world. Nevertheless, I spend a lot more time yakking on forums than I spend with the cats.
 
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Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Advanced souls? We, supposedly, just got our soul and body. How did one soul advance and another didn't I wonder? Now if we are talking about reincarnation, then, yes, some souls have been through it all in other lifetimes and have advanced spiritually. But in one lifetime? With some getting dealt a horrible hand and others all aces? What is he talking about?
He means spiritually advanced souls and the way we are supposed to achieve that is by being a "good little Baha'i" saying our prayers and reading the Writings and maybe even meditating and following the Laws, and of course it is always good if we can be of service to the Cause.

But unfortunately some of us got dealt a poor hand so we have to struggle a lot harder to achieve the the same things, if we even can.

I think Shoghi Effendi was more down to earth and puts out more realistic expectations than Abdu'l-Baha for spiritual development. I like this letter written by Shoghi Effendi which addresses soul advancement in very realistic terms:

"Our past is not the thing that matters so much in this world as what we intend to do with our future. The inestimable value of religion is that when a man is vitally connected with it, through a real and living belief in it and in the Prophet Who brought it, he receives a strength greater than his own which helps him to develop his good characteristics and overcome his bad ones. The whole purpose of religion is to change not only our thoughts but our acts; when we believe in God and His Prophet and His Teachings, we find we are growing, even though we perhaps thought ourselves incapable of growth and change!"

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, October 3, 1943)

Lights of Guidance (second part)
 
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Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Advanced souls? We, supposedly, just got our soul and body. How did one soul advance and another didn't I wonder? Now if we are talking about reincarnation, then, yes, some souls have been through it all in other lifetimes and have advanced spiritually. But in one lifetime? With some getting dealt a horrible hand and others all aces? What is he talking about?
And who is this 'we' that has a soul? In my (not me, this personality) view it is the soul that has an 'I'. Temporary, but still. I just don't see how a person can have a soul. Is it like having a nose? OTOH, I can see how a soul develops a person around it.

But hey, very different paradigms.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
And who is this 'we' that has a soul? In my (not me, this personality) view it is the soul that has an 'I'. Temporary, but still. I just don't see how a person can have a soul. Is it like having a nose? OTOH, I can see how a soul develops a person around it.

But hey, very different paradigms.
Only advanced souls accept trials with radiant acquiescence.
I'm assuming that he is using "soul" to mean the eternal part of a person that, as a good Baha'i, moves on to spiritual world. But I've asumped wrong before?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I'm assuming that he is using "soul" to mean the eternal part of a person that, as a good Baha'i, moves on to spiritual world. But I've asumped wrong before?
Baha'is believe that all souls are immortal, meaning that they cannot die, no matter if they were good or bad....
This is kind of complicated so I am just going to copy/paste what I post to explain it to Christians. This is the short version, but I have longer versions.

All humans have a soul that continues to exist forever (is immortal) but that is not to be confused with eternal life, which is a state of the soul that is near to God, meaning that they know and love God. One way to know and love God is by recognizing Jesus so that is why believing in Jesus conferred eternal life.

Jesus referred to eternal life, but He was not referring to physical life of the body. He was referring a quality of life, loving God and being close to God, and we can have eternal life both in this world and in the next world (afterlife). It is a state of the soul that is near to God.

John 3:16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.


John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

The soul (spirit) of man is immortal, so no matter what people believe or disbelieve no soul ever actually perishes; so perish in John 3:16 means being far from God.

“The immortality of the spirit is mentioned in the Holy Books; it is the fundamental basis of the divine religions. Now punishments and rewards are said to be of two kinds: first, the rewards and punishments of this life; second, those of the other world. But the paradise and hell of existence are found in all the worlds of God, whether in this world or in the spiritual heavenly worlds. Gaining these rewards is the gaining of eternal life. That is why Christ said, “Act in such a way that you may find eternal life, and that you may be born of water and the spirit, so that you may enter into the Kingdom.” 2Some Answered Questions, p. 223

Those people who are veiled from God, although their soul continues to exist in the spiritual world after their physical body dies.

“In the same way, the souls who are veiled from God, although they exist in this world and in the world after death, are, in comparison with the holy existence of the children of the Kingdom of God, nonexisting and separated from God.”
Some Answered Questions, p. 243
 
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rational experiences

Veteran Member
Baha'is believe that all souls are eternal, meaning that they live forever, no matter if they were good or bad....
This is kind of complicated so I am just going to copy/paste what I post to explain it to Christians. This is the short version, but I have longer versions.

All humans have a soul that continues to exist forever (is eternal) but that is not to be confused with eternal life, which is a state of the soul that is near to God, meaning that they know and love God. One way to know and love God is by recognizing Jesus so that is why believing in Jesus conferred eternal life.

Jesus referred to eternal life, but He was not referring to physical life of the body. He was referring a quality of life, loving God and being close to God, and we can have eternal life both in this world and in the next world (afterlife). It is a state of the soul that is near to God.

John 3:16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.


John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

The soul (spirit) of man is immortal, so no matter what people believe or disbelieve no soul ever actually perishes; so perish in John 3:16 means being far from God.

“The immortality of the spirit is mentioned in the Holy Books; it is the fundamental basis of the divine religions. Now punishments and rewards are said to be of two kinds: first, the rewards and punishments of this life; second, those of the other world. But the paradise and hell of existence are found in all the worlds of God, whether in this world or in the spiritual heavenly worlds. Gaining these rewards is the gaining of eternal life. That is why Christ said, “Act in such a way that you may find eternal life, and that you may be born of water and the spirit, so that you may enter into the Kingdom.” 2Some Answered Questions, p. 223

Those people who are veiled from God, although their soul continues to exist in the spiritual world after their physical body dies.

“In the same way, the souls who are veiled from God, although they exist in this world and in the world after death, are, in comparison with the holy existence of the children of the Kingdom of God, nonexisting and separated from God.”
Some Answered Questions, p. 243

I have had personal spiritual communicative self human awareness with an eternal being.

They own no male or female qualities and communicate only unconditional love. The love so intense that it physically made by personal body change. What I learnt as a human telling stories to other humans telling stories. About self a human in a human experience.

Then there is the Satanic/occult God theme, after life causes, studied, inferred, taught.

Now if an eternal being owned no communicative judgments of my life, then if you did not believe in Jesus who says you are wrong? Only the group coercive organization of storytellers make that claim.

Hence you then have to review information, group belief, sharing of information and also coercion of information. And is the information/format sharing natural and equal without any bias. Such as if you do not believe, hence you therefore do not belong with us.

Human quality of not being truthful? As groups do. Seeing no matter what form story or information is shared, groups own the control of it.

Natural humans equates a teaching to self by our Holy Father and Holy Mother memory who came directly out of the eternal spirit, converted spiritually by water/oxygen and microbial mass into a lower human life form. Why we know, I have even seen the memory/visions and it was like I lived it.

So not owning any belief in religion as a young child, seeing so much abuse by it....and not believing in spirit either, for I challenged it and said prove yourself if you are real. And it did.

Therefore if you corrupt and sacrifice your life body, and own stigmata conditions, then similarities in modern life is Ebola. Unnatural cellular chemical conversions so that the natural physical body is corrupted and changes and dies sacrificed.

Sacrifice by teaching is EARLY AGE death. As a baby should live C 100 years by evaluation. If you died at the age 33, then you died abnormally.

Now if you did believe or did not believe, do humans who own 100 per cent belief in Jesus die from early age corrupted flesh, all forms of, medical sickness death?

The answer is yes, of course they do. Why some very religious humans no longer believe in God or the taught themes. Because of being witnessing to coercive lying.

If however you were a Healer, biologist medical scientist doing a DATA historic review about human life and changed Genetics and named it Genesis as a teaching you would be quoting medical knowledge.

That stated, the sacrifice on the body of Jesus the human male changed. It was not just stigmata....and so the literature data and evidence said humans died as a Saint theme.....incorruptible body. Did not decompose.

Now as a human who quotes life is Holy and life is by Holy water per mass and then an occult teaching document said Jehovah taught you all already in Moses/Noah Egyptian pyramid/temple theme...that it melted the ICE. The flood first had to fill in the mountain under ground removal shift of mass SIN holes....which today we say is a SINK HOLE. K in science old science terms is for constant.

Today in new atmospheric evil irradiation experiments, and UFO want of the control, they formed new constant emerging sink holes. Which is removing original SIN. So did that circumstance save you, or have humans become sicker?

You know removing bacterias and microbes out of natural water that forces a deceased life to bodily decompose? Remove what water owns and the bodily functions would then alter.

So it was not any HOLY act. The reference in LAW said any title named HOLY in the scientific occult literature of proof/Revelations quotes....so never change what evil we already inherited or else you will be destroyed by God.

So today science quotes God is a particle. Which he either means God the particle owns our life, or God the particle converted owns our life. Which would not equate and so God the particle invents electricity would it?

Science is a proven liar, always did lie. No one in history said, yes we need science, it was a male group choice. Why they named the choice a brotherhood and they were always liars.
 
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