Teachers and Tenure

[Runlikethewind]

In bold move, Colorado alters teacher tenure rules - Yahoo! News

This raised many questions in my mind regarding the teaching profession. I do believe that the tenure system can create an environment whereby bad teachers can become entrenched and I agree, on a philosophical level, that teachers should be evaluated on their performance. But in practice I wonder as to what the standards of performance should be based on. I am against it being just a numbers game, just an evaluation of test scores. Indeed, as much as I would like to see teachers evaluated on performance I find it difficult to come up with objective criterion for doing so. So any thought on this? What are good standards of evaluation? Should tenure be based on performance?

Teaching is as much an art as it is anything else. Which raises another question, should we reevaluate our standards for hiring teachers? Should teachers really be required to get all the education we require when there is a huge difference between having knowledge and having the ability to pass that knowledge onto others?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Wow, you may haved opened a can of worms if one really wanted to get into the history of schools in America, who controls them, and outcomes are expected.

My mother was a school teacher for 19 years and made the observation that in her time the best and the brightest women were only allowed to teach or become nurses. That has certainly changed over time.

My theory is that as the federal government gets more involved the expected outcome is that about 10% of the population will become truly educated through the school system. It is a desired to result to keep the remainder only minimally educated.


I originally started to believe this because the more we spend on education the less educated our kids become. Correlate this with the fact that we already know how to educate kids (it's been done before) and it would seem that this is being done on purpose.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Unfortunately, like the No Child Left Behind Act, these well intentioned pieces of legislation tend to force teachers to teach their students how to pass evaluation tests, rather than actual learning.

 

[Runlikethewind]

Unfortunately, like the No Child Left Behind Act, these well intentioned pieces of legislation tend to force teachers to teach their students how to pass evaluation tests, rather than actual learning.

Yes this is exactly my worry.

 

[Mathematician]

Keep in mind tenure for teachers developed as a way to supplement academic freedom by not having educators dismissed for political reasons. Districts originally included "moral qualities" into their hiring statements; tenure was a method of enshrining job security against this abuse (and also nepotism).

Tenure should be only that: protection against abuse like politics or nepotism. If a teacher can't demonstrate before a third party that any of these factors influenced his or her employment status, the teacher should be fired.

Did I mention I'm student teaching next year?

To be perfectly honest, I see this more as an issue in the collegiate system where researchers get away with being terrible, terrible lecturers. Public education suffers because 1.) funding comes from property taxes, 2.) the US poverty level is, on average, more racialized and severe than comparable nations and 3.) politicians are appointed as school board leaders. Imagine a law or medical firm being run by the local restaurant owner.

 

[Mathematician]

By way of example, here's the best science teacher that went to my high school: Login | Facebook

His unorthodox style of treating his students like adults and pushing "sensitivity" boundaries has on numerous occasions led to some parents calling (against their students' own desires) for his retirement, but over 97% of his Physics AP students have passed the test. Since education is inescapable for political influence, I would hope that tenure could protect teachers like him from the whims of parents. Truth be told: more often than not it's the fault of parents.

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

Unfortunately, like the No Child Left Behind Act, these well intentioned pieces of legislation tend to force teachers to teach their students how to pass evaluation tests, rather than actual learning.

I would not even go so far as to call NCLB "well-intentioned." It, like many other political acts disguised under the veil of "educational reform," was a thinly-veiled contempt for teachers and their working conditions.

Tenure is designed to protect teachers from bad administrators. You always hear about the "bad teachers" out there, but you never hear about the bad administrators, who wield far more power.

Reforms certainly need to occur, but there are right ways and wrong ways to do it.

 

[AxisMundi]

In bold move, Colorado alters teacher tenure rules - Yahoo! News

This raised many questions in my mind regarding the teaching profession. I do believe that the tenure system can create an environment whereby bad teachers can become entrenched and I agree, on a philosophical level, that teachers should be evaluated on their performance. But in practice I wonder as to what the standards of performance should be based on. I am against it being just a numbers game, just an evaluation of test scores. Indeed, as much as I would like to see teachers evaluated on performance I find it difficult to come up with objective criterion for doing so. So any thought on this? What are good standards of evaluation? Should tenure be based on performance?

Teaching is as much an art as it is anything else. Which raises another question, should we reevaluate our standards for hiring teachers? Should teachers really be required to get all the education we require when there is a huge difference between having knowledge and having the ability to pass that knowledge onto others?

Speaking as a student who graduated HS over thirty years ago and has returned to college today, as a parent who put all three through school and into college themselves, and a grandparent who has seen his grandchildren off for their first days...

Back in the day, the pay wasn't all that good and the hours were long. Teachers frequently lived in the same neighborhood and it wasn't all that uncommon to say Hi to one of your teachers on the street or in the park. If you were acting up, or your scholastics weren't up to par, you might find your teacher at the front door. Parent/Teacher confrences occured after school, and work, hours.

For those fine, dedicated teachers, teaching was a career.

Now, what I see in the majority of teachers I have dealt with as a parent, teaching is a job, a 9 to 5 production job cramming what ever info will fit into young heads and hoping it doesn't leak out. That's if they can get a hold of the youngster's attention in the first place.

For that I certainly blame teacher's unions and the idea of tenure, among other factors.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I can't wait until I get tenure.

I'm gunna make that look goooooood.

 

[Panda]

Speaking as a student who graduated HS over thirty years ago and has returned to college today, as a parent who put all three through school and into college themselves, and a grandparent who has seen his grandchildren off for their first days...

Back in the day, the pay wasn't all that good and the hours were long. Teachers frequently lived in the same neighborhood and it wasn't all that uncommon to say Hi to one of your teachers on the street or in the park. If you were acting up, or your scholastics weren't up to par, you might find your teacher at the front door. Parent/Teacher confrences occured after school, and work, hours.

For those fine, dedicated teachers, teaching was a career.

Now, what I see in the majority of teachers I have dealt with as a parent, teaching is a job, a 9 to 5 production job cramming what ever info will fit into young heads and hoping it doesn't leak out. That's if they can get a hold of the youngster's attention in the first place.

For that I certainly blame teacher's unions and the idea of tenure, among other factors.

I don't think I am following you here. You think it is a bad thing that teachers are better paid and get to work the same sort of hours as everyone else?

 

[AxisMundi]

I don't think I am following you here. You think it is a bad thing that teachers are better paid and get to work the same sort of hours as everyone else?

Considering the state of education in America? Yes, I do think it's a bad thing.

If one works in a factory and pushes crappy product out the door, one doesn't get a raise and is likely to be fired.

I would certainly support a floating pay grade based on a full evaluation, but let's face it, long hours are occasionally part of one's chosen profession.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Considering the state of education in America? Yes, I do think it's a bad thing.

If one works in a factory and pushes crappy product out the door, one doesn't get a raise and is likely to be fired.

I would certainly support a floating pay grade based on a full evaluation, but let's face it, long hours are occasionally part of one's chosen profession.

In Texas, teachers are required to "push a crappy product out of the door."

 

[Panda]

Considering the state of education in America? Yes, I do think it's a bad thing.

But is the problem with the Teachers or what the teachers are being told to teach?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I agree we need reform. And rather than focusing on passing standardized tests, there needs to be a focus on improving and maintaining grades.

 

[AxisMundi]

But is the problem with the Teachers or what the teachers are being told to teach?

Both.

 

[dust1n]

For that I certainly blame teacher's unions and the idea of tenure, among other factors.

"Rules for Female Teachers" 1900, posted in one town in MA.

1. Do not get married.
2. Do not leave town at any time without permission of the school board.
3. Do not keep company with men.
4. Be home between the hours of 8 P.M. and 6 A.M.
5. Do not loiter downtown in ice cream stores.
6. Do not smoke.
7. Do not get into a carriage with any man except your father or brother.
8. Do not dress in bright colors.
9. Do not dye your hair.
10. Do not wear any dress more than two inches above the ankle.

Oh.. I'm sorry.. you were just blaming bad education on teacher's unions?

 

[AxisMundi]

"Rules for Female Teachers" 1900, posted in one town in MA.



Oh.. I'm sorry.. you were just blaming bad education on teacher's unions?

And now we start inserting fictatious ideals into my replies. That's called a "Comples Question Fallacy", I believe.

Unions had, at one time, a neccessary, and vital, duty to this Nation's work force.

Today, they have become self-serving political entities much more interested in wielding that political power than serving the best interests of their members.

Also, quoting rules from a time when women did not hold pulbic office, could not head big corperations, and could be excluded from the voting booth?

Not exactly a good example to use.

Such one-room schoolhouse rules disappeared long before teacher's unions came into play.

 

[TheKnight]

The best way to evaluate a teacher is to get the opinion of the students. Or to simply measure that actual success of the students in the world afterwards, and then ask or examine what it was about that particular teacher that contributed to the success (if at all.

I agree we need reform. And rather than focusing on passing standardized tests, there needs to be a focus on improving and maintaining grades.

Grades are often unimportant. I cannot speak for all schools, but at my school grades had nothing to do with intelligence. They had to do with who could put up with the most ********.

Often times the most intelligent students had the lowest grades (with the best test scores).

Test scores, though, are not a very good indicator either. I think general student performance and success are much greater indicators of teacher effectiveness than test scores or grades.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Often times the most intelligent students had the lowest grades (with the best test scores).

That's because they are bored with what they see as easy, and thus don't care. My oldest nephew is in this situation, and he being put into advanced classes when he starts 6th grade next year because he is so bored with school and he just isn't being challenged.

 

[TheKnight]

That's because they are bored with what they see as easy, and thus don't care. My oldest nephew is in this situation, and he being put into advanced classes when he starts 6th grade next year because he is so bored with school and he just isn't being challenged.

I wouldn't say it's as much being bored with what is easy as it is being bored with what is unnecessary. A lot of assignments in school are just plain unnecessary. And it doesn't help when your teachers agree but continue to assign it because "they have to"