Teacher: Christian faith prohibits treating transgendered students with respect and dignity

[lewisnotmiller]

The government has no right to dictate religious liberty and free speech.

So you're okay with a Satanic teacher openly proselyting in a government school?

 

[Twilight Hue]

He's a teacher. That comes with certain responsibilities and commitments in terms of treating students with respect. Said as an ex-teacher.
It is not immature to respect the wishes of a student where those wishes solely relate to the student themselves. If a kid wanted to be called 'Dave' and I persisted in calling him 'David', I'm being an arse, basically.

If that was the case and the teacher was goading the student for the sole purpose of irritating then I'm in agreement.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

He's a teacher. That comes with certain responsibilities and commitments in terms of treating students with respect. Said as an ex-teacher.
It is not immature to respect the wishes of a student where those wishes solely relate to the student themselves. If a kid wanted to be called 'Dave' and I persisted in calling him 'David', I'm being an arse, basically.

So much this. My birth certificate says "Timothy", but everyone calls me either "Tim" or other long accepted nicknames. If someone insisted on calling me "Timothy" repeatedly, especially after I'd asked him to stop, I'd take it as a deliberate attempt to offend, and I'm a 40 year old straight white guy. I can only imagine how potentially damaging such covert "not what he said, how he said it" bullying would be for a transgender teenager, and especially from an authority figure like a teacher.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

If that was the case and the teacher was goading the student for the sole purpose of irritating then I'm in agreement.

Cool. It's hard to tell from the articles whether that's what has happened or not. I have a somewhat open mind on this. I think it's at least possible though that he views the goading of the student as unavoidable collateral damage. I'd have a problem with that anyway. A teacher's first consideration should be the students, and if there is a clash between being able to do that equitably and their religion, they are betters served teaching in a religiously aligned school.

Not that I'm a fan of religiously aligned schools, but perhaps an argument for another day...

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

The government has no right to dictate religious liberty and free speech.

Um, well yes it does, actually. It's the whole "freedom of speech does not include the right to yell 'fire' in a crowded theater" thing.

 

[Twilight Hue]

You are free to continue in your callous and rude ignorance. That's your choice if you want to appear foolish and hurtful when you spew nonsense on a topic you don't understand. "Lifestyle". What garbage. Get a clue.

I can get a pretty good clue by the way you act. You are an extremely defensive and reactive person when it comes to opposing opinions on this topic.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Cool. It's hard to tell from the articles whether that's what has happened or not. I have a somewhat open mind on this. I think it's at least possible though that he views the goading of the student as unavoidable collateral damage. I'd have a problem with that anyway. A teacher's first consideration should be the students, and if there is a clash between being able to do that equitably and their religion, they are betters served teaching in a religiously aligned school.

Not that I'm a fan of religiously aligned schools, but perhaps an argument for another day...

It is.

The problem with these kind of things, is it's it's very hard to determine where a fair line plays that preserves the rights of individuals in matters that conflict with one another such as the topic here involving sexuality and religious beliefs.

I wonder if the school has a written code of conduct? I think differing and opposing views can be harmonized enough where things can become equitable when situations like this arise between a teacher and student, provided of course the right words are used to explain each other's point of view in this position without resorting to an emotional exchange of words.

 

[YeshuaRedeemed]

So you're okay with a Satanic teacher openly proselyting in a government school?

I wash my hands of you. Go in peace. My advice: If Christianity is that offensive to you, don't be a Christian, but lying is wrong. I know I am a b itch, but I am an honest one. God bless you, and have a nice day.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I wash my hands of you. Go in peace. My advice: If Christianity is that offensive to you, don't be a Christian, but lying is wrong. I know I am a b itch, but I am an honest one. God bless you, and have a nice day.

You can wash your hands of whatever you like, but don't call me a liar, and in particular don't call me a liar without having the grace to say it openly.

My point is that you're not in favour of free speech and religious freedom in all cicumstances. That's it. No lying here, and in particular not to myself.

Christianity doesn't offend me in the least. My mum, sister and some of my best friends are Christian.

Your willingness to be offended on behalf of your religion appears to be clouding your clarity here.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I can get a pretty good clue by the way you act. You are an extremely defensive and reactive person when it comes to opposing opinions on this topic.

People tend not to like being insulted, invalidated and dehumanized. I'm being a lot nicer to you than I would be otherwise. You're basically calling me a fake. People don't talk to me like that offline, just so you know.

 

[YeshuaRedeemed]

You can wash your hands of whatever you like, but don't call me a liar, and in particular don't call me a liar without having the grace to say it openly.

My point is that you're not in favour of free speech and religious freedom in all cicumstances. That's it. No lying here, and in particular not to myself.

Christianity doesn't offend me in the least. My mum, sister and some of my best friends are Christian.

Your willingness to be offended on behalf of your religion appears to be clouding your clarity here.

Free speech, and I was NOT speaking to or about you, but I hope you have a very nice day. What I say, i mean. I was refering to the poster of this thread, and am visually disabled, so I clicked on you by accident. I give up.

 

[Skwim]

Free speech, and I was NOT speaking to or about you, but I hope you have a very nice day. What I say, i mean. I was refering to the poster of this thread, and am visually disabled, so I clicked on you by accident. I give up.

So when you said

"I wash my hands of you. Go in peace. My advice: If Christianity is that offensive to you, don't be a Christian, but lying is wrong. I know I am a b itch, but I am an honest one. God bless you, and have a nice day."
​

you were referring to me, the poster of this thread. Just curious, but exactly what did I say that brought all this on?

.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Faux Biblese gives a +3 bonus on all Truthiness rolls

 

[YmirGF]

He's not. He can quit.

That's where I came round to eventually. It was obviously a matter of considerable concern to the teacher which led me to conclude his actions were likely quite deliberate. A mini Custer's Last Stand? Well, he got his 5min of notoriety. Wonder whether it was worth it? It is also unfortunate that the young person(s) involved had to go through this unnecessary event. I now think he was grandstanding and this was his little moment. He had to have realized it would draw publicity.

 

[Jumi]

Treat others as you would be treated. I bet that this will turn into an issue of how discrimination should be ok for some groups, else it would be discrimination against said groups.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Free speech, and I was NOT speaking to or about you, but I hope you have a very nice day. What I say, i mean. I was refering to the poster of this thread, and am visually disabled, so I clicked on you by accident. I give up.

Free speech?
Sure. But why do people somehow conflate 'free speech' with 'i can say whatever I want without consequence'?

Who do you mean by 'poster of this thread'? I'm sure you can see why someone quoting my post would seem to be addressing me.

Give up if you like, but I'm not that difficult to talk to, if you're here for opinion, and not an echo chamber.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

That's where I came round to eventually. It was obviously a matter of considerable concern to the teacher which led me to conclude his actions were likely quite deliberate. A mini Kuster's Last Stand? Well, he got his 5min of notoriety. Wonder whether it was worth it? It is also unfortunate that the young person(s) involved had to go through this unnecessary event. I now think he was grandstanding and this was his little moment. He had to have realized it would draw publicity.

It's hard to be sure from the evidence here. I'd suggest only that it's possible.

 

[Prestor John]

.

"High school teacher in Virginia fired for refusing to call transgender student male pronouns

A few days ago, the West Point Public School Board in Virginia voted unanimously to fire Peter Vlaming, a French teacher who had taught for seven years, because he refused to call a transgender freshman with the pronouns “he” and “him.” Vlaming said his Christian faith prohibited him from treat the student with respect and dignity.

View attachment 25939 ​

Peter Vlaming, who taught French class at West Point High School for nearly seven years, lost his job after a five-hour long public hearing he requested Thursday night.

The original complaint stemmed from a rising-9th-grade student who had transitioned and requested to be called by the male pronouns "he" and "him."

Principal Jonathan Hochman told the School Board that Vlaming refused to use the male pronouns to refer to the student because he considered it a "lie."
source​

Your thoughts on the statement that his "Christian faith prohibited him from treat[ing] the student with respect and dignity."

(A note on the thread's title. It is not a quote from the teacher.)​

.

I feel that this thread's title is completely.

Refusing to submit to an ideology you consider false is not withholding respect and dignity from anyone.

For example, I truly believe that all of Mankind are the children of God which would makes us spiritual brothers and sisters.

In my religion we refer to each other as Brother or Sister "Last name".

Could I demand that everyone I meet refer to me as Brother John?

Keep in mind, that referring to me as Brother John would cause you to operate under my beliefs concerning our spiritual relationship.

You believe that I should be able to force people to refer to me thusly?

If they don't refer to me as Brother John, I could claim they aren't treating me with respect and dignity and I could get them fired?

The idea that a person can change their sex is just as religious as my beliefs concerning the spirits of Man.

Why are you presenting such a false narrative?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I feel that this thread's title is completely.

Refusing to submit to an ideology you consider false is not withholding respect and dignity from anyone.

For example, I truly believe that all of Mankind are the children of God which would makes us spiritual brothers and sisters.

In my religion we refer to each other as Brother or Sister "Last name".

Could I demand that everyone I meet refer to me as Brother John?

Keep in mind, that referring to me as Brother John would cause you to operate under my beliefs concerning our spiritual relationship.

You believe that I should be able to force people to refer to me thusly?

If they don't refer to me as Brother John, I could claim they aren't treating me with respect and dignity and I could get them fired?

The idea that a person can change their sex is just as religious as my beliefs concerning the spirits of Man.

Why are you presenting such a false narrative?

Transgenderism is a legitimate medical condition. It's no more an ideology than diabetes is.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Transgenderism is a legitimate medical condition. It's no more an ideology than diabetes is.

No it's not a disease like diabetes.