Taoism is 'non-revealed'?

[crowfeather]

I always smile at the forum index, that has taoism described as a 'non-revealed religion'.
That's not my experience of taoism.
1: It is not a religion.
2: It is entirely revealed.

Taoism is a Way of conducting one's life, and declines to make use of the notion of 'God'.
I use the word 'God' often, but it means to me something very different than it does to anybody who is not me.

Taoism is entirely a revealed Way, in that it eagerly reveals itself to anyone seriously committed to investigating it.

In fact, if a newborn boy is raised by wolves, avoiding all human values and dogmas, he is more than likely to end up being indistinguishable from a taoist. I can not speak for girls, because I have never been one.

Taoism is, in fact, the most revealing and revealable Way there is.
Anyone who is able to see the world as the world is, will end up being a taoist.
The only reason there are so few taoists, is that humans are so unable to see anything as anything is, because they are taught, very early on, to overlay everything they experience, sense, and learn, with mental processing.

Test yourself for this: your response to reading the above is to either agree or disagree with it.
It is what it is, and you can not edit it. But you can easily classify it as what you prefer, and thus dispense with it.
This is what humans think-of as 'understanding'.
It is no such thing.

 

[shunyadragon]

I always smile at the forum index, that has taoism described as a 'non-revealed religion'.
That's not my experience of taoism.
1: It is not a religion.
2: It is entirely revealed.

Taoism is a Way of conducting one's life, and declines to make use of the notion of 'God'.
I use the word 'God' often, but it means to me something very different than it does to anybody who is not me.

Taoism is entirely a revealed Way, in that it eagerly reveals itself to anyone seriously committed to investigating it.

In fact, if a newborn boy is raised by wolves, avoiding all human values and dogmas, he is more than likely to end up being indistinguishable from a taoist. I can not speak for girls, because I have never been one.

Taoism is, in fact, the most revealing and revealable Way there is.
Anyone who is able to see the world as the world is, will end up being a taoist.
The only reason there are so few taoists, is that humans are so unable to see anything as anything is, because they are taught, very early on, to overlay everything they experience, sense, and learn, with mental processing.

Test yourself for this: your response to reading the above is to either agree or disagree with it.
It is what it is, and you can not edit it. But you can easily classify it as what you prefer, and thus dispense with it.
This is what humans think-of as 'understanding'.
It is no such thing.

I do not consider Taoism in and of itself revealed nor non-revealed, but nonetheless I consider it a religion. Whether one considers it revealed is a matter of perspective of what revealed means, If you believe what Taoism teaches it is revealed to you. It is often denied that what one believes is not a religion, and what other people believe represents religions. To me religion is simply what people believe regardless of whether it is organized, disorganized, sanforized, digitized, sanitized, denied, or individualized.

As far as Taoism declining to use the notion of God(s). That depends on how define or undefine the Source some call God(s), and I believe it is fundamental to Buddhism the Nature of the Tao cannot be defined,

When I lived in China and I found Taoism to be a very organized religion. Of course some may say this Taoism is not the true Taoism, but this is a paradox of Taoism.

 

[crowfeather]

Yes. Religious taoism isn't taoism at all. But religious taoists seem unable to distinguish the difference.
Religions place their Deity at a distance, separate. Dressing up, acting-out, doing things to please their Deity.
Taoism becomes One with Oneness, with no separation.
Or at least, they would, if they were successful at being taoists.

 

[Sunstone]

Playing with semantics.

 

[crowfeather]

Semantics are rather important to understanding anything about anything, as was noted by Confucius.
"It is important to call things by their proper names."
Which would go a long way towards explaining why modern people don't understand anything about anything, while thinking that they do.
And why nothing ever gets accomplished on internet forums.

 

[osgart]

being one with oneness and stripping one's self of the ego or individuality. The whole thing sounds awful.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Religions place their Deity at a distance, separate.

A grossly inaccurate generalisation.

 

[David T]

I always smile at the forum index, that has taoism described as a 'non-revealed religion'.
That's not my experience of taoism.
1: It is not a religion.
2: It is entirely revealed.

Taoism is a Way of conducting one's life, and declines to make use of the notion of 'God'.
I use the word 'God' often, but it means to me something very different than it does to anybody who is not me.

Taoism is entirely a revealed Way, in that it eagerly reveals itself to anyone seriously committed to investigating it.

In fact, if a newborn boy is raised by wolves, avoiding all human values and dogmas, he is more than likely to end up being indistinguishable from a taoist. I can not speak for girls, because I have never been one.

Taoism is, in fact, the most revealing and revealable Way there is.
Anyone who is able to see the world as the world is, will end up being a taoist.
The only reason there are so few taoists, is that humans are so unable to see anything as anything is, because they are taught, very early on, to overlay everything they experience, sense, and learn, with mental processing.

Test yourself for this: your response to reading the above is to either agree or disagree with it.
It is what it is, and you can not edit it. But you can easily classify it as what you prefer, and thus dispense with it.
This is what humans think-of as 'understanding'.
It is no such thing.

Agreed. There is a passage in the old testament of Israel exiting civilization and becoming nomadic for 40 years in the
wild-erness. Its there they came back into direct contact tribally with nature. As soon as they settle down into a "civilized" city is that we have prophets out side the city hurtling damnations onto the city for losing sight of nature, of God, which for them is exactly the same thing. It appears civilization is great for population expansion it's terrible for keeping it real but that is "normal"!! The synestethetic quality of Lao tzu(s) writings on the Tao and heraclitus writings on the logos are very very similar.

 

[David T]

I do not consider Taoism in and of itself revealed nor non-revealed, but nonetheless I consider it a religion. Whether one considers it revealed is a matter of perspective of what revealed means, If you believe what Taoism teaches it is revealed to you. It is often denied that what one believes is not a religion, and what other people believe represents religions. To me religion is simply what people believe regardless of whether it is organized, disorganized, sanforized, digitized, sanitized, denied, or individualized.

As far as Taoism declining to use the notion of God(s). That depends on how define or undefine the Source some call God(s), and I believe it is fundamental to Buddhism the Nature of the Tao cannot be defined,

When I lived in China and I found Taoism to be a very organized religion. Of course some may say this Taoism is not the true Taoism, but this is a paradox of Taoism.

Shuny you are obviously aspergers with a brain of a mechanical engineer so you are not stupid. But what I would like to know is why the insistent fantasy you actually understand Taoism or even the logos? Clearly the Tao was not written by aspergers at all. What you " believe" you understand it? Your distinct neurology has zero to do with it and yet religion is filled with aspergers pontificating on religion and ancient texts clearly not written by aspergers or theologians. I don't get it at all its bizaaro.

 

[shunyadragon]

Shuny you are obviously aspergers with a brain of a mechanical engineer so you are not stupid. But what I would like to know is why the insistent fantasy you actually understand Taoism or even the logos? Clearly the Tao was not written by aspergers at all. What you " believe" you understand it? Your distinct neurology has zero to do with it and yet religion is filled with aspergers pontificating on religion and ancient texts clearly not written by aspergers or theologians. I don't get it at all its bizaaro.

I never claimed to completly understand Taoism. In fact I challenged crowfeathers claim to understand and define Taoism. I added it is a paradox in Taoism to claim what is and what is not the 'Source' some call God(s), and the Taoist call the Tao, and as others have objected to his claim to generalize what is and is not God. I also question his claim to define what is and is not Taoism, and whether Taoism is a religion or not.

It appears reading comprehension is a problem on your part.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

***MOVED TO RELIGIOUS DEBATES***

 

[David T]

I never claimed to completly understand Taoism. In fact I challenged crowfeathers claim to understand and define Taoism. I added it is a paradox in Taoism to claim what is and what is not the 'Source' some call God(s), and the Taoist call the Tao, and as others have objected to his claim to generalize what is and is not God. I also question his claim to define what is and is not Taoism, and whether Taoism is a religion or not.

It appears reading comprehension is a problem on your part.

It states clearly "what ever is said to be the Tao is not the Tao." "The logos is common yet everyone seems to have there own private understanding". These statements are identical. The second quote is by heraclitus whom is the genisis of understanding in the new testament in regards to the logos that's a historical fact as articulated by Justin Martre. But somewhere along the way its become a thing of the intellect and modern Christianity is most certainly not heraclitean, but Pythagoreanism. Taoism and heraclitus are not philosophers they see, like a musician whom plays an instrument. Philosophy are listeners pretending to play instruments like air guitar. You are very smart shuny, but it's your weakness as as well.

 

[shunyadragon]

It states clearly "what ever is said to be the Tao is not the Tao." "The logos is common yet everyone seems to have there own private understanding". These statements are identical. The second quote is by heraclitus whom is the genisis of understanding in the new testament in regards to the logos that's a historical fact as articulated by Justin Martre. But somewhere along the way its become a thing of the intellect and modern Christianity is most certainly not heraclitean, but Pythagoreanism. Taoism and heraclitus are not philosophers they see, like a musician whom plays an instrument. Philosophy are listeners pretending to play instruments like air guitar. You are very smart shuny, but it's your weakness as as well.

This is drifting off the subject of the thread. Nonetheless you misrepresented my position concerning Taoism.

 

[crowfeather]

The intellect will always take issue with anything it does not consider intellectual.
Taoism is not an intellectual pursuit. It is the revelation that life is not an intellectual pursuit.

 

[Jumi]

Revealed religion means that was given by a supernatural deity, handed down to people. For Taoism I think you could argue either way if it's revealed or not, depending on how you view Lao-Tze. If you think of him as one of the three pure ones incarnating to teach the truth to people then Taoism is a revealed religion.

 

[crowfeather]

What revealed Lao Tzu's wisdom to Lao Tzu? I conclude Reality, itself.
It may reveal itself to anyone able to discover it. Very few, apparently.

 

[Sunstone]

As I understand it, a revealed religion is traditionally called a revealed religion because it is a religion whose truths would be inaccessible to people were it not for someone's (e.g. Moses', Jesus', or Mohammad's) revelations of those truths. A non-revealed religion is a religion whose truths are accessible to people without anyone's revelations of those truths. Taoism is a non-revealed religion because you don't need anyone -- even Lao-Tze -- to reveal its truths to you in order for you to become aware of them. Of course, if you're going to play semantics about it, like the OP does, then Taoism is a "revealed" religion. What hogwash!

 

[crowfeather]

What hogwash!

That's more or less how I feel about what is often referred-to as 'modern human civilization'.

 

[shunyadragon]

What revealed Lao Tzu's wisdom to Lao Tzu? I conclude Reality, itself.
It may reveal itself to anyone able to discover it. Very few, apparently.

You are arguing an exclusive club here, your own club, which I do not consider the spirit of Taoism.

 

[crowfeather]

Arguing isn't something I do. Why would I be interested in what you consider to be the spirit of taoism?
Nothing I post here is my idea. I don't do ideas. I do essential essence.