syncretism and the comparative religions of the world

[URAVIP2ME]

Notice I put a question mark concerning Paul and the Trinity can be interpreted different ways, but nonetheless:
Philippians 2:5–11
5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,1 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,2 emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant,3 being born in the likeness of men. becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
1 Corinthians 6:11
And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

I find the pre-human heavenly Jesus would have to 'empty himself' in order for his God to send Jesus to Earth.
Since God is from and to everlasting (Psalms 90:2) then God is immortal and death proofed.
The ' every tongue ' confessing Jesus is Lord to God's glory ' does Not make Jesus as his own God.
Even the King James at Psalms 110 makes a distinction.
Please notice there are two (2) LORD/Lord's mentioned there:
The LORD in ALL Upper-Case letters stands for LORD God (Tetragrammaton)
The Lord in some lower-case letters stands for Lord Jesus (No Tetragrammaton)
The '.... and by the spirit of our God ' is by God's spirit (Psalms 104:30), and Not by Jesus' spirit.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

There is no spiritual tradition that does not lean heavily on older traditions and older (differing) versions of the same tradition.
In that sense they are all one grand human family tree of spiritual traditions.
When traditions have developed their holy scriptures they will often view those scriptures as an independent unique base for their tradition sometimes calling them "divinely inspired" or "coming from God".
So the realisation that all spiritual traditions somehow form one familytree of human spiritual traditions is mostly absent.
To speak of syncretism is misleading because it suggests the idea that spiritual traditions start out as independent 'pure' creations and are then somehow mixed by others creating 'mongrel faiths'. This is just as nonsensical as the belief that humankind once had "pure" races that have only in more recent times been mixed by the effects of migration.

In Scripture I find the 'developed traditions' can trace mankind's religious family tree to its base in ancient Babylon.
As the people migrated away from ancient Babylon they took with them their non-biblical religious ideas and practices and spread them world wide into a greater religious Babylon or Babylon the Great. That's mankind's family tree.
Whereas the religious roots which Jesus believed in did Not originate in ancient Babylon but with his God.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

In Scripture I find the 'developed traditions' can trace mankind's religious family tree to its base in ancient Babylon.
As the people migrated away from ancient Babylon they took with them their non-biblical religious ideas and practices and spread them world wide into a greater religious Babylon or Babylon the Great. That's mankind's family tree.
Whereas the religious roots which Jesus believed in did Not originate in ancient Babylon but with his God.

You seem to be defining religion as religion of settled civilizations. The truth is that there was plenty of religion in hunter gatherer tribal societies, animistic religions were our earliest base upon which the rest are based.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

You seem to be defining religion as religion of settled civilizations. The truth is that there was plenty of religion in hunter gatherer tribal societies, animistic religions were our earliest base upon which the rest are based.

As the people migrated away from ancient Babylon does Not mean they all remained in settled civilizations.
Basically, what the Genesis people of ancient Babylon believed they spread worldwide into a greater religious Babylon in belief and thinking, thus creating a Babylon the Great in similar or overlapping religious ideas.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

As the people migrated away from ancient Babylon does Not mean they all remained in settled civilizations.
Basically, what the Genesis people of ancient Babylon believed they spread worldwide into a greater religious Babylon in belief and thinking, thus creating a Babylon the Great in similar or overlapping religious ideas.

Why are you ignoring the animistic religions that existed prior to Babylon in tribal hunter gatherer societies?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Why are you ignoring the animistic religions that existed prior to Babylon in tribal hunter gatherer societies?

The reason I particularly mentioned ancient Babylon of Genesis chapter 10 is because of the people leaving Babylon and moving elsewhere. They took with them their Babylonian beliefs and spread them world wide into a greater religious Babylon or Babylon the Great. That Babylonian impact is why we see similar or overlapping beliefs spread throughout the world religions today.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

You seem to be defining religion as religion of settled civilizations. The truth is that there was plenty of religion in hunter gatherer tribal societies, animistic religions were our earliest base upon which the rest are based.

I was focused on ancient Babylon. That one single civilization.
The other societies did Not migrate away from ancient Babylon as did the people of ancient Babylon did.
The Babylonians spread their religious ideas and practices throughout the world by moving away from Babylon.
Even astrology traces its beginning back to ancient Babylon.
I am curious as to what tribal societies or animistic religions you have in mind as to their particular connection today.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The reason I particularly mentioned ancient Babylon of Genesis chapter 10 is because of the people leaving Babylon and moving elsewhere. They took with them their Babylonian beliefs and spread them world wide into a greater religious Babylon or Babylon the Great. That Babylonian impact is why we see similar or overlapping beliefs spread throughout the world religions today.

Undoubtedly Babylonian religion influenced the subsequent religions in the areas surrounding. But then again, polytheism itself is a child of animism, which is why I brought up the animism of the hunter gatherer tribes that predated the Agricultural Revolution.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

This idea that "polytheism is the child of animism" is just the old, discredited Hegelian/Marxist paradigm of the 19th century. They created a theoretical evolutionary sequence of fetishism - animism - polytheism- henotheism - monotheism and then tried to justify it by looking for "survivals" among "savages". Unless you have a time machine, you can have no idea about the beliefs of people before the invention of writing, let alone before the neolithic.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Undoubtedly Babylonian religion influenced the subsequent religions in the areas surrounding. But then again, polytheism itself is a child of animism, which is why I brought up the animism of the hunter gatherer tribes that predated the Agricultural Revolution.

Even the modern-day monstrosity called 'Christendom' ( apostate Christianity ) can trace its customs or traditions back to ancient Babylon. Just teaching them as being Scripture but Not found in Scripture.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Unless you have a time machine, you can have no idea about the beliefs of people before the invention of writing, let alone before the neolithic.

I never looked at the Bible as being a time machine, but in Scripture we can have an idea about ancient people's beliefs at that time frame such as found in chapter 10 of Genesis.
I wonder if writing can be termed as an invention. As per Genesis 5 it says about the ' book of generations ' of Adam.
So, there was a book of Adam's history preserved in the Bible. Noah could have taken writings of Adam on the Ark with him, and then those writings were passed down to Moses who recorded such history for us in the Bible.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

You seem to be defining religion as religion of settled civilizations. The truth is that there was plenty of religion in hunter gatherer tribal societies, animistic religions were our earliest base upon which the rest are based.

I think what was perishable would have been destroyed in the Flood of Noah's day, but of what was Not perishable, then some remains of that pre-flood corrupted world could exist.

 

[siti]

Comparing the beliefs of the different religions of the world and the syncretic nature of religion.

What makes a religion syncretic? Which religions may be considered Syncretic religions?

syn·cre·tism - the amalgamation or attempted amalgamation of different religions, cultures, or schools of thought.

I'm thinking that Caodaism might be a useful example to study - I doubt there are (m)any adherents on here to object to the "charge" of syncretism - which even patently syncretic religions seem to object to.

Personally, I don't see syncretism as a "dirty word" - I think taking the "best" bits of more ancient traditions and melding them into a worldview more appropriate for the current age is a perfectly sensible and responsible thing to do. The problem arises when that 'syncretism' is deemed to be the authoritative 'final word'. I'm all for syncretism - as long as we're honest about it.

 

[shunyadragon]

This is what the academics teach, to be sure, but I think I would not see a mere shared vocabulary as evidence of syncretism. For instance two people in this day and age can claim to be both Christian and God fearing and be as separate from each other as the East is from the West. That is the way it has always been with religion. Just because the semites used a shared semitic vocabulary with the Canaanites does not mean that e.g. they believed that God had a wife and a son. The bible shows no such polytheistic elements. I agee however that there is ample evidence of relapse into Canaanite practices throughout Israel's history, but that is the reason we have the New Testament.

Shared vocabulary is only apart of the relationship. The other is shared scripture where much of the Pentateuch can find the Creation legend and parts Genesis with terminology from the Ugarit/Canaanite material from the cuneiform tablets. Part of the problem is the distinct lack of Hebrew texts of the Torah nor the Tanakh before ~700 BCE.

Many references in Genesis and even the Psalms describe a polytheistic or henotheist beliefs among the Hebrews. I acknowledge that Monotheism displaced the henotheism and polytheism at about the time the Hebrews returned from exile.

The thread on the Ugarit/Canaanite/ Babylonian cuneiform tablets, and there are many academic sources that also deal with this

 

[shunyadragon]

I think what was perishable would have been destroyed in the Flood of Noah's day, but of what was Not perishable, then some remains of that pre-flood corrupted world could exist.

The elephant in the room is whether there is any evidence for any such flood, and there is none. The other is the Origin of the Creation myths of Genesis, and the Noah Flood mythology from Babylonian, Ugarit/Canaanite cuneiform tablets that trace the flood mythology to the flooding of the Tigris Euphrates Valley flood events based on archaeology.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Even the modern-day monstrosity called 'Christendom' ( apostate Christianity ) can trace its customs or traditions back to ancient Babylon. Just teaching them as being Scripture but Not found in Scripture.

You're not addressing my point.

 

[shunyadragon]

Here are examples of personal syncretism
Survey: More Americans mix, match religions

I consider this syncretism on the personal level, which is significant not only today but in ancient history at times like in Rome.

An example of personal syncretism on the institutional level that encourages this on a humanist basis is the Unitarian Universalists.

The category of suncretism that I referred to is when a religion develops doctrine and dogma that is syncretistic in nature.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I think what was perishable would have been destroyed in the Flood of Noah's day, but of what was Not perishable, then some remains of that pre-flood corrupted world could exist.

Yes, I'm sure that i.e. fossilized dino bones from millions of years before the localized flood in the Levant happened would not have been destroyed and would continue to be found today.

 

[shunyadragon]

I consider this syncretism on the personal level, which is significant not only today but in ancient history at times like in Rome.

An example of personal syncretism on the institutional level that encourages this on a humanist basis is the Unitarian Universalists.

The category of suncretism that I referred to is when a religion develops doctrine and dogma that is syncretistic in nature.

. . . also syncretistic in nature would be adopting beliefs, doctrine and dogma from other religions and belief systems.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Yes, I'm sure that i.e. fossilized dino bones from millions of years before the localized flood in the Levant happened would not have been destroyed and would continue to be found today.

I find Scripture teaches the Flood of Noah's day was Not a local Flood but a deluge over the Earth.
Those fossilized bones survived because they were already fossilized.